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tclongo(at)att.net
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 Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: 582 fuel system |
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Gang: It is funny how so many different opinions come up on some subjects,
that is a good thing. Because one is not the same as the other doesn't mean
it is the wrong or right one. I read and make my own decision with all of
the input. I heard all of the negative reasons for not having a series boost
pump. Here are mine on the positive: Like John says it gives you another
chance, it also will keep a vapor lock problem at bay when it is put near
fuel supply as a pusher, a small air leak on a fuel pump pulling fuel could
be a big problem but having a boost pump pushing with the same air leak will
give you plenty of fuel, I know from experience where I had a small air leak
that did not leak fuel but put allot of air in fuel line and turning on
boost pump cleared the air bubbles. I like the idea of having a second
chance more than the complicity of the extra pump in line. If your fuel
filter clogs enough to not let you get full power the boost pump will give
you enough you probably will and can make a safe landing. This is my take, I
am sure it will get picked apart. Tom
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: 582 fuel system |
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Morning, Larry/Gang:
Put another log on the fire.
The Facet is a continuous duty pump.
Not gonna hurt a thing to leave it on all the time.
I turn mine on and off so I won't become bored on long flights. 
Probably habit more than anything else.
john h
[quote]
We of course have had this discussion almost as many time as Sea Foam, and I generally keep out of it, but I am wondering why do most of you feel the facet is only useable as a boost pump?
Larry, (forgetful but honest, even on a short winter day)
[b]
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: 582 fuel system |
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Hi All,
I may as well add my thoughts to what every one else believes. My
facett is mounted below the fuel tanks and the pulse pump is mounted
above the engine , HKS.
The facet is wired through my master switch and is on all the time. I
have never thought to check to see if the pulse pump works , I suppose
it would be easy enough to
check , as the mags are not wired through the master, so If i turn off
the master the engine still runs. Think I'll do that about once a
month from now on.
Because I had a large in flight fuel leak due to a rotten fuel line
that was about a year old, I do always turn on the facet and check
for fuel leaks as part of my preflight.
My friend in the insurance business ,once told me that it is
impossible to buy enough insurance to cover every possible event , buy
enough so you can feel confortable , then relax and enjoy life.
I try to apply that thought to my flying.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar 2
Brownville , TX it's finally getting warmer here 62f
On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:51 AM, Tom Longo wrote:
[quote] Gang: It is funny how so many different opinions come up on some
subjects,
that is a good thing. Because one is not the same as the other
doesn't mean
it is the wrong or right one. I read and make my own decision with
all of
the input. I heard all of the negative reasons for not having a
series boost
pump. Here are mine on the positive: Like John says it gives you
another
chance, it also will keep a vapor lock problem at bay when it is put
near
fuel supply as a pusher, a small air leak on a fuel pump pulling
fuel could
be a big problem but having a boost pump pushing with the same air
leak will
give you plenty of fuel, I know from experience where I had a small
air leak
that did not leak fuel but put allot of air in fuel line and turning
on
boost pump cleared the air bubbles. I like the idea of having a second
chance more than the complicity of the extra pump in line. If your
fuel
filter clogs enough to not let you get full power the boost pump
will give
you enough you probably will and can make a safe landing. This is my
take, I
am sure it will get picked apart. Tom
--
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: 582 fuel system |
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Tom,
There is another consideration. If you use a facet pump, you pressurize the
whole line from the down close to the tank and up to the engine. If you are
using a Mikuni pump close to the engine, all the line below the pump is
sucking. If you get a leak below the Mikuni where it is the only pump, you
will get bubbles and if it gets bad enough the fan stops. If the same
happens to the line above the facet, the fan may keep running, but you may
have fuel in the cockpit area and or spraying on the engine.
