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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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I do, tho, have a lot of time pull-starting 447's overhead with with the
starter rope (on a different plane) - as Thom said, contributing factors on
how easy/hard it is are the prop used and how the handle is routed.
LS
Titan II SS
Lucien/Gang:
I don't doubt that one bit. However, we are talking about Kolb Aircraft on
the Kolb List.
My US could not be started unless you were standing beside it. The US would
do beautiful hammerhead stalls, but the engine would quit before I could get
the nose pointed back down hill. I'd have to shoot a dead stick landing,
get out, restart, get back in to take off and try it again. It was a quirk
of the Cuyuna. Did not idle with the nose stuck up in a vertical position.
When I got my FS flying, it would do beautiful hamerhead stalls, rotate 180
degrees and never complain. Just sit there and idle. Now I didn't need an
in air restart capability.
One of my dreams was to be able to soar the FS, do an in air restart, climb
back up and do it again. Second day I flew my newly built FS I climbed to
3,000 AGL, shut down the engine, glided to 1,500 feet, reached up, restarted
with a big smile on my face. That worked so good I climbed up to 6,000 feet
AGL, shut down and glided back to 1,500 feet. This time the engine had
chilled right down from 50 to 60 mph wind blowing through it. No way I
could restart, so I did my first engine out landing in my brand new FS, into
a big old hay field. I did have enough sense to do my experiementing over
this large hay field.
I had engine outs because I failed to turn on my aux tank at two hours
flight time with the same FS. On one occassion I got a restart and the
other one I ended up on a dirt road in the middle of a swamp somewhere
between Perry, FL, and Brandford, FL.
That was more than 20 years ago. I wouldn't think of even trying an in air
hand restart now.
Safest way to go is the electric starter. It can save your bacon if you
lose your engine at idle or any other time, especially two strokes, while on
short final. It is also much safer to start the engine while seated in the
aircraft than standing along side it. Lots of horror stories on aircraft
accidents, both UL, Experimental, and GA, from hand starts with no one in
the seat.
john hauck
MKIII
hauck's holler, alabama
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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At 09:11 PM 2/15/2010, John Hauck wrote:
| Quote: | My US could not be started unless you were standing beside it. The US would
do beautiful hammerhead stalls, but the engine would quit before I could get
the nose pointed back down hill. I'd have to shoot a dead stick landing,
get out, restart, get back in to take off and try it again. It was a quirk
of the Cuyuna... |
How was the cord routed? Mine goes through a pulley mounted under the LH universal joint, and I can start it while sitting in the seat, in flight or on the ground.
-Dana
--
Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them? [quote][b]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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The cord wasn't routed on the 1984 Ultrastar. It came directly out of the recoil starter.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
[quote] How was the cord routed? Mine goes through a pulley mounted under the LH universal joint, and I can start it while sitting in the seat, in flight or on the ground.
-Dana
[b]
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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bob.kravis(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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john,The leg is clearly visible in the pictures on the Barnstormers listing, you'll have to search for "firefly" and you'll find Hal Mason's blue FF. bk
P.S. Wish me luck!
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:41 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote] Do you have a url for the gear leg mod on your FF?
I have been on the road and missed that one.
john hauck
mkIII
hauck's holler, alabama
[quote]
---
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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| Dana wrote: |
Without seeing the details of the installation I can't pass judgement, but sometimes strengthening the gear legs isn't such a great idea. Often the gear is the mechanical "fuse" in the system... the gear leg bends in a hard landing, whereas a stronger gear leg transfers the force (and the damage) to the much more expensive to repair fuselage.
-Dana
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JMO, but I'd go along with Dana on this too. You'd be surprised at how much R&D actually goes into landing gear on most planes. the only time you really want to modify the gear is if it's just slap too weak to start with or if the typical failure mode is dangerous and/or really expensive (i.e. leg snaps off before bending such as on my old trike).
Lovely thing about the Kolb LG is the legs take the beating before the rest of the airframe bending long before they break, as told to me by folks who've er, tested the LG to that failure mode  . Fortunately I never did on my FS II nor did even the original builder who wound up in a mesquite forest at 6 hours surprisingly enough.
Adding strength can alter both the "fuse" aspect and the failure mode into something more expensive or dangerous....
If it were me buying this particular FF, I'd look at how reversible the mod is so I could feel free to take it off if I wanted to....
JME and O,
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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At 12:04 AM 2/16/2010, John Hauck wrote:
| Quote: | | The cord wasn't routed on the 1984 Ultrastar. It came directly out of the recoil starter. |
Ah, a previous owner must have added the extra pulley then. It works quite well, though.
