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Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

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rliebmann(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Hello Listers,

  

 Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough  Condition Inspection. I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect  the

 strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was  quite rusted to the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the  metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge  fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. Now I am  thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things out.

 Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If  anyone has a new set to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory  and see if they are still available.

  

 Thanks Much,  Happy  Easter,     Ron     N55KF

   

  



   [quote][b]

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Mine were the same way on my Avid.  Do yourself a favor and have them build you a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings the newer kitfox's are using on them.  They wont hold the water in and you wont have the rust issues.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

rliebmann(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Good suggestion!   I think that is what I may have to do.    Thanks,   Ron

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Mine were the same way on my Avid.  Do yourself a favor and have them 

 build you a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings 

 the newer kitfox's are using on them.  They wont hold the water in and you 

 wont have the rust issues.

MDKitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Ron,



Great to hear from you and good catch on the strut issue!  I trust retirement is working out.  I'm sure John and the Kitfox folks can take care of your strut needs.  



 Rick Weiss

N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS

SkyStar S/N 1

Port Orange, FL

 

 

On Apr 3, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:

[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann(at)comcast.net (rliebmann(at)comcast.net)>



Good suggestion!   I think that is what I may have to do.    Thanks,   Ron

[quote]

Mine were the same way on my Avid.  Do yourself a favor and have them build you a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings the newer kitfox's are using on them.  They wont hold the water in and you wont have the rust issues.

http://www.matronics.com/co=================





[b]

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:58 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric away? Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside,  ?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann <rliebmann(at)comcast.net (rliebmann(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    Hello Listers,

  

 Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection. I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the

 strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new. Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things out.

  Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if they are still available.

  

 Thanks Much,  Happy Easter,     Ron     N55KF

   

  



 	  Quote: 	
		  



arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


-- 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL

  [quote][b]

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Ron:

I ordered a pair of wing struts for a Kitfox II back in 2007.  I sent an old strut in a wooden crate.  John replicated both struts based on the one sent.  He did an outstanding job, as expected.  Something I did different this time is not to use fairings.  I want to make sure the struts are corrosion free.  Since a Kitfox II is intended to be a slow, fun machine, skipping the fairings is not an issue.  I agree it is a good idea to get the wider tubes.

Best regards!

Jose Toro

ex Kitfox II owner (still miss it)



From: Weiss Richard <MDKitfox(at)aol.com>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 8:50:14 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts



 Ron,



Great to hear from you and good catch on the strut issue!  I trust retirement is working out.  I'm sure John and the Kitfox folks can take care of your strut needs.  



 Rick Weiss

N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS

SkyStar S/N 1

Port Orange, FL

 

 

On Apr 3, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann(at)comcast.net (rliebmann(at)comcast.net)>



Good suggestion!   I think that is what I may have to do.    Thanks,   Ron

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Mine were the same way on my Avid.  Do yourself a favor and have them build you a set with the larger tubes so you can put the plastic farings the newer kitfox's are using on them.  They wont hold the water in and you wont have the rust issues.

http://www.matroni            &n            -                         &nbs  --> http://www.matronics.com/co=================



	


[/url] 	
[url=http://www.matronics.com/contribution]

  	  Quote: 	
		  

	


   



           [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

I think the preferred way is to tap along the suspect area with a  

hammer, and listen for dull sounds (like when I'm talking.  : )  )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 900.1 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs...99.9 to go(111 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

do not archive



On Apr 4, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric  

 away? Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube  

 tocheck inside,  ?



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL



 On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann  

 <rliebmann(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 Hello Listers,



 Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough Condition Inspection.  

 I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect the

 strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was quite rusted to  

 the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the  

 metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood  

 trailing edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts  

 looked as good as new. Now I am thankful that I decided to open the  

 fabric and check things out.

 Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If anyone has a new set  

 to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory and see if  

 they are still available.



 Thanks Much,  Happy Easter,     Ron     N55KF

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp:// 

 forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



 -- 

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

rliebmann(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Hi Pat,

 Since there was a small cut in the fabric about 1'  from the lower attach point, I thought it wise to open it up for a proper  inspection.