Luckly, the probability of this happening is somewhere around the failure
rate of the Mikuni and/or facet pump. But I believe I would find it less
stressful to put the plane down with a silent engine, rather than have to
turn off the engine and put it down with a smelly cockpit or an engine
fire.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
At 09:51 AM 1/14/10 -0500, you wrote:
| Quote: | Gang: It is funny how so many different opinions come up on some subjects,
that is a good thing. Because one is not the same as the other doesn't mean
it is the wrong or right one. I read and make my own decision with all of
the input. I heard all of the negative reasons for not having a series boost
pump. Here are mine on the positive: Like John says it gives you another
chance, it also will keep a vapor lock problem at bay when it is put near
fuel supply as a pusher, a small air leak on a fuel pump pulling fuel could
be a big problem but having a boost pump pushing with the same air leak will
give you plenty of fuel, I know from experience where I had a small air leak
that did not leak fuel but put allot of air in fuel line and turning on
boost pump cleared the air bubbles. I like the idea of having a second
chance more than the complicity of the extra pump in line. If your fuel
filter clogs enough to not let you get full power the boost pump will give
you enough you probably will and can make a safe landing. This is my take, I
am sure it will get picked apart. Tom
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tclongo(at)att.net
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: 582 fuel system |
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Good point Jack,
But now I have the option of not turning on the boost pump and making a nice
dead-stick landing if in a suitable area or turning on pump and getting to a
suitable area to land in and then shutting down the pump and landing. The
pump is there just for quick prime on start up and back up if needed.
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: 582 fuel system |
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| jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: | Tom,
There is another consideration. If you use a facet pump, you pressurize the
whole line from the down close to the tank and up to the engine. If you are
using a Mikuni pump close to the engine, all the line below the pump is
sucking. If you get a leak below the Mikuni where it is the only pump, you
will get bubbles and if it gets bad enough the fan stops. If the same
happens to the line above the facet, the fan may keep running, but you may
have fuel in the cockpit area and or spraying on the engine.
Luckly, the probability of this happening is somewhere around the failure
rate of the Mikuni and/or facet pump. But I believe I would find it less
stressful to put the plane down with a silent engine, rather than have to
turn off the engine and put it down with a smelly cockpit or an engine
fire.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
|
Good point. That is why I like 3003-0 1/4" soft aluminum tubing from Aircraft Spruce for 98% of the fuel lines. (& it's cheaper than Tygon) I use Tygon only to connect from the aluminum tubing to the Bing itself, and that is easy to see and get to & change it annually. Use Gates rubber fuel line to connect from the tank & fuel pump to the aluminum tube, etc. Pad the aluminum tube throughout its runs with standoffs and short sections of rubber tubing everywhere it comes close to structure. Do it right the first time and that part of your system ought to last the life of your aircraft, with only the need to replace the rubber sections annually & inspect the rest. Fuel lines are one area where the traditional ultralight/dirt bike techniques are just not good enough.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: 582 fuel system |
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| Richard Pike wrote: |
Good point. That is why I like 3003-0 1/4" soft aluminum tubing from Aircraft Spruce for 98% of the fuel lines. (& it's cheaper than Tygon) I use Tygon only to connect from the aluminum tubing to the Bing itself, and that is easy to see and get to & change it annually. Use Gates rubber fuel line to connect from the tank & fuel pump to the aluminum tube, etc. Pad the aluminum tube throughout its runs with standoffs and short sections of rubber tubing everywhere it comes close to structure. Do it right the first time and that part of your system ought to last the life of your aircraft, with only the need to replace the rubber sections annually & inspect the rest. Fuel lines are one area where the traditional ultralight/dirt bike techniques are just not good enough.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) |
I tried using tubing like this on my ultralight once and it wasn't too successful.
There were always twice as many connections to have to pull tubing off of - one at the carb/fuel pump etc. and the other at the metal tubing. Also I somehow always managed to damage or bend the tubing trying to get the little pieces of line off when I changed them.
I was going to try regular steel line next but just decided to go back to all tygothane in the interest of simplicity (and I just wanted to get the plane flying again . That was about 9 years ago and I havn't left that method since. I use tygothane and brass T fittings throughout on my titan. Changing the lines yearly is an about 1/2 hour job.
If I ever get an ASTM compliant motor with the fittings and such I'll definitely go with ASTM fittings and aeroquip line. That's really the right way to do it....
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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