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step drills etc

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jrlark

Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 72

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: step drills etc

Hi all

  

 I'm just about done with my elevator construction  and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet  the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates.  The plans call out  for LP4-3 rivets.  I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't  figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here.  Can anyone shed some  light on why I need to use LP4-3's?

  

 Question 2:  Can anyone tell me how to  properly use a step drill?  I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years  and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use.  I've now  bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem  to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either.  Case in point, when I  tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would  have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole.  What  am I missing????

  

 Regards,  Rick

  

 #40956

 Southampton, Ont

  

  

   [quote][b]

ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: step drills etc

Rick,



Don't use rivets at all to attach those brackets, use machine screws and stopnuts. You will need to rotate the brackets when rigging the trim, just bolt them up when you have them adjusted.



I'm not sure what the problem with the step drill except you ARE drilling an hole first before using the drill right? They don't start holes very well.



Rick Sked

N246RS

Annual time!!

---- Rick and Sandra Lark <jrlark(at)bmts.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all

 

 I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates.  The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets.  I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here.  Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's?

 

 Question 2:  Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill?  I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use.  I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either.  Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole.  What am I missing????

 

 Regards,  Rick

 

 #40956

 Southampton, Ont

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: step drills etc

I would guess you might be using the “Harbor Freight” type step drill.  They tend to make rough, less than round holes.  I bought a set figuring I could save a few dollars.  Big mistake.  

   

Try a Unibit brand step drill.  Smooth hole every time.  If your local Lowes/Home Depot should have them.  If not, Cleaveland Tools does: http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/products.asp?dept=21  

   

   

Carl Froehlich  

RV-8A (540 hrs)  

RV-10 (systems install)  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick and Sandra Lark

 Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:06 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: step drills etc  

  

  

     

Hi all  

    

   

    

I'm just about done with my elevator construction and while I'm waiting for the prosealed trailing edges to set up I went to rivet the trim cable attachment brackets to the cover plates.  The plans call out for LP4-3 rivets.  I've bought the Cleveland Tools brackets but I can't figure out why solid rivets wouldn't be used here.  Can anyone shed some light on why I need to use LP4-3's?  

    

   

    

Question 2:  Can anyone tell me how to properly use a step drill?  I've been a woodworker for more than 30 years and have never had a hand tool I couldn't figure out how to use.  I've now bought 2 different sized drills thinking the first one was a dud, but can't seem to get the newer one to work worth a d**n either.  Case in point, when I tried to drill out the .060" front elevator spar for the snap bushing, I would have bent the spar before I forced it to drill the proper sizes hole.  What am I missing????  

    

   

    

Regards,  Rick  

    

   

    

#40956  

    

Southampton, Ont  

    

   

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		    	
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rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: step drills etc

Drill into a piece of scrap first to make sure sizing is accurate or your snap bushings will be loose. My first one was not. 



I used LP-4's but will change out to screws/miniature nut plates later on.

_________________
Wayne G.

jrlark

Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 72

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: step drills etc

Hmmm....Yes you're right Carl.  Both drills  were cheap Harbor Freight type drills.  I don't usually go the cheap route  when it comes to tools.  Not sure now why I even tried.  I'll look for  a "good" drill.  Thx

  

 Rick

 [quote]   ---

jrlark

Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 72

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: step drills etc

Ok, thx Rick.  I kind of wondered about those brackets.  I probably will 

just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start rigging, which 

appears to be a ways down the road.



I have to ask another question.  At this point (elevators just about 

complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project.  I noticed on Tim O's web 

site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point.....  I must be really slow 

or?????    How much time did other builders have at this stage?



I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want it 

done correctly.  Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??



All opinions appreciated.



Rick Lark

#40956



---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: step drills etc

I've found that while I think most people *can* move as quick through

the project as I did, if they want to, that I may be a little bit

quicker than many.  The thing is, I think I really did devote myself

to the project when I was on it, and when I wasn't, I really wasn't.

The more consistent you work on it, and the more you plan ahead, the

faster it goes.  I didn't cut corners or do sloