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Thermozite in the Tunnel...

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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

For those of you who are wanting to use Thermozite in the tunnel, you should watch this video I shot last night.  

   

Thermozite is the material that is sold by Flight line Interiors as an insulator.  I think it would be a great insulator in the right application such as under carpet, etc…  But it’s certainly a terrible choice to put in the tunnel (unless you like to roast marshmallows or choke on fumes.)  J  

   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mG7qAGdBc  

   

At this point, I’ll probably not insulate the inside of the tunnel at all.  I’ll probably insulate the forward side of the firewall and/or simply firesleeve the fuel lines in the tunnel.   

   

I do like the idea of the extinguisher under the cowl though.  As long as those heater vents are close (or not warped) when you mash the big red button.    

   

Phil  

   

   

   

   

      [quote][b]

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

Good video Phil but doesn’t surprise me much.  I don’t believe it is intended to withstand the heat from a fuel fed fire, just to block radiant heat.  I’ve been considering using either the HeatShield Mat or Lava Mat from HeatShield products.  The latter can withstand 1100 degrees of direct heat.  

   

http://heatshieldproducts.com/heat_shield_mat.php  

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil

 Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:21 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...  

  

  

   

For those of you who are wanting to use Thermozite in the tunnel, you should watch this video I shot last night.  

   

Thermozite is the material that is sold by Flight line Interiors as an insulator.  I think it would be a great insulator in the right application such as under carpet, etc…  But it’s certainly a terrible choice to put in the tunnel (unless you like to roast marshmallows or choke on fumes.)  J  

   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mG7qAGdBc  

   

At this point, I’ll probably not insulate the inside of the tunnel at all.  I’ll probably insulate the forward side of the firewall and/or simply firesleeve the fuel lines in the tunnel.   

   

I do like the idea of the extinguisher under the cowl though.  As long as those heater vents are close (or not warped) when you mash the big red button.    

   

Phil  

   

   

   

    	  Quote: 	
		    ;         - The RV10-List Email Forhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.================[/b]< Same great content also available via the Web Forums![/b] 	
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tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

Well IMO, if you've got a fuel fire in the tunnel, the composition of any insulation in there is the least of your worries.  I don't see why putting that stuff in the tunnel would really be any worse than any other place inside the cabin as leaking fuel could easily spread under the seats/floorboards/carpet, etc.  Of course, I agree that given the choice, I'd rather pick material that is less flammable, but I also would prefer to use it throughout the cabin and not just for the tunnel. Totally agree that it would be a bad choice for the engine side of the firewall.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:46 am Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

It's a lousy choice for the interior side too.   What was demonstrated was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat caught the interior insulation on fire.  

 

 The stainless firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great material for conducting heat straight through to the other side.

 

 The concept is that it doesn't make sense to put a flammable item on the aft side of the firewall.  If you have a fire on the engine side, you'll have a fire on the interior side too and your firewall is worthless at that point.  

 

 I've seen Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone needs to think about.  

 

 Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It needs to be used as a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is playing with fire. 

 

 Phil

 

 ---

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

Me thinks if you use this or any insulator to reduce or contain ambient heat in the tunnel or cabin side of the firewall, you are probably OK.  If however you have to contend with multi thousand degree heat on the tunnel or firewall for any sustained period, you have MUCH bigger concerns--primary of which is to get the plane down and out of it.  You don't care what happens after because the insurance company now owns it.

 

 Many planes have been flying around with nothing on the firewall.  Most anything is better than nothing, but you also don't need to line your tunnel or firewall with space shuttle heat tiles or equivalent.

  -- 

William

N40237 - http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:

 [quote]   

For those of you who are wanting to use Thermozite in the tunnel, you should watch this video I shot last night. 

  

Thermozite is the material that is sold by Flight line Interiors as an insulator.  I think it would be a great insulator in the right application such as under carpet, etc…  But it’s certainly a terrible choice to put in the tunnel (unless you like to roast marshmallows or choke on fumes.)  J  

  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4mG7qAGdBc 

  

At this point, I’ll probably not insulate the inside of the tunnel at all.  I’ll probably insulate the forward side of the firewall and/or simply firesleeve the fuel lines in the tunnel.  

  

I do like the idea of the extinguisher under the cowl though.  As long as those heater vents are close (or not warped) when you mash the big red button.   

  

Phil



[b]

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

For those concerned about fire, you should consider a fire  bottle. Mine does not, but could be plumbed into the tunnel also. Mine will  flood the engine compartment and aft of the baffles with 15 pounds of Halon gas.  First order of business is fuel selector to OFF and pull the pin and push the  fire handle. For carbureted engines plumb a line into the carburetor air  intake. 

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry,  Phil

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:46 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Thermozite in the  Tunnel...

It's a lousy choice for the interior side too.   What  was demonstrated was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat  caught the interior insulation on fire.  

The stainless  firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great material for conducting  heat straight through to the other side.

The concept is that it doesn't  make sense to put a flammable item on the aft side of the firewall.  If you  have a fire on the engine side, you'll have a fire on the interior side too and  your firewall is worthless at that point.  

I've seen  Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone needs to think  about.  

Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It  needs to be used as a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is  playing with fire. 

Phil

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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]  

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:19 PM

To:  'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'

Subject: RE: Re: Thermozite in  the Tunnel...

 For those concerned about fire, you should consider a fire  bottle. Mine does not, but could be plumbed into the tunnel also. Mine will  flood the engine compartment and aft of the baffles with 15 pounds of Halon gas.  First order of business is fuel selector to OFF and pull the pin and push the  fire handle. For carbureted engines plumb a line into the carburetor air  intake. 

