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Encoder Certification
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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: Encoder Certification

1/25/2010



Hello Angier Ames, You wrote 1) 2) and 3) below:



1) "Altitude encoders are required equipment for IFR flight in controlled 

airspace."



{Response} Not true for all controlled airspace -- just that airspace 

identified in 91.215 (b). Can you show otherwise?



2) "And unless the operation is conducted under part 121 or 135, as per 

FARS, 14CFR Section215(a), they do NOT need to be certified/ TSO'd."



{Response} Not true because 14 CFR Section 215 (a) says exactly the 

opposite. Read here:



"91.215   ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.



(a) All airspace: U.S.-registered civil aircraft. For operations not 

conducted under part 121 or 135 of this chapter, ATC transponder equipment 

installed must meet the performance and environmental requirements of any 

class of TSO-C74b (Mode A) or any class of TSO-C74c (Mode A with altitude 

reporting capability) as appropriate, or the appropriate class of TSO-C112 

(Mode S)."



3) "So, go to your basement and create your own altitude encoder. Your only 

obligation under Part 91 is to demonstrate that it meets the performance and 

environmental standards of any class of TSO-C47b or c  or TSO-C112."



{Response} More than a bit misleading. The FAA requirements of proving "the 

performance and environmental standards" of a TSO, or an alternate method of 

complying with the requirements, for avionics are very extensive, demanding, 

and expensive. This is why most of the altitude encoding EFIS' available to 

the experimental amateur built community are not TSO'd. There is extensive 

material in the aeroelectric list archives on the significance of 

paragraph14 CFR 91.217, particularly 91.217 (b). Just help yourself.



'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and 

understand knowledge."



=========================================================



Time: 07:07:12 AM PST US

From: "Greenbacks, UnLtd." <N4ZQ(at)comcast.net>

Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Encoder Certification



Since we are all now exhausted by this subject, lets beat this dead

horse one more time.

Altitude encoders are required equipment for IFR flight in controlled

airspace. And unless the operation is conducted under part 121 or 135,

as per FARS, 14CFR Section215(a), they do NOT need to be certified/

TSO'd.



So, go to your basement and create your own altitude encoder. Your

only obligation under Part 91 is to demonstrate that it meets the

performance and environmental standards of any class of TSO-C47b or c

or TSO-C112.



Angier Ames

N4ZQ

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grosseair(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: Encoder Certification

I agree, Bob, and I thought the first couple of responses pretty well 

covered the original question. The subsequent discussion has certainly 

covered the subject of controlled airspace, but reminds me of a favorite 

quote: "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the 

subject"--Winston Churchill



John 



bobsv35b(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Good Morning John,

 As Always, It All Depends! <G>

 I think most of us would agree with your assessment.

 The subject came up when a homebuilder wanted to know if he could fly 

 his transponder equipped airplane to another point to get it certified.

 That morphed into a discussion as to where a transponder is required.

 While most of us do opt to have an operating transponder on board, the 

 fact remains that such a unit is NOT required in most of the airspace 

 utilized by we GA pilots.

 Even in areas where a transponder IS required, there are procedures 

 available that may allow a flight to be made with the transponder 

 inoperative.

 And, why do we care? As OC says, it's all in the spirit of education. 

 Since there are so many conflicting opinions, it appears that some 

 education is required.

 Does that make any sense at all or do you still feel we were wasting 

 your time?

 Happy Skies,

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Downers Grove, IL

 Stearman N3977A (With a transponder)

 In a message dated 1/24/2010 12:08:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, 

 grosseair(at)comcast.net writes:



     

     <grosseair(at)comcast.net>



     This whole discussion has me totally exhausted. I personally don't

     understand why you just wouldn't buy a transponder... unless, of

     course.

     you're smuggling drugs or are flying some WWI vintage rag bag with no

     electrical system. Then I get it, and why would you even care?



     John

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al38kit

Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 21

Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Encoder Certification

This has been a most humorous thread...It appears that many agree that a transponder is required in all controlled airspace...it is not.



In fact, a transponder is not required for all IFR flight.  A quote from the EAA regarding equipment for IFR flights...



"Transponders and related equipment;  One item that will be high on the list of desired equipment will be a transponder. It’s interesting to note that 91.205 does not list a transponder as required in order to operate under IFR." 



Just to muddy the water!

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