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Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

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Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot) 

side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right 

is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.



What have others experienced?



So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to 

try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire 

off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the 

floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet 

liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of 

the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and 

therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake 

wear had been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would 

have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had 

happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for 

that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person 

has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since 

these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would 

expect  that they should have some quality control in their mfg to 

eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison  with the 

inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that  they are 

'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the  shoulder of the 

brake material that holds them  was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway 

replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do 

your conditionals or change tires.



Deems Davis

N519PJ

www.deemsrv10.com

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours... and the pilot side was worse than the other side.  At the same time I installed air stop tubes.  Guess It's getting time to get an order together for tires.  Brakes looked good.

 Which pads did you order?

 Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?

 Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for flying.  Just enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground.  Going up tomorrow though.

 Don McDonald



--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>

Subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14 PM



 --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net (deemsdavis(at)cox.net)>



I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot) side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right is also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.



What have others experienced?



So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes to try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the left tire off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad dropped to the floor! It appears that the shoulder that is supposed to hold the rivet liner to the pad let go, and the rivet heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk area. Fortunately there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement in the brake when activated. But, if the brake wear had  been greater, there's a possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had happened on landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for that ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight. since these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland, I would expect  that they should have some quality control in their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and comparison  with the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets, it appears that  they are 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and possibly the  shoulder of the brake material that holds them  was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway replacement pads on on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do your conditionals or change tires.



Deems atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/=               - MATRONICS cs.com/" ;               -Matt Dralle, List Admin==========





	


           [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Same for me Deems.....I called Van's and Ken Scott said you and I need to lose weight....actually my landings are so sweet that I still have the little nibs on the tire after almost 80 hours 



Rick

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

John G. Cumins

President

 

JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider



--

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Rick



It is not that you need to loose weight cause if that was the issue the wear

would be in the inside on the outside.  Outside wear is very common on

spring steel gear give it time and it might get better as the gear gets more

wear and tare on it.  Either that Vans needs to correct the axel angle on

the gear leg it self.



John G. Cumins

President

 

JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider



--

ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:40 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Not my issue!!!! Ken Scott or aka...the ego deflator..told me that...not

really...just thought it was funny that both Deems and I had tire wear on

the left more than the right...you still coming in on the 20th?



Rick



--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

air stop tubes came with the kit.

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don  McDonald

Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:52 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Uneven tire wear and  brake pad separation

                   Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours...        and the pilot side was worse than the other side.  At the same time I        installed air stop tubes.  Guess It's getting time to get an order        together for tires.  Brakes looked good.

       Which pads did you order?

       Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?

       Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for        flying.  Just enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground.         Going up tomorrow though.

       Don McDonald

--- On Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis        <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> wrote:

        	  Quote: 	

From:          Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>

Subject: Uneven          tire wear and brake pad separation

To:          rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14          PM

         --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis          <deemsdavis(at)cox.net (deemsdavis(at)cox.net)>

I've          been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left( pilot) side          tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the tire, the Right is          also showing wear on the outside, but not as extreme.

What have          others experienced?

So today, I pulled the wheels off and          reversed the tires and tubes to try and get some more wear out of the          tires. When pulling the left tire off the axel, the brake lining for the          inboard brake pad dropped to the floor! It appears that the shoulder          that is supposed to hold the rivet liner to the pad let go, and the          rivet heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk area. Fortunately          there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement in the brake          when activated. But, if the brake wear had been greater, there's a          possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and jammed it self          against the brake disc. If this had happened on landing and braking, I          wouldn't have wanted to be along for that ride. Checking with the locals          this is a problem that one person has seen when the rivets holding the          liners are set too tight. since these were the parts that came with the          kit from Cleveland, I would expect  that they should have some          quality control in their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection          and comparison  with the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner          rivets, it appears that  they are 'deeper' into the countersunk          area , and possibly the  shoulder of the brake material that holds          them  was thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway replacement pads on          on there way. Something to keep in mind when you do your conditionals or          change tires.

