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Speaking of electric fuel pumps...

 
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lucien



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... Reply with quote

... I need to post a correction to my previous comments (Thom will probably pop my wrist for this) in the hopes this will be helpful to others.

In going through the installation manual, it turns out Rotax does recommend the use of an auxiliary electric pump contrary to what I thought (when you're wrong, you're wrong). this is in 14.2, "Operating limits" on the fuel system. They also list the limits on the fuel pressure, etc. that's required for the overall system. There's also a diagram for the fuel system, tho it looks like it now reflects the new ASTM setup on the new motors which has the fuel distribution block attached to the crossover tube on the carburettors.

Another mistake I've been unknowingly making is using 1/4" ID line on the draw side of the pump. That fitting is a 5/16" - you'd have thought I'd have gotten a clue with how hard it was to push that 1/4" line onto it all this time Wink.

So you're actually supposed to use 5/16" line there. Strange but true.

I'm going to go ahead and replace mine with 5/16" soon as I get some in.

LS


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Titan II SS
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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:26 am    Post subject: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... Reply with quote

> ... I need to post a correction to my previous comments
Quote:

In going through the installation manual, it turns out Rotax does
recommend the use of an auxiliary electric pump contrary to what I thought

Another mistake I've been unknowingly making is using 1/4" ID line on the
draw side of the pump. That fitting is a 5/16"

I'm going to go ahead and replace mine with 5/16" soon as I get some in.

LS


Lucien/Gang:

That's ok. Most of us have been using aux pumps in all kinds of aircraft
for many years without experiencing pilot overload. Wink

We have beat this subject to death, over the years, on the Kolb List. Don't
think it hurts anything though, because we have new folks come on board all
the time, and they probably have not been subjected to this information.

I've been using aux pumps since my Ultrastar days. I used two Mikuni pumps.
The Cuyuna had two crankcase ports for that reason.

The Pierberg fuel pump (used on Opel, Taunus, etc., automobiles for years)
has always had a larger intake nipple than the outlet nipple. Won't hurt
anything to use 5/16" fuel line on the intake side, however, I have always
used 1/4" with success. My 912ULS is happy with the fuel provided by the
engine driven pump, alone, sucking through a 1/4" line, at altitudes over
14,500 feet above sea level, for an hour and longer. That is good enough
for me. This is backed up by nearly 3,000 912 hours operating with the same
system. I am convinced it works well.

I'd change my intake fuel line to 5/16", but it would require three new
nipples and a lot of difficult work to access and replace. I don't bend
like I used to.

There are a lot of food Kolb builders and flyers on this List with many
years and many hours of experience. We have learned a lot, over the years,
about our little airplanes and engines.

john h
mkIII - Under tornado (not Titan) watch at hauck's holler, alabama.


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lucien



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... Reply with quote

John Hauck wrote:

Lucien/Gang:

That's ok. Most of us have been using aux pumps in all kinds of aircraft
for many years without experiencing pilot overload. Wink

We have beat this subject to death, over the years, on the Kolb List. Don't
think it hurts anything though, because we have new folks come on board all
the time, and they probably have not been subjected to this information.

I've been using aux pumps since my Ultrastar days. I used two Mikuni pumps.
The Cuyuna had two crankcase ports for that reason.

The Pierberg fuel pump (used on Opel, Taunus, etc., automobiles for years)
has always had a larger intake nipple than the outlet nipple. Won't hurt
anything to use 5/16" fuel line on the intake side, however, I have always
used 1/4" with success. My 912ULS is happy with the fuel provided by the
engine driven pump, alone, sucking through a 1/4" line, at altitudes over
14,500 feet above sea level, for an hour and longer. That is good enough
for me. This is backed up by nearly 3,000 912 hours operating with the same
system. I am convinced it works well.

I'd change my intake fuel line to 5/16", but it would require three new
nipples and a lot of difficult work to access and replace. I don't bend
like I used to.

There are a lot of food Kolb builders and flyers on this List with many
years and many hours of experience. We have learned a lot, over the years,
about our little airplanes and engines.

john h
mkIII - Under tornado (not Titan) watch at hauck's holler, alabama.


I'm slowly making my way through the 912 manuals, mostly we concentrate on the maintenance and operator's manualss but there's a surprising amount of good info in the installation manual that has to do with basic operation.

Just going through that manual alone, I've found several things I've had to review how it's done on my plane already, i.e. how the carburettor vent lines were handled and now the 5/16" ID line on the vacuum side. I've also had no trouble with just 1/4" and changing it is a low priority item right now.
But it was an interesting find for me, anyway.

As for an electric pump, I do want to add a gascolator at some point. Again I havn't had any trouble but now that I run E10 almost exclusively I'd probably feel a little safer with a gascolator in the line eventually. At that point, I'll probably add a backup electric pump along with.

LS


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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... Reply with quote

Lucien,

I'm glad you are not forgetting the installation manual because, as you said, there is much in there that is not (but should be) in the other manuals. If I were Rotax I'd combine them all into a single manual thereby eliminating the redundancy and making sure anyone who has the manual has it all.

Jabiru is similar in this regard. They have a "do not operate for extended time" rpm range in the installation manual that does not appear in the operators' manual, where it should also be unless it only applies to engine break-in period, which is not made clear in either manual. On the plus side, Jabiru includes their equivalent to a line maintenance manual in their operators' manual.


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lucien



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: Speaking of electric fuel pumps... Reply with quote

Thom Riddle wrote:
Lucien,

I'm glad you are not forgetting the installation manual because, as you said, there is much in there that is not (but should be) in the other manuals. If I were Rotax I'd combine them all into a single manual thereby eliminating the redundancy and making sure anyone who has the manual has it all.

Jabiru is similar in this regard. They have a "do not operate for extended time" rpm range in the installation manual that does not appear in the operators' manual, where it should also be unless it only applies to engine break-in period, which is not made clear in either manual. On the plus side, Jabiru includes their equivalent to a line maintenance manual in their operators' manual.


Agreed. I do kind of wonder about some of the things. For instance, the MOI limits on the prop are listed in the installation manual in 18.1 and surprisingly, to me when I first read it anyway, the MOI limit on the 912 is the same as the 2-stroke C box! Makes you scratch your head a little as clearly just by looking at it it's much beefier with a fatter prop shaft, longer distance between the bearings, etc..

There's also a caution "Never fit propellor directly on crankshaft", which looks like an, er, cut-n-paste error from the 2-stroke manuals. There's no way I know of to fit a prop onto the 912 crankshaft (at least not without a lot of disassembly of the motor and effort in general Wink).

So I am a little skeptical about some of the things I'm reading. But there's stuff like this in the 2-stroke manuals too, like the off-by-almost-100F CHT ranges and limits......

LS


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