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Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: Anouncement

<?xml:namespace prefix =  o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />Grumman  Gang, 

  

MT  Propeller has received Supplemental Type Certificate for installing their  MTV-18-B/183-59b propeller assembly with 2700 RPM controller on all models  of Grumman Tigers. This STC was initiated through a cooperative of 2  Grumman gangers and the MT distributor Jim Ayers with Less Drag  Products.  This STC uses the latest, most efficient blade design. Pictures  and more information are available at links below. 

  

The MT  propeller is an electrically controlled constant speed prop. It has both an  automatic mode and a manual mode. In the auto mode you simply dial in the  desired RPM and the controller will hold that RPM. In the manual mode the pilot  must hold the RPM thru a momentary switch. It works great and really makes a  whole new airplane out of the Tiger. 

  

As an  introductory special, we have been able to arrange that the first 10 props can  be sold at a 10% discount. The current price of the prop is $12,480. The  discounted price for the first ten purchasers is $11,232.  The prop is  shipped disassembled from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Germany to Less Drag Products, Inc. in Southern  California for $360 so the total cost is $11,592 plus freight to you, or you can  fly in to Less Drag Products at OXNARD airport and fly home faster.  This  special group purchase price ends March 15 and MT is raising prices on  April 1, so if you want to go faster and climb better, now is the time to do  it. 

  

Website links that you should check out:   

http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/stcusa/grumman.htm 

  

http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/electric.htm 

  

Here  are MT Data and manual links: 

 http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/datsheet/mtv-18.pdf



The  Design Limit for the MT prop is 300HP at 2800RPM  

Manual: 

 http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/manuals/e-118.pdf 

  

  

  

Email  me Ned Thomas at 923te(at)att.net to  hold a place in the group purchase. 

  

Contact Jim Ayers for more details on the prop at  805-795-5377 8am to 8pm  PST.



   [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:22 am Post subject: Anouncement

Sent this to the gang so think it's only fair to send it here!



I believe that you can also pick it up at a customs port of entry fully 

assembled and save the assembly cost here in the USA.

Linn



923te wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Grumman Gang,

 

  

 

 MT Propeller has received Supplemental Type Certificate for installing 

 their MTV-18-B/183-59b propeller assembly with 2700 RPM controller on 

 all models of Grumman Tigers. This STC was initiated through a 

 cooperative of 2 Grumman gangers and the MT distributor Jim Ayers 

 with Less Drag Products.  This STC uses the latest, most efficient blade 

 design. Pictures and more information are available at links below.

 

  

 

 The MT propeller is an electrically controlled constant speed prop. It 

 has both an automatic mode and a manual mode. In the auto mode you 

 simply dial in the desired RPM and the controller will hold that RPM. In 

 the manual mode the pilot must hold the RPM thru a momentary switch. It 

 works great and really makes a whole new airplane out of the Tiger.

 

  

 

 As an introductory special, we have been able to arrange that the first 

 10 props can be sold at a 10% discount. The current price of the prop is 

 $12,480. The discounted price for the first ten purchasers is $11,232. 

  The prop is shipped disassembled from Germany to Less Drag Products, 

 Inc. in Southern California for $360 so the total cost is $11,592 plus 

 freight to you, or you can fly in to Less Drag Products at OXNARD 

 airport and fly home faster.  This special group purchase price 

 ends March 15 and MT is raising prices on April 1, so if you want to go 

 faster and climb better, now is the time to do it.

 

  

 

 Website links that you should check out:

 

 http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/stcusa/grumman.htm

 

  

 

 http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/electric.htm

 

  

 

 Here are MT Data and manual links:

 

  http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/datsheet/mtv-18.pdf

 

 The Design Limit for the MT prop is 300HP at 2800RPM

 

 Manual:

 

  http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/manuals/e-118.pdf

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

 Email me Ned Thomas at 923te(at)att.net to hold a place in the group purchase.