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry,  Phil

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:46 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Thermozite in the  Tunnel...

It's a lousy choice for the interior side too.   What  was demonstrated was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat  caught the interior insulation on fire.  

The stainless  firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great material for conducting  heat straight through to the other side.

The concept is that it doesn't  make sense to put a flammable item on the aft side of the firewall.  If you  have a fire on the engine side, you'll have a fire on the interior side too and  your firewall is worthless at that point.  

I've seen  Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone needs to think  about.  

Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It  needs to be used as a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is  playing with fire. 

Phil

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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

Hey David,



What about the heater boxes?  Having halon in the cabin (or tunnel) concerns me. 



I'd like to put one in, but just want to make sure I understand the risks before making a decision. 



Phil

 

  From: DLM <dlm46007(at)cox.net> 

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <rv10-list(at)matronics.com> 

Sent: Wed Apr 07 13:32:06 2010

Subject: FW: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the Tunnel... 

   



   From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]  

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:19 PM

To:  'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'

Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in  the Tunnel...

 

 For those concerned about fire, you should consider a fire  bottle. Mine does not, but could be plumbed into the tunnel also. Mine will  flood the engine compartment and aft of the baffles with 15 pounds of Halon gas.  First order of business is fuel selector to OFF and pull the pin and push the  fire handle. For carbureted engines plumb a line into the carburetor air  intake. 



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry,  Phil

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:46 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Thermozite in the  Tunnel...

 

 

It's a lousy choice for the interior side too.   What  was demonstrated was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat  caught the interior insulation on fire.  



The stainless  firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great material for conducting  heat straight through to the other side.



The concept is that it doesn't  make sense to put a flammable item on the aft side of the firewall.  If you  have a fire on the engine side, you'll have a fire on the interior side too and  your firewall is worthless at that point.  



I've seen  Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone needs to think  about.  



Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It  needs to be used as a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is  playing with fire. 



Phil



---

seipel(at)seznam.cz
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

I'll play devil's advocate here on one aspect of your test.



No argument that a fuel fed fire is probably going to cause the 

insulation to break down and produce fumes; at that point, so is the 

melting wiring in your panel, your seats, and anything else that's 

getting that hot.



I would argue that it might not have been the radiant heat that caused 

it to catch fire, however, but the fumes that drifted around the sides 

of your tiny piece of aluminum and right into the giant flame on your torch.



You might (or might not) see a different result with a much larger piece 

of aluminum such that the fumes are not drifting directly into the 

ignition source.



PJ Seipel

RV-10 #40032



On 4/7/2010 3:46 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:

[quote] It's a lousy choice for the interior side too.  What was demonstrated

 was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat caught the

 interior insulation on fire.



 The stainless firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great

 material for conducting heat straight through to the other side.



 The concept is that it doesn't make sense to put a flammable item on the

 aft side of the firewall. If you have a fire on the engine side, you'll

 have a fire on the interior side too and your firewall is worthless at

 that point.



 I've seen Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone

 needs to think about.



 Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It needs to be used as

 a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is playing with fire. 



 Phil



 ---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:39 pm Post subject: Thermozite in the Tunnel...

I think a person will know about the fire in the engine  compartment (engine instruments) before anything starts melting out there.  If you get smoke in the heat ducts close them, shut off the fuel and fire the  bottle. Most Halon will be expended in the engine compartment. The sprayers can  be tailored for flow. Certainly Halon is not something to breath but a little  beats a lot of smoke and CO. I don't have the statistics but I believe that  cabin fires are usually started by smokers or electrical shorts. Engine fires  are fuel fed forward of the firewall. On that basis I do not allow smoking in  the aircraft; all appliances are on individual breakers to quickly shutoff power  to a failed circuit. and a fire bottle can be used to cool and snuff out an  engine fire.

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry,  Phil

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:58 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Thermozite in the  Tunnel...

 Hey David,

What about the heater  boxes? Having halon in the cabin (or tunnel) concerns me. 

I'd like to  put one in, but just want to make sure I understand the risks before making a  decision. 

Phil

   From: DLM <dlm46007(at)cox.net>  

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>  

Sent: Wed Apr 07 13:32:06 2010

Subject: FW: Re:  Thermozite in the Tunnel... 

   From: DLM [mailto:dlm46007(at)cox.net]  

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:19 PM

To:  'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'

Subject: RE: Re: Thermozite in  the Tunnel...

 For those concerned about fire, you should consider a fire  bottle. Mine does not, but could be plumbed into the tunnel also. Mine will  flood the engine compartment and aft of the baffles with 15 pounds of Halon gas.  First order of business is fuel selector to OFF and pull the pin and push the  fire handle. For carbureted engines plumb a line into the carburetor air  intake. 

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry,  Phil

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:46 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Thermozite in the  Tunnel...

It's a lousy choice for the interior side too.   What  was demonstrated was a fuel fire on the forward side and the radiated heat  caught the interior insulation on fire.  

The stainless  firewall will do great blocking flames, but its a great material for conducting  heat straight through to the other side.

The concept is that it doesn't  make sense to put a flammable item on the aft side of the firewall.  If you  have a fire on the engine side, you'll have a fire on the interior side too and  your firewall is worthless at that point.  

I've seen  Thermozite insulating many tunnels and it's something everyone needs to think  about.  

Its pretty lousy for any fire related protection. It  needs to be used as a light weight thermal barrier only. Anything else is  playing with fire. 

Phil

---

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