 The amount of rust that was along the full length  of the tubing was shocking. Apparently the wood fairing held moisture and it  went thru the epoxy that was used. I did use the kit supplied  epoxy.

 After I cleaned an area of the rust, I did a punch  test on it and found that the tube was still in great shape. A "sounding" test  on the tube gives me the idea that there may not be any rust on the inside.  After the testing of the tube I think that they look much worse than they  are.

 I fear that there may be many early Kitfox's out  there with similar rust, hidden from view by the fabric.

  

 Ron

 



 Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric away?  Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside,   ?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann <rliebmann(at)comcast.net (rliebmann(at)comcast.net)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		        Hello Listers,

    

   Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough    Condition Inspection. I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect    the

   strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was    quite rusted to the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the    metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing    edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new.    Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things    out.

   Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If    anyone has a new set to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory    and see if they are still available.

    

   Thanks Much,  Happy    Easter,     Ron     N55KF

       

    



 	  Quote: 	
		  



arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


-- 

Pat  Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

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pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:17 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Lots of ways to prevent rust on a steel component that will be 

covered with a permeable covering. In the auto restoration world this 

issue is rampant. Everything from harmless surface rust to eaten away 

parts that must be discarded and replaced.

Find a treatment that contains the acid that converts the steel to a 

rust proof barrier. The best treatment will be one that leaves a 

coating the prevents moisture from reaching the treated surface. Some 

experimentation will be required to be sure that the covering 

chemicals are compatible with the rust treatment coating. I cannot 

remember how the factory powder coat stands up against permeability 

to moisture. But based on my real life experience it is a very good 

coating. Anyway, a strut is important and any reuse has to be a 

correct decision. No need to make a new one stronger than the factory 

did but getting it powder coated and making sure it is sealed is the 

correct way to go.

Just remember the welding process requires a vent hole in the tube. 

Find it and plug it. The rust treatment for inside the tube is always 

an option.



So if you did not take precautions like I am discussing then it would 

be prudent to strip it and have a look.

Paul

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

The new upgraded ones are certainly available. I  opened up the struts on my model IV in the same manner as you did and found the  same thing. Looked perfect on the outside of the fabric and very rusty inside  where the wood fairings had a gap and underneath the glue. 

 [quote]   ---

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Ron:

I'm not surprised.  Mine was worse...by far.  Again, I strongly recommend NOT to use a fairing.  Like yours, mine had wood fairing.

José



From: Ron Liebmann <rliebmann(at)comcast.net>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 11:21:27 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts



         

 Hi Pat,

 Since there was a small cut in the fabric about 1'  from the lower attach point, I thought it wise to open it up for a proper  inspection.

 The amount of rust that was along the full length  of the tubing was shocking. Apparently the wood fairing held moisture and it  went thru the epoxy that was used. I did use the kit supplied  epoxy.

 After I cleaned an area of the rust, I did a punch  test on it and found that the tube was still in great shape. A "sounding" test  on the tube gives me the idea that there may not be any rust on the inside.  After the testing of the tube I think that they look much worse than they  are.

 I fear that there may be many early Kitfox's out  there with similar rust, hidden from view by the fabric.

  

 Ron

 



 Ron, How did you conduct your inspection besides cutting the fabric away?  Was the rust on the outside of tube or did you cut into tube tocheck inside,   ?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Ron Liebmann <rliebmann(at)comcast.net (rliebmann(at)comcast.net)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		        Hello Listers,

    

   Today I took my Fox home to begin a thorough    Condition Inspection. I decided to cut the fabric on a wing strut and inspect    the

   strut tubing. To my great surprise the tubing was    quite rusted to the point that I have to replace them. In 1992 I prepared the    metal, primed it well with Stits epoxy coating and glued the wood trailing    edge fairings into place. Up to this date, the struts looked as good as new.    Now I am thankful that I decided to open the fabric and check things    out.

   Now I'm in the market for both new struts. If    anyone has a new set to sell, please contact me. If not, I'll try the factory    and see if they are still available.

