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Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:05 am Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Mike, Here's what I've learned in the hundred hours or so that I've been flying a Mk III.One: Don't fast taxi. You're airplane wants to fly, let it. All tail wheel aircraft are unstable on the ground, any good book on flying tail wheel aircraft will tell you so, as will experience, so why would you want to take the aircraft into the region where it is most unstable and then keep it there?

 Two: take off technique. I think I've covered them all at some point. Conventional tail wheel, i.e., accelerate, raise the tail, at rotation lower the tail, works good, busy, much stick wagging. Modified conventional tail wheel, stick forward, accelerate, begin steady pull until lift off, better, IMHO. Short field take off, half flaps, stick neutral, accelerate, airplane flies off, at 50 to 100 feet raise flaps, nose comes up into max performance climb, lower nose slightly if you're uncomfortable flying with your feet higher than your head (okay, that's a little extreme, but climbing at 40 IAS sure seems like that sometimes) Best for me, I use it all the time, now.

 Three: get some altitude, do approach stalls clean, half and full flaps. You need to record these anyway, might as well get them done. My aircraft these are 37, 35, and 32 respectively. Do departure stalls, or rather demonstrate to yourself that lightly loaded the airplane doesn't, she'll just bob her nose a little.

 Four: relax, fly around a bit, get used to the view out the wind screen.

Five: landing, approach at 50, probably clean is best although the approach isn't that much steeper with half flaps. Keep power on. About 750 PROP RPM works for me, fly her down to a few feet off the ground, pull power, let her settle on the main gear, i.e. wheel her on. Try to wipe that silly grin off your face.

 



Rick Girard

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

The hard part of flying a Kolb is trying to wipe that Kolb Grin of your face 

 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

wrk2win4u(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Hello List C

 

I have read every word posted regarding how to fly a MIII. I have had my FSII since last May C (2009). I have been learning to fly in a Super Cub PA-18. I anticipate that I will be starting to fly my Kolb at the end of February.  

If anyone wants to post information on transitioning from the Cub to my FSII C please feel free to do so. If I would be better to do it off the list C I will send you my email address or phone number. I am eager to learn more. 

 

I have gone up with Boyd Young twice in his MIII. I have not flown a Kolb yet. Since I am new at this C keep it simple.

 

I will be attending the fly-in at MV this year. 

 

Kurt

Kolb FSII

Rotax 503

Utah   



 

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Date: Wed C 10 Feb 2010 09:24:13 -0500

From: elleryweld(at)aol.com

 

The hard part of flying a Kolb is trying to wipe that Kolb Grin of your face 



Ellery Batchelder Jr.

--

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

One thing to add: figure out ahead of time exactly what is straight ahead. When you come in for your first landing, you are sitting in an airplane with a tapered nose, and no prior experience landing it. Consequently it is easy to touch down somewhat cockeyed and then do some really notable bouncing and lurching around. (Guess how I know this? By the raucous laughter in the background as I told the tower I wanted to go around the pattern and try it again...)



In my case, the compass is straight ahead. It is habit now, but after my first few crossed up bounce-and-lurches, I made a habit of having my line of sight down the runway go right above the compass. 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

> In my case, the compass is straight ahead. It is habit now, but after my 

first few crossed up bounce-and-lurches, I made a habit of having my line of 

sight down the runway go right above the compass.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Richard Pike


	


Richard P/Gang:



I have done all my tests flight from sod.  Very forgiving.  Will slip and 

skid the mains with much less probablity to ground loop.



If I was at a paved strip, I'd check out a appropriate sod/dirt/gravel area 

to shoot my initial landings until I got accustomed to the new airplane.



If I had to land on pavement initially, I'd get a good sight picture on the 

ground, while taxiing straight ahead to insure I had the aircraft correctly 

aligned before I shot my first approach.



For what it is worth,



john hauck

mkIII - 6,725 MKIII take offs and landings - most successful - a few not so 

successful.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Thanks Bro. Richard C

  

   That's something I STILL have trouble with!!!     What looks good to me doesn't seem to be what looks good to my airplane.   ????

  

   I'll be sure and make a note of getting this "squared away"!!

  

 Best regards C   Mike



 		 	   		  Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Richard is on to something that gave me trouble in learning to land a 

sailplane.  I did not know were to put the horizon relative to the very low 

instrument panel.  Finally, I put a piece of black electrician's tape on the 

inside of the canopy to tell me where the horizon was in level flight.  

After that I had no problems with landing.  After a while I no longer needed 

it.  When I started flying the FireFly, I used the same technique.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN





At 09:39 AM 2/10/10 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



One thing to add: figure out ahead of time exactly what is straight ahead. When you come in for your first landing, you are sitting in an airplane with a tapered nose, and no prior experience landing it. Consequently it is easy to touch down somewhat cockeyed and then do some really notable bouncing and lurching around. (Guess how I know this? By the raucous laughter in the background as I told the tower I wanted to go around the pattern and try it again...)



In my case, the compass is straight ahead. It is habit now, but after my first few crossed up bounce-and-lurches, I made a habit of having my line of sight down the runway go right above the compass. 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

zeprep251(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:59 pm Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

The difference between the fs2 and the mk3 is where you sit.Dead ahead in the fs but off to one side and at quite an angle in the mark3.Fast taxi with the tail up on a calm day, staying on the center line will give you excellent perspective as to where straight ahead is from your seat.It's hard to believe at first,but that was the easiest for me.Other than that they fly very similarly.

                                               G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200 510hrs

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Rather than fast taxi, put a yaw string on the canopy and a piece of pin stripe tape right under it. When the yaw string is over the tape stripe, you're aligned. Also helps with turn coordination.



