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Ampreg 21

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Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:30 am Post subject: Ampreg 21

There may be a problem for UK builders using Ampreg 21.



Having noticed that the latest build manuals on the Europa website had, for some time, listed Ampreg 21 as the supplied resin and after confirming with Martin Armstrong at SP Systems (Gurit) that Ampreg 20 had finally been stopped, I ordered some Ampreg 21.



As I am mid way through a project, I telephoned Andy Draper at the LAA before Easter to find out if I needed to record in my build record that I had changed resin types.  I was quite surprised when he stated that to his knowledge, Europa / Swift had not contacted the LAA about the change of resin.  He went on to say that as the original testing and type approval had been approved using Ampreg 20, the LAA would need to look at the properties of Ampreg 21 to decide if it was a suitable alternative.  Although he stated that he did not foresee there would be a problem approving the alternative resin, he left me with the impression that it would be unwise to use it until it had been approved and suggested that an update to the Europa TAD on the LAA website would be needed and that I should look out for this.



Has anyone else been told this?



A telephone call to the Europa office was met with equal surprise that the LAA were questioning the use of Ampreg 21.  I telephoned Andy Draper again this week and he stated that he had looked at the properties of both resins and had some concerns over the glass temperature (Tg) of Ampreg 21 which fell short of that for Ampreg 20.  He went on to say that they had requested further details from SP Systems.



I would guess that a lot of builders are already using Ampreg 21 on the basis that it is listed in the current build manual.  This could be a big problem for UK builders, especially as it is the LAA who ultimately have to sign off the build and issue a permit.



Have any other resins been approved for use in the UK?

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_________________
Regards

Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk

flyingphil2

Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 117

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Ampreg 21

You are joking ...... ?



I have a huge tin of the stuff supplied by Europa just before Christmas.

Fortunately I've not done anything with it but was planning too in the next couple of weeks.



I guess that leaves the 'West' system that is allowed in some of the mods?



Phil

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Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Ampreg 21

Phil



I know Europa have suggested some alternatives in previous Mod leaflets:



"acceptable alternative structural epoxy resin systems may be used. Some suitable alternatives are Schueffler L285/H286, West Systems 105/205 and Aeropoxy PR2032/PH3660. The use of materials other than those listed above will require approval from Europa Aircraft."



But it might be worth checking with the LAA that they are happy.  It would seem that, in the UK anyway, they have the final say.  On paper, the West system even falls short of the Ampreg 21 in terms of properties.  Andy did say that providing the Ampreg 21 properties are within acceptable limits, it is the way to go.



Regards



Kelv Weston

Kit 497

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john.heykoop(at)googlemai
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: Ampreg 21

I believe I was the first UK builder to use Ampreg 21. I ran out of Ampreg 20 while doing finishing work. Europa eventually supplied me with Ampreg 21 after talking to the LAA who gave informal approval.



 I suspect that someone at the LAA said it was OK to use Ampreg 21, having been told that it was going to be used for finishing, and that Europa misunderstood this as general approval for Ampreg 21 as a replacement for Ampreg 20.

 



Like others who have reported on Ampreg 21 I was not terribly happy with the stuff. No doubt better for the environment (and for my health), but I preferred working with Ampreg 20.

 John Heykoop

Europa XS mono G-JHKP (Kit #537)

(being painted)



 



On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Kelvin Weston <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)>

  

 There may be a problem for UK builders using Ampreg 21.

 

 Having noticed that the latest build manuals on the Europa website had, for some time, listed Ampreg 21 as the supplied resin and after confirming with Martin Armstrong at SP Systems (Gurit) that Ampreg 20 had finally been stopped, I ordered some Ampreg 21.

  

 As I am mid way through a project, I telephoned Andy Draper at the LAA before Easter to find out if I needed to record in my build record that I had changed resin types.  I was quite surprised when he stated that to his knowledge, Europa / Swift had not contacted the LAA about the change of resin.  He went on to say that as the original testing and type approval had been approved using Ampreg 20, the LAA would need to look at the properties of Ampreg 21 to decide if it was a suitable alternative.  Although he stated that he did not foresee there would be a problem approving the alternative resin, he left me with the impression that it would be unwise to use it until it had been approved and suggested that an update to the Europa TAD on the LAA website would be needed and that I should look out for this.

  

 Has anyone else been told this?

 

 A telephone call to the Europa office was met with equal surprise that the LAA were questioning the use of Ampreg 21.  I telephoned Andy Draper again this week and he stated that he had looked at the properties of both resins and had some concerns over the glass temperature (Tg) of Ampreg 21 which fell short of that for Ampreg 20.  He went on to say that they had requested further details from SP Systems.

  

 I would guess that a lot of builders are already using Ampreg 21 on the basis that it is listed in the current build manual.  This could be a big problem for UK builders, especially as it is the LAA who ultimately have to sign off the build and issue a permit.

  

 Have any other resins been approved for use in the UK?

 

 --------

 Regards

 

 Kelv Weston

 Kit 497

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294314#294314

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: Ampreg 21

John and all I had run out of good hardener and could not  get more when the Ampreg stopped -

 Hence had to dispose of about 10 containers!

 Didn't like that!

  

 JR (Bob) Gowing 327 in Oz

  

 ---

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