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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Does anyone know where I can find some small diameter fire sleeve to put on the primer line?  The line I want to cover is 1/4 inch outside diameter polyurethane.

Thanks

tj

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:48 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Here, Tom.  You should be able to find what you need in here.

Deke

http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/Coated_Insulation_Products/Ben-Har/



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Does anyone know where I can find some small diameter fire sleeve to put 

 on the primer line?  The line I want to cover is 1/4 inch outside diameter 

 polyurethane.

 Thanks

 tj



 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 84152#284152

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Now I see "flame retardant", so....never mind. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 844 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~156 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Jan 31, 2010, at 11:24 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Here, Tom.  You should be able to find what you need in here.

 Deke

 http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/Coated_Insulation_Products/Ben-Har/



> 

>

> Does anyone know where I can find some small diameter fire sleeve  

> to put on the primer line?  The line I want to cover is 1/4 inch  

> outside diameter polyurethane.

> Thanks

> tj

>

> --------

> Tom Jones

> Classic IV

> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

> Ellensburg, WA

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 84152#284152

>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

I just went there, Deke, and the initial impression I got was that of  

a medical website. Whether it was the type of font used or what, but  

it struck me that way. Nonetheless, it looks like they have high  

heat...220°C...proof, but I didn't see the word "fire" anywhere....yet.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 844 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~156 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Jan 31, 2010, at 11:24 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Here, Tom.  You should be able to find what you need in here.

 Deke

 http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/Coated_Insulation_Products/Ben-Har/



> 

>

> Does anyone know where I can find some small diameter fire sleeve  

> to put on the primer line?  The line I want to cover is 1/4 inch  

> outside diameter polyurethane.

> Thanks

> tj

>

> --------

> Tom Jones

> Classic IV

> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

> Ellensburg, WA

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 84152#284152

>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

 	  Quote: 	
		  Here, Tom. You should be able to find what you need in here.

Deke

http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/Coated_Insulation_Products/Ben-Har/

	




Deke, I poked around on that site but couldn't find any place where It allows to purchase anything from them or any prices.



It seems to me I saw some small diameter (1/4 inch or so) regular fire sleeve for sale on the web somewhere a while back but can't find it now.  I do find some places that seem to have some but they are vague and don't have prices or any provision to purchase it.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Tom,



Try these guys  you need the top one .



http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/41/Firesleeve



Here is another one  http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin/air/hazel.cgi/hzpi/u/HzSt031NcItu.WhIU.4/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=/Aircraft/HoseFittings/AeroquipFiresleeve.html#Firesleeve



Btw more Kitfox videos up,  http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

Last edited by dave on Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Tom,



Try these guys  you need the top one .



http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/41/Firesleeve



Btw more Kitfox videos up,  http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer



_________________

Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

http://www.cfisher.com/

Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer

http://www.rotaxaircraft.com/forum/

__________________________________



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Tom, on the left side of the home page is their contact information.



Atkins & Pearce, Inc.

One Braid Way

Covington, KY 41017

U.S.A.



Phone: 859.356.2001



Coated Insulation Products

Phone: 1.877.502.3344

Fax: 859.356.4280



Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)



---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

I would caution against using non  MIL SPEC fire sleeve.



Our Regs in Canada require MIL SPEC. 



It like buying bungee cords at Walmart  

dumb idea 



This is fire and safety related. 



 	  Fox5flyer wrote: 	
		  Tom, on the left side of the home page is their contact information.



Atkins & Pearce, Inc.

One Braid Way

Covington, KY 41017

U.S.A.



Phone: 859.356.2001



Coated Insulation Products

Phone: 1.877.502.3344

Fax: 859.356.4280



Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

groan...  Oops, um, yes that's  good advice.  We'll be sure to adhere to 

Canada regs.

Thanks,

Deke





 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I would caution against using non  MIL SPEC fire sleeve.



 Our Regs in Canada require MIL SPEC.



 It like buying bungee cords at Walmart

 dumb idea



 This is fire and safety related.





 Fox5flyer wrote:

> Tom, on the left side of the home page is their contact information.

>

> Atkins & Pearce, Inc.

> One Braid Way

> Covington, KY 41017

> U.S.A.

>

> Phone: 859.356.2001

>

> Coated Insulation Products

> Phone: 1.877.502.3344

> Fax: 859.356.4280

>

> Deke Morisse

> Mikado Michigan

> S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

> "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

> Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

> -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)

>

> ---

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 Awesome *New Forum *

 http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/

 Realtime Kitfox movies to separate  the internet  chatter from the truth

 http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 84344#284344

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

I am pretty sure that th experimental category in USA is the same wayr. 

LSA I not sure about but likely the same .



It kind of like Gascolators , just plain smart to use.

Dave

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

I just went back to see why such small fire sleeve was needed, and I  

see it's for polyurethane.....not such a good idea under the cowl is  

it? I thought that all under-cowl fuel line should be metallic, or  

protected hose, or has someone lowered the standards? Case in  

point....Cessna primer lines are 1/8" steel lines, and I think that  

even copper is frowned upon....it may be legal, but how much  

vibration does it take for cracks to appear?



Sorry if I seem to be hanging around the certified aircraft crowd too  

much and picking up bad habits. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 844 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~156 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Jan 31, 2010, at 11:24 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Here, Tom.  You should be able to find what you need in here.

 Deke

 http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/Coated_Insulation_Products/Ben-Har/



> 

>

> Does anyone know where I can find some small diameter fire sleeve  

> to put on the primer line?  The line I want to cover is 1/4 inch  

> outside diameter polyurethane.

> Thanks

> tj

>

> --------

> Tom Jones

> Classic IV

> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

> Ellensburg, WA

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 84152#284152

>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Actually, there are no regs in the USA that specify what may materials may

or may not be used in Amateur Built/Experimental aircraft.  The folks that

issue the special airworthiness certificate make the call as to the

airworthiness of the Amateur Built/Experimental aircraft.

John Hart 



--

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

I'm not anal about traceability about the parts that I put on my plane but I

do prefer to use only parts that were at least once certified.



Some tome ago I came across a supply of fasteners that were certified but

the paperwork was lost so they all got relegated to a parts graveyard.

Whenever I need a fastener that's where I head...Cap in hand 



The one thing about certified parts is that you know exactly what you have

on your plane.  The chances of a defective part is just about zero.  BTW as

soon as a part is put on one of our non certified planes all the parts lose

their certificate too.  



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Even the steel lines should be inspected on a regular basis.  There are even

on certified planes some rubber lines but they don't use the slip on barbs

with a clamp.  Copper is softer and therefore a lot easier to work with but

it work hardens easily and cracks just as easily. It should be ok if it is

suspended by rubber but ZI wouldn't trust it for anything but to get out of

a jam.  For the price of a small pipe bender and availability of line at a

local brake shop I can't see using copper except if you are stuck between a

rock and a hard place.



Remember the certified crowd are the ones that taught you to fly...  and

their first object is your safety.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:43 am Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

I recently did a primer job on my flight instructors' 1963(?) Cessna.  

I guess some of those early ones had priming going only to one bank  

of cylinders, and he wanted all 6 cylinders primed. He had some old  

SS lines (from another engine) that were too long, and I shortened  

them, re-bent some, and silver-soldered the ball-type ends on them.  

I'm probably not using the proper term for those end fittings, but  

nonetheless, I got all six lines run to a distribution log, or block,  

and the thing looked like a factory job when done...well, maybe it  

wasn't THAT bad. : )

But that's when I was told that copper wasn't the best material for  

the job, but it is sometimes used. And no, I never had to un-solder a  

ball fitting so as to install the flare nut. Like any job of that  

magnitude, I always check twice before firing up the torch. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 845.1 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~155 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Feb 2, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Even the steel lines should be inspected on a regular basis.  There  

 are even

 on certified planes some rubber lines but they don't use the slip  

 on barbs

 with a clamp.  Copper is softer and therefore a lot easier to work  

 with but

 it work hardens easily and cracks just as easily. It should be ok  

 if it is

 suspended by rubber but ZI wouldn't trust it for anything but to  

 get out of

 a jam.  For the price of a small pipe bender and availability of  

 line at a

 local brake shop I can't see using copper except if you are stuck  

 between a

 rock and a hard place.



 Remember the certified crowd are the ones that taught you to  

 fly...  and

 their first object is your safety.



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Every Cub type plane I have worked on including my short wing piper death trap has copper lines for the primer.  If they are not supported right, or are run to short with no relief they can crack, but they are still widely used here.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:21 pm Post subject: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

In that case when the primer is in and locked no fuel flows through the

lines so a crack won't end up with the big bang.  I know there used to be

one engine that the pilots would occasionally leave the primer unlocked and

had problems shutting it down...  I think it was one of the old pilots vs

engineer things...  like the gripe sheet that said "something wrong in the

cockpit" and the repair log that said "something fixed in the cockpit".



One of the things I wished we did in technical college was silver soldering.

I'm not too bad with regular solder but that's another game all together.

We did get some experience on the English wheel.. Watch the fingers!

Students were not allowed to use the lathes for some reason.  Welding was

also out even though all the equipment was there.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

I did a lot of thinking about what material to use for the primer line.  I considered copper, ridged aluminum, polyurethane,  soft aluminum, poly flow or whatever our brake lines are.



My logic says an in flight fire is low probability.  My thinking is the biggest threat of a fire is if I bump into something with my Kitfox.



Two strokes have a lot of vibration so I ruled out the copper and aluminum for fear of cracking.   I remember my grandpa's 56 ford pick up breaking the copper oil pressure sender line on one of our deer hunting trips.  I thought about using copper or aluminum in the cabin and transition to polyurethane in front of the fire wall but that adds several  connections that there is no good way to make and increases chances for a leak.



I decided to use 1/8th ID X 1/4 OD polyurethane cause I think if it gets crunched it has the best chance of not springing a leak.  That stuff is very tuff and bends real well without breaking.



I have my halon fire extinguisher mounted on the center tubing next to my knee so flame on being as the original question still remains.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Source for small diameter fire sleeve?

Found it.  Mcmaster-Carr

http://www.mcmaster.com/#silicone-coated-fiberglass-sleeving/=5nnsgx

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

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