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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: From Van's on the door SB |
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Sealpak is one vendor. I don't recall if Sacramento Sky Ranch or
Spruce had it. Be prepared for hazmat fee, as it contains enough
Toluene to have flash point around 90.
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
[quote]
Thanks, Kelly. Where can I find that CS3204 A-2?
Jack Phillips
#40610
Raleigh, NC
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: From Van's on the door SB |
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Build it to fly it is my first goal but I'm not going to forsake resale value in the event of (insert personal disaster here) because I built it to fly myself. That would be a bit silly on a 150k+ asset.
To your point, worrying about these types of things can drive you nuts with different possibilities and bottom feeders will always go after anyone they can anyway. Limit of liability paperwork has been thrown out of court on many occasions and I consider protecting my family's legal and financial future nearly as important and as their safety and well being. If it was just me I wouldn't care much but I'm not going to risk my family's future because of my hobby. Making a buyer jump through hoops was much more likely 2 years ago than it is today.
The reality is regardless if you comply with it or not, you are always open to said bottom feeders in anything that is considered a "rich man's" hobby, at least as USA Crapday would have you believe thanks to the loss of objectivity in the media. But I digress.
My $0.002
Michael
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: From Van's on the door SB |
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An inspection is either signed as airworthy or unairworthy, with a
statement that a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items was
provided to the owner. It is not proper to state any discrepancies in
the logbook. See 43.11 (a)(5).
Kelly
40866
A&P?IA
Tim Olson wrote:
[quote]
So give them the parts, and make them sign a statement
saying they understand that the SB was not complied with,
and that any and all liabilities resulting from operation
of the aircraft are not yours. Then, sign your logbook
off as the repair person as "unairworthy" due to the
non-compliance with the SB, and tell them that now, in
order to fly it home, they need to get a ferry permit
and sign-off from an A&P.  You can't get rid of
all liability ANY time you are going to sell that plane,
but you can minimize your liability if you try.
If you have a seriously interested buyer, they'd probably
be fine jumping through that hoop just to buy your plane.
Or, option 2....just build the dang plane to FLY it,
not to sell it. 
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Well that opens a whole other problem area. If you don’t implement
> the SB, and the aircraft is sold to someone else who then looses the
> door, you are also potentially liable. Call the aircraft Bob’s Toy
> in the paperwork if you want, the insurance company won’t care when
> they are looking for a way to offset the costs.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *DLM
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:21 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Re: From Van's on the door SB
>
>
>
> The problem is not the builder but the purchased (second owner)
> aircraft. We have one here that was purchased by a businessman who
> according to my sources has already lost the same door twice. No
> record on any FAA database have I found. In addition his aircraft was
> annualed and the shop left the nose wheel flopping side to side by 20
> degrees. I talked to the second shop who was asked to fix the nose
> wheel and pointed them to the MATCO axle solution. The problem is not
> we builders who own and fly but the hired guns and other sellers that
> build an aircraft to Vans specifications and sell it. Since we either
> do not have deep pockets or are adequately liability proof, the
> litigant will try and sue Vans. For me, I already have an adequate
> solution to the door and will not implement the SB. Now for space to
> store another box.
>
>
>
> --
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject: From Van's on the door SB |
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An inspection is either signed as airworthy or unairworthy, with a
statement that a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items was
provided to the owner. It is not proper to state any discrepancies in
the logbook. See 43.11 (a)(5).
Kelly
40866
A&P/IA
Tim Olson wrote:
[quote]
So give them the parts, and make them sign a statement
saying they understand that the SB was not complied with,
and that any and all liabilities resulting from operation
of the aircraft are not yours. Then, sign your logbook
off as the repair person as "unairworthy" due to the
non-compliance with the SB, and tell them that now, in
order to fly it home, they need to get a ferry permit
and sign-off from an A&P. You can't get rid of
all liability ANY time you are going to sell that plane,
but you can minimize your liability if you try.
If you have a seriously interested buyer, they'd probably
be fine jumping through that hoop just to buy your plane.
Or, option 2....just build the dang plane to FLY it,
not to sell it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Well that opens a whole other problem area. If you don’t implement
> the SB, and the aircraft is sold to someone else who then looses the
> door, you are also potentially liable. Call the aircraft Bob’s Toy
> in the paperwork if you want, the insurance company won’t care when
> they are looking for a way to offset the costs.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *DLM
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:21 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Re: From Van's on the door SB
>
>
>
> The problem is not the builder but the purchased (second owner)
> aircraft. We have one here that was purchased by a businessman who
> according to my sources has already lost the same door twice. No
> record on any FAA database have I found. In addition his aircraft was
> annualed and the shop left the nose wheel flopping side to side by 20
> degrees. I talked to the second shop who was asked to fix the nose
> wheel and pointed them to the MATCO axle solution. The problem is not
> we builders who own and fly but the hired guns and other sellers that
> build an aircraft to Vans specifications and sell it. Since we either
> do not have deep pockets or are adequately liability proof, the
> litigant will try and sue Vans. For me, I already have an adequate
> solution to the door and will not implement the SB. Now for space to
> store another box.
>
>
>
> --
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: From Van's on the door SB |
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I'd suggest that if you sell your aircraft, hand the new owner the parts and the SB for the door. Now it's his choice. Lawyers may still come after you, but at least you have a plausible defense.
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Bob Turner
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: From Van's on the door SB |
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Excellent, clear, concise and appropriate response from Gus Funnell - VANS. It is a recommendation.
SB compliance on Experimental build is "not mandatory". just clearly recommended by the manufacturer of the parts and FAA kit approved product. YMMV and a number of builders have exceeded the functionality and safety with their own fabrications before issuance of SB 10-1-4. That makes OBAM aircraft such a wonderful pursuit.
Thanks Deems, this is a lot more than Ken Scott's "Just build the damn thing".
John Cox
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:19 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: From Van's on the door SB
So we now have it from the horses mouth.
This is CYA !
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
On 1/19/2010 7:22 PM, Miller John wrote:
FYI. I was hoping for a better understanding on this issue.......
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Gus Funnell" <gusf(at)vansaircraft.com (gusf(at)vansaircraft.com)>
Date: January 19, 2010 6:08:59 PM CST
To: rudi.greyling(at)accenture.com (rudi.greyling(at)accenture.com), rv10builder(at)verizon.net (rv10builder(at)verizon.net), ddddsp(at)juno.com (ddddsp(at)juno.com), gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com), dav1111(at)suddenlink.net (dav1111(at)suddenlink.net), bob(at)thelefflers.com (bob(at)thelefflers.com), robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com), bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com (bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com), scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)
Subject: Service Bulletin
Thanks for your email regarding the recent RV-10 SB.
The point of any SB is to benefit both RV builders/pilots AND Van's Aircraft with increased safety and reduced costs. Most of the complaints we get about SBs list only the builder's personal concerns about difficulty/cost of compliance, or their belief that there is a "better way".
We always consider those issues, but we also have to balance them with broader concerns; to maintain Van's Aircraft as a viable company, and to protect it against future liability. There will always be potential for some conflict between these two points of view, which we hope that our customers will understand.
As with all Service Bulletins in the certified and experimental world, it is not mandatory that owner/operators comply with them. It is up to the owner to comply or not, at their sole discretion. By issuing this service bulletin, Van's is recommending that it be complied with.
Fly Safe,
Vans
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