Rick Girard

 

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:23 PM,  <zeprep251(at)aol.com (zeprep251(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote]   The difference between the fs2 and the mk3 is where you sit.Dead ahead in the fs but off to one side and at quite an angle in the mark3.Fast taxi with the tail up on a calm day, staying on the center line will give you excellent perspective as to where straight ahead is from your seat.It's hard to believe at first,but that was the easiest for me.Other than that they fly very similarly.

                                                G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200 510hrs

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  

--

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Maybe I am missing something here.

  

 The yaw string will tell you when you are in  aerodynamic trim if it is aligned with the fuselage while flying.  The nose  of the aircraft may not be aligned with the airstrip.

  

 If you have a cross wind while taxiing straight  ahead, it will blow the yaw string left or right depending on the  wind.

  

 I'm going to stick to my idea to see which way my  airplane is pointed in relation to the airstrip.  I think if I drive it  straight down the airstrip or taxiway, I'll get a good sight picture of  that.  Don't have to go fast or stick my tail in the air to do  it.

  

 I never think about alignment consciously.   Probably using my peripheral vision, what is left of it, to watch my wing tips  for alignment.

  

 Hell, I don't know.  

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

  

  

 [quote]    

Rather than fast taxi, put a yaw    string on the canopy and a piece of pin stripe tape right under it. When the    yaw string is over the tape stripe, you're aligned. Also helps with turn    coordination.   



   Rick Girard

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:40 pm Post subject: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

Jack /Gang, I have been biting my tongue about what I thought and what happened to me but your mention of sailplanes perked me up I think that the best training for almost any aircraft is to take some instruction in a Glider .I was earning my Private Glider permit while i was building my firestar KXP and the switzer 233 is a great teacher   really relating to flying the airplane not just looking at guages and trying to fly by some numbers that although they work in a Cessna 172 dont necessarily work in all aircraft and definitely dont work in a KOLB , Learn to fly with No engine and a dead stick landing every time will teach you so much about flying trhat when you get in aKolb and learn that pushing the throttle forward doesnt make the nose go up the rest is simple" just fly the aircraft"performance of the aircraft becomes apparent as you fly and In the 2 stroke world as frequently happens at least sometimes happens an engine out is  not a panic situation you just "fly the aircraft" . The art of flying is so necessary when flying with no engine that in my opinion should be required before anyone get a permit to fly anything with an engine and 

I should say that flying the Kolb Firestar was a very logical Very Very much like flying the 233 lighter but the same response to input from me the air , the wind the stall speed, as all aircraft I have flown.

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly  



 

   From: Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 2:37:08 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>



Richard is on to something that gave me trouble in learning to land a 

sailplane.  I did not know were to put the horizon relative to the very low 

instrument panel.  Finally, I put a piece of black electrician's tape on the 

inside of the canopy to tell me where the horizon was in level flight.  

After that I had no problems with landing.  After a while I no longer needed  

it.  When I started flying the FireFly, I used the same technique.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN





At 09:39 AM 2/10/10 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)>



One thing to add: figure out ahead of time exactly what is straight ahead. When you come in for your first landing, you are sitting in an airplane with a tapered nose, and no prior experience landing it. Consequently it is easy to touch down somewhat cockeyed and then do some really notable bouncing and lurching around. (Guess how I know this? By the raucous laughter in the background as I told the tower I wanted to go around the pattern and try it again...)



In my case, the compass is straight ahead. It is habit now, but after my first few crossed up bounce-and-lurches, I made a habit  of having my line of sight down the runway go right above the compass. 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)




	


[b]

         [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Learning to fly a Kolb Mk III

 	  capedavis(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  Jack /Gang, I have been biting my tongue about what I thought and what happened to me but your mention of sailplanes perked me up I think that the best training for almost any aircraft is to take some instruction in a Glider .I was earning my Private Glider permit while i was building my firestar KXP and the switzer 233 is a great teacher ï¿½ really relating to flying the airplane not just looking at guages and trying to fly by some numbers that although they work in a Cessna 172 dont necessarily work in all aircraft and definitely dont work in a KOLB , Learn to fly with No engine and a dead stick landing every time will teach you so much about flying trhat when you get in aKolb and learn that pushing the throttle forward doesnt make the nose go up the rest is simple" just fly the aircraft"performance of the aircraft becomes apparent as you fly and In the 2 stroke world as frequently happens at least sometimes happens an engine out is  not a panic situation you just "fly the aircraft" . The art of flying is so necessary when flying with no engine that in my opinion should be required before anyone get a permit to fly anything with an engine and 

I should say that flying the Kolb Firestar was a very logical Very Very much like flying the 233 lighter but the same response to input from me the air , the wind the stall speed, as all aircraft I have flown.

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly  

	




I'll second the value of glider training, tho how applicable it would be to flying a Kolb I wouldn't say is worth enough for everybody to run out and go get their sailplane rating. I worked on a sailplane rating up till solo (stopped at that point for time/money and partially interest reasons) and it was good stick/rudder training for sure. 



OTOH, the sailplane I trained in (Grob 109) had a much better glide ratio than any of the powered planes I've ever flown. So the sink rate I learned in the sailplane certainly didn't correspond to the sink rate of, say, my FSII. So you'd have to practice that all over again in your powered plane.

The handling is also significantly different.



It does teach you a lot about energy managment as well as how to be sensitive to the stall characteristics of your plane, general seat-of-the-pants flying and so on (I missed the freedom and versatility of having an engine, tho. And the tow I never grew to like).



So all that will help. But there's no substitute for time-in-type, IME....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

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