-Dana
--
A rolling stone .... kills worms [quote][b]
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ulflyer(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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Hey Bob K,
As a prior FireFly owner it is a fine airplane. Be leery of these guys pushing you to start making all sorts of changes. The gear is solid enough for you, belive me I've tested it. Ours was heavy and so were the two guys that flew it. It had the 20+# VLS parachute, (heavy) expansion brakes, old Kolb style larger diameter wheel barrow wheels and Shin "thin" skin tires, and the front enclosure. It wasn't a bad little airplane.
As for the gear - its just fine, no more braces, you want legs to bend not, not the cage, if it does bend, that it bends at the right point making an easier repair, you change things then what? As for the engine a 447, its a great little engine and a proven engine. We didn't have an electric starter - that becomes a safety/weigh issue. Its may safer with the starter, (issue possibility of the plane getting away from you v/s the prop striking possible standers with electric), but the pull starter wasn't a problem starting out side and getting in.
We had expansion brakes and larger 6" dia old Kolb style wheel barrow wheels which we put in a better grade of bearings which eliminated the brakes grabbing due to the sloppily cheap bearings that came in the wheels from Kolb. (I watched the demonstrator at Oshkosh with the small 5" wheels, it really worked the gear, you could see the gear flexing like a needle on a phonograph record, didn't like that.) The only change I thought about was Jack Harts thing about reducing the cord of the ailerons, but we never done it. Too uncertain what it would really do. The new owner changed out the tires from the 400x6 Chins to the wider 600x6 and stated it improved the ground handling tremendously. Odd part is neither of us (prior tail wheel pilots) had or thought there was any problem there, but if it improved it, that's good. It's a nice little bird, hope you enjoy it.
jerryb
At 08:33 AM 2/15/2010, you wrote:
[quote]Hal, the owner says it's current weight is 280#. With the Part 103 allowance for a chute it needs to be 278#. So without the battery and starter it should make legal weight.
bk
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:07 AM, lucien <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com) > wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com) >
herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote:
> Bob
>
> Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt
> 103 wt? Herb
>
> I like the extra leg brace...good luck...
>
>
I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254.
But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103?
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: Crossed Fingers on purchase |
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All
The modification to the gear legs has nothing to do with strength..The braces are to keep the legs from springing back and forth not in and out...Herb
At 11:50 AM 2/17/2010, you wrote:
[quote]Hey Bob K,
As a prior FireFly owner it is a fine airplane. Be leery of these guys pushing you to start making all sorts of changes. The gear is solid enough for you, belive me I've tested it. Ours was heavy and so were the two guys that flew it. It had the 20+# VLS parachute, (heavy) expansion brakes, old Kolb style larger diameter wheel barrow wheels and Shin "thin" skin tires, and the front enclosure. It wasn't a bad little airplane.
As for the gear - its just fine, no more braces, you want legs to bend not, not the cage, if it does bend, that it bends at the right point making an easier repair, you change things then what? As for the engine a 447, its a great little engine and a proven engine. We didn't have an electric starter - that becomes a safety/weigh issue. Its may safer with the starter, (issue possibility of the plane getting away from you v/s the prop striking possible standers with electric), but the pull starter wasn't a problem starting out side and getting in.
We had expansion brakes and larger 6" dia old Kolb style wheel barrow wheels which we put in a better grade of bearings which eliminated the brakes grabbing due to the sloppily cheap bearings that came in the wheels from Kolb. (I watched the demonstrator at Oshkosh with the small 5" wheels, it really worked the gear, you could see the gear flexing like a needle on a phonograph record, didn't like that.) The only change I thought about was Jack Harts thing about reducing the cord of the ailerons, but we never done it. Too uncertain what it would really do. The new owner changed out the tires from the 400x6 Chins to the wider 600x6 and stated it improved the ground handling tremendously. Odd part is neither of us (prior tail wheel pilots) had or thought there was any problem there, but if it improved it, that's good. It's a nice little bird, hope you enjoy it.
jerryb
At 08:33 AM 2/15/2010, you wrote:
| Quote: | Hal, the owner says it's current weight is 280#. With the Part 103 allowance for a chute it needs to be 278#. So without the battery and starter it should make legal weight.
bk
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:07 AM, lucien <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com) > wrote: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com) >
herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: > Bob > > Just looked at the pics on Barnstormers... Does it come in at pt > 103 wt? Herb > > I like the extra leg brace...good luck... > >
I spotted this one the other day too. it has a (mag end) electric start on it so I doubt it makes weight if the basic FF is within 20lbs of 254.
But I don't know that figure - anyone know offhand what the typical empty weight is on the FF in basic form intended for 103?
-------- LS Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=286541#286541
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