    

   Thanks Much,  Happy    Easter,     Ron     N55KF

       

    



 	  Quote: 	
		  


arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


	


	


-- 

Pat  Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL

 	  Quote: 	
		  


href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
 

   



           [quote][b]

Ken Potter

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Hi folks,

I do a fair bit of failure analysis work with my job as a TSB investigator. The pictures I see alarm me not from the corrosion, but the pits that I see. Each of these pits is a stress risor and may be the initiating point for a crack. With the fairings on you would never see it until the strut failed.  I am just finishing a model II with wood strut fairings.  I'm going to fly it for a year or two and then look into modifications to allow the fairings to be removed at the annual for inspection.

Cheers

Ken

_________________
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
C-FJKP
Lanark, Ontario

dwight purdy

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 85

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Are the extruded aluminum like are on the Rans too heavy? They were also a 

replacement option on the Hawks.



Dwight Purdy

Model II

---

_________________
dwight
model II

Wes Bender

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 4

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

I know a lot of Avid owners follow this list.  (I'm one.)  If you are thinking about flying your Avid without the lift strut wood fairings, you should reconsider.  The fairings are not optional equipment.  They add strength to the strut under compression loads.  See AD (Avid Directory) #7, available under the files section of the Avid Yahoo group.  That AD covers mandatory installation of flaperon counterweights and strut speed fairings.



Regards,



Wes



[quote="jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com"]Ron:

I'm not surprised.  Mine was worse...by far.  Again, I strongly recommend NOT to use a fairing. ï¿½Like yours, mine had wood fairing.

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

The Avid AD

Avid AD 007.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Avid AD 007.pdf

Filesize:

84.69 KB

Downloaded:

524 Time(s)

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Wes:

  

 I don't recall a similar AD for the Kitfox II.  My former Kitfox II has been flown without fairings since 2007.  No problem.  However, it seems to me like a good idea to order the model II struts using the wider tubes, like in the Kitfox IV.

  

 Best regards!

  

 José



 

   From: Wes Bender <bender_wes(at)yahoo.com>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 12:04:16 PM

Subject: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Wes Bender" <bender_wes(at)yahoo.com (bender_wes(at)yahoo.com)>



I know a lot of Avid owners follow this list.  (I'm one.)  If you are thinking about flying your Avid without the lift strut wood fairings, you should reconsider.  The fairings are not optional equipment.  They add strength to the strut under compression loads.  See AD (Avid Directory) #7, available under the files section of the Avid Yahoo group.  That AD covers mandatory installation of  flaperon counterweights and strut speed fairings.



Regards,



Wes



[quote="jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com"]Ron:

I'm not surprised.  Mine was worse...by far.  Again, I strongly recommend NOT to use a fairing. ï¿½Like yours, mine had wood fairing.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293049#293049



gt; http://forums.matronics.cp;                     -Mcs.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution<=============



         [quote][b]

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

I flew mine without the strut fairings for awhile, but I have alot heavier tubes.  This biggest surprise to me when I put the fairings on was the increase in climb rate of about 250 FPM.  the extra 5 mph or so in cruise was not that big a deal to me, but I liked the climb increase!

rliebmann(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Thanks Wes,                                 do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		   I know a lot of Avid owners follow this list.  (I'm one.)  If you are 

 thinking about flying your Avid without the lift strut wood fairings, you 

 should reconsider.  The fairings are not optional equipment.  They add 

 strength to the strut under compression loads.  See AD (Avid Directory) 

 #7, available under the files section of the Avid Yahoo group.  That AD 

 covers mandatory installation of flaperon counterweights and strut speed 

 fairings.



 Regards,



 Wes

carlisle

Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 72
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

I've flown my Model 2 for almost 20 yrs without the fairings without a problem.  Does anyone know if replacing with the larger diameter tubing changes the maximum gross weight?  An extra 100 lb (current gross is 950) would open up a whole new world of sharing for me.



Chris

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: Model 2 Kitfox wing struts

Gross weight?  I thought it was just a suggestion!  :>)



Pete

---

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