 

  

 

 Contact Jim Ayers for more details on the prop at 805-795-5377 8am to 

 8pm PST.

 

 *

 

 

 *

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:22 am Post subject: Anouncement

how does it compare to other props, i.e., the Hartzell Scimitar prop.



--

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: Anouncement

With regard to performance or price?  Performance  is similar I think and price is considerably more than a Hartzell.  When BO  gets done devaluating our dollar the MT prop will cost even  more!

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: Anouncement

and weight



--

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

az_gila

Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Tucson, AZ

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: Anouncement

But a full price comparison with a Harzell would have to include a new spinner and a new certified governor to add onto your O-360-xxx...



 $6000 + $500 + $1500 ????



 gil A



 

 [quote]With regard to performance or price?  Performance is similar I think and price is considerably more than a Hartzell.  When BO gets done devaluating our dollar the MT prop will cost even more!

  

 Cliff

 [b]

az_gila

Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Tucson, AZ

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:30 pm Post subject: Anouncement

My Hartzell estimate was a bit low.



 Vans Aircraft volume OEM price - to be installed on a RV-X only - is $6600 for the new blended airfoil O-360 prop.

 So, without the Vans discount, a better estimate may be -



 $7200 + $500 + $1500 ????



 Still less than the MT, but getting closer.



 BO is screwing up the $$, but the Euro folks aren't doing too well either  - check the slope of the 4 month graph...:^)



  http://www.x-rates.com/d/EUR/USD/graph120.html



 gil A



 

 [quote]But a full price comparison with a Harzell would have to include a new spinner and a new certified governor to add onto your O-360-xxx...



 $6000 + $500 + $1500 ????



 gil A



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  With regard to performance or price?  Performance is similar I think and price is considerably more than a Hartzell.  When BO gets done devaluating our dollar the MT prop will cost even more!

  

 Cliff 	
[b]

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:26 am Post subject: Re: Anouncement

I'm having trouble getting this posted. Here is the third try...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: 923te 

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 1:51 PM

Subject: MT Prop Questions

I have tried to answer some of the questions below.

The new STC has blades that look very comparable to the Hartzel Scimitar design. It is supposed to give me another couple of knots of speed do to it's better efficeincy. I should know by the end of February after I have it installed.

Hartzell Scimitar propeller for the IO470 Bonanza's are $9550 come with a 2400 hour/6 year TBO and weigh 80 lbs

For the O-360 powered Cessna's are $9750 come with a 2400 hour/6 year TBO and weigh 67 lbs

These prices and weights do not include prop governor and controls. 

The O-360 A4K engine in the Tiger can only get a constant speed prop thru MT propeller as it is the only existing manufacture of a certified electric controlled prop on the planet. 

http://www.hartzellprop.com/top_prop/conversion_cutsheet.asp?manufacturer=Beechcraft&conversion_kit=B002

http://www.hartzellprop.com/top_prop/conversion_cutsheet.asp?manufacturer=Cessna&conversion_kit=C020

The lowest price is available only from Less Drag Products. Special agreements

were negotiated in order to induce MT propeller to accomplish the STC which

allow Less Drag to sell the prop exclusively at a discount.

Shipped Assembled door-to-door from Germany - $1,100 estimated.  Varies with

destination. To the closest port of entry $1050 estimated plus customs and

pickup.

Shipped Disassembled from Germany to Less Drag Products, Inc. in Southern

California - $360

It is an option to have the prop shipped assembled to your place of choice. It

will may end up costing more.

The MT prop weighs itself 44-lbs

Total installation 54-lbs

McCauley 41.9-lbs

The Sensenich  42.25lbs

Prestolite MZ4222 18.5-lbs

Sky-Tec 149-12L5 8.25-lbs

OEM 24v Alternator 12.25-lbs

Plane Power 24v Alternator 9.8-lbs

Hand propping should be no different than any other 3 bladed prop.