Deems atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"          target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/=                        - MATRONICS cs.com/" ;                        -Matt Dralle, List          Admin==========

[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

After 750 hours our tires still wear on the outside.  The tires sit fairly straight when on the ground, but most of the wear comes from the little squeek when the tires go from 0-60kts at touchdown.  When flying, the outside of the tire is lower than the inside.  The more landings you do, the more your tires will wear.  We just got about 150+ hours on the outside and just rotated them to the inside.  The nose tire was just replaced.  How have people been seeing the wear on the nose?  It should be much less than the mains, or course, unless you get a bad shimmy, but I don't remember if we have changed that before or not.  I'd have to go back and check through the logs.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On Jan 13, 2010, at 9:19 PM, John Cumins wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Rick

 

 It is not that you need to loose weight cause if that was the issue the wear

 would be in the inside on the outside.  Outside wear is very common on

 spring steel gear give it time and it might get better as the gear gets more

 wear and tare on it.  Either that Vans needs to correct the axel angle on

 the gear leg it self.

 

 John G. Cumins

 President

 

 JC'S Interactive Systems

 2499 B1 Martin Rd

 Fairfield Ca 94533

 707-425-7100

 707-425-7576 Fax

 

 Your Total Technology Solution Provider

 

 --

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Too bad Deems is flying, maybe he could come up with a way to pre-accelerate the tires to landing speed for smoother landings with less tire wear.  Heh.



--

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Thanks all for the feedback re tires. It appears that uneven outside 

wear is the 'norm'. I wonder if we're all landing left wheel 1st? Or if 

Van's has a slight error in the gear weldment? I reject Rick's 

hypothesis regarding 'unequal weight distribution'   .  I've got em 

flipped and will watch closer for the next period. I've also had a 

couple of positive recommendations for retreads for future replacements.

I haven't worked on Alaska, my hangar neighbor from AK just returned, so 

I'll have to ping him.

I don't want to make everyone green, but it's 70 deg and CAVU here in 

PHX. 



Deems Davis

N519PJ

www.deemsrv10.com



Don McDonald wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours... 

 and the pilot side was worse than the other side.  At the same time I 

 installed air stop tubes.  Guess It's getting time to get an order 

 together for tires.  Brakes looked good.

 Which pads did you order?

 Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?

 Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for 

 flying.  Just enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground.  Going up 

 tomorrow though.

 Don McDonald



 --- On *Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis(at)cox.net>/* wrote:

     From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>

     Subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14 PM



     

     <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis(at)cox.net>>



     I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left(

     pilot) side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the

     tire, the Right is also showing wear on the outside, but not as

     extreme.



     What have others experienced?



     So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes

     to try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the

     left tire off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad

     dropped to the floor! It appears that the shoulder that is

     supposed to hold the rivet liner to the pad let go, and the rivet

     heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk area. Fortunately

     there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement in the

     brake when activated. But, if the brake wear had been greater,

     there's a possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and

     jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had happened on

     landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for that

     ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person

     has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight.

     since these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland,

     I would expect  that they should have some quality control in

     their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and

     comparison  with the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets,

     it appears that  they are 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and

     possibly the  shoulder of the brake material that holds them  was

     thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway replacement pads on on there

     way. Something to keep in mind when you do your conditionals or

     change tires.



     Deems atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"

     target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/=               - MATRONICS

     cs.com/" ;               -Matt Dralle, List Admin==========





 *

 *

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

I rotate inner to outer one annual condition inspection, then exchange  

left & right next annual and repeat inner to outer at the next one.



Turn nose wheel around each annual.



Works ok to keep all wear about equal.



Remember on inner to outer, be careful and dust up the tube well and  

partially inflate it to keep from pinching the tube (learned that one  

the hard way.....)



grumpy



On Jan 14, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Deems Davis wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks all for the feedback re tires. It appears that uneven outside  

 wear is the 'norm'. I wonder if we're all landing left wheel 1st? Or  

 if Van's has a slight error in the gear weldment? I reject Rick's  

 hypothesis regarding 'unequal weight distribution'   .  I've got  

 em flipped and will watch closer for the next period. I've also had  

 a couple of positive recommendations for retreads for future  

 replacements.

 I haven't worked on Alaska, my hangar neighbor from AK just  

 returned, so I'll have to ping him.

 I don't want to make everyone green, but it's 70 deg and CAVU here  

 in PHX. 



 Deems Davis

 N519PJ

 www.deemsrv10.com



 Don McDonald wrote:

> Deems, You did better than I did.... I switched mine at 90 hours...  

> and the pilot side was worse than the other side.  At the same time  

> I installed air stop tubes.  Guess It's getting time to get an  

> order together for tires.  Brakes looked good.

> Which pads did you order?

> Any word on the Alaska trip you hinted about?

> Weather here in the SAC area has been terrible... at least for  

> flying.  Just enough overcast/fog to keep you on the ground.  Going  

> up tomorrow though.

> Don McDonald

>

> --- On *Wed, 1/13/10, Deems Davis /<deemsdavis(at)cox.net>/* wrote:

>    From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>

>    Subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

>    To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>    Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 5:14 PM

>

>    

>    <http://us.mc537.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=deemsdavis(at)cox.net>>

>

>    I've been watching the tire wear, and after 110 hrs, the left(

>    pilot) side tire is showing extreme wear on the outside of the

>    tire, the Right is also showing wear on the outside, but not as

>    extreme.

>

>    What have others experienced?

>

>    So today, I pulled the wheels off and reversed the tires and tubes

>    to try and get some more wear out of the tires. When pulling the

>    left tire off the axel, the brake lining for the inboard brake pad

>    dropped to the floor! It appears that the shoulder that is

>    supposed to hold the rivet liner to the pad let go, and the rivet

>    heads were "floating" inside of the countersunk area. Fortunately

>    there is minimal brake wear, and therefore little movement in the

>    brake when activated. But, if the brake wear had been greater,

>    there's a possibility that the pad/liner would have moved and

>    jammed it self against the brake disc. If this had happened on

>    landing and braking, I wouldn't have wanted to be along for that

>    ride. Checking with the locals this is a problem that one person

>    has seen when the rivets holding the liners are set too tight.

>    since these were the parts that came with the kit from Cleveland,

>    I would expect  that they should have some quality control in

>    their mfg to eliminate/minimize this. Upon inspection and

>    comparison  with the inboard rivets to the outboard .liner rivets,

>    it appears that  they are 'deeper' into the countersunk area , and

>    possibly the  shoulder of the brake material that holds them  was

>    thinner and possibly weaker. Anyway replacement pads on on there

>    way. Something to keep in mind when you do your conditionals or

>    change tires.

>

>    Deems atronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"

>    target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/=               - MATRONICS

>    cs.com/" ;               -Matt Dralle, List Admin==========

>

>

> *

> *

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Some pilots have better CG than other skinny pilots.  The manufacturing

error built into the gear leg, now that is something for Ken Scott to

wax on incessantly.



John

do not archive



--

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Which way does the wind blow at your home airport? e.g., do you do more landings with a crosswind from the left, than from the right? Also, where is your hangar with respect to the usual runway? Are you making mostly left turns?



As others have noted, wear on the outside of the tires is due to the spring gear leg,which hangs low prior to touchdown. See the same thing with spring gear Cessnas.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:48 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

Rick



Yep I sure am will arrive about noon so I have the 20 and 21 afternoons

free.  Shoot me a e-mail off list and we can get together on of those

afternoons.



John

--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:39 pm Post subject: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

If we actually think about it.... if the gear were perfectly straight, we would simply wear out the center of the tire.... and then we're done.  The way it is now, we wear out mostly a part of the tire that would never get used, and then we get to turn them around and it's a brand new part of the tire again.  What the hell are we bitching about!

 Don McDonald



--- On Thu, 1/14/10, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu>

Subject: Re: Uneven tire wear and brake pad separation

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 11:08 AM



 --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>



Which way does the wind blow at your home airport? e.g., do you do more landings with a crosswind from the left, than from the right? Also, where is your hangar with respect to the usual runway? Are you making mostly left turns?



As others have noted, wear on the outside of the tires is due to the spring gear leg,which hangs low prior to touchdown. See the same thing with spring gear Cessnas.



--------

Bob Turner

RV-10 QB





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281509#28150om/Navigator?RV10-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?              - MATRONICS WEB FORUM;               -Matt Dralle, List Admin==========





	


         [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

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