In addition to what is called out in the Manuals of 6 years and 1800hrs TBO.

http://www.mt-propeller.com/pdf/sbs/sb1ag.pdf

I can give this testimonial:

I have flown the prop for the past 6 years and have had absolutely no

maintenance or operational issues with the prop. I have spent $0 for

maintenance. It is a very durable prop. Having the stainless steel leading

edge it can be redressed similarly to the Sensenich. Withstands rain and

racing.  It was designed for up to 300hp and 2800 RPM.

As far as performance goes:

Back in 2004 I did extensive flight testing comparing the Sensenich and MT

propellers. David Fletcher donated the labor to remove the MT and reinstall

the Sensenich and then reinstall the MT. I was very confident of at least one

data point at 4000'DA. This comparison data was presented to the grumman gang

and is available in the archive or in an easier to read format here:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ad6U0DSgjX1QZGRwd3IybjZfMGhwMnJzbWQ4&hl=en

Lots of gangers told me my plane would be a lot slower with a 3 bladed prop. I

found it was the same speed but burned less fuel. The comments at the AYA fly

in's gave me some motivation to race. After I started racing I found my plane

was able to compete with the fastest Tigers. It was very rewarding to win the

last USA held LoPresti race at the AYA convention in Iowa. While returning

from a race last November I was in a flight of two with a grand champion Tiger

racer. He could barely keep up with me and was burning over 2gph more fuel at

something above 2900rpm....he had to throttle way back in order to have enough

fuel to make his 4 hour flight nonstop....

It is also a very economical prop to fly. You can  reduce RPMs to 2450 WOT and

save a couple gph and only loose around 10 knots.

Comparing to the fixed pitch 2 blade prop I have found the MT prop to give the

same as or better cruise speed and remarkably better climb AND descent speeds

and rates. You can descend at Vne and not overspeed the engine.

It really does make a whole new airplane out of the Tiger.

Best Regards,

Ned

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: Anouncement

Five years ago I paid $7900 for a new 3 blade (more  expensive than a 2 blade) for a Hartzell Scimitar prop for my Bonanza, including  shipping from Ohio and the STC.  Of course it is more than that now.   My point was, MT props are considerably more expensive than Hartzell props,  model for model.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:07 am Post subject: Anouncement

Forgot to mention that the price I mentioned INCLUDED  the spinner assembly.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

az_gila

Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Tucson, AZ

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: Anouncement

To compare the "system", you need to add the governor cost.



 Add $1500 to your $7900, and I would guess that a three blade Hartzell is about the same as the three blade MT prop in 2010 $$$$....:^)



 Is it really more for an equivalent MT prop???



 gil A



 At 07:05 AM 2/6/2010, you wrote:

 [quote]Forgot to mention that the price I mentioned INCLUDED the spinner assembly.

  

 Cliff

   ---

flyv35b(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: Anouncement

I already had a governor.  MT now has a prop for  the Bonanza (520/550 engines) and I believe it is around $1000 or so more  than the Hartzell.  I'll check on that.

  

 Cliff

 [quote]   ---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: Anouncement

When time comes to do the IO360 into a Tiger, I'm going to be looking at the cost effectiveness, weight, and performance advantages of both.

 

  

 

 

  --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:14 pm Post subject: Anouncement

what about the weight of a two blade Hartzell?  I'll have to do more homework. . . . . .



--

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: Anouncement

http://www.mt-propellerusa.com/pdf/stcflyer/bonanza.pdf

  

 No price but says the MT is 26 lbs  lighter.....and something abojut an RPM of 2650 vs Hartzells limit?

 [quote]   ---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: Anouncement

Look at the TCDS on the MT prop.  It's redlined at 2800 rpm and no yellow arcs.  If they, MT, can get a decent prop profile that isn't from the 50's, I'd seriously consider it for the IO360 project plane.

 

  

 

 

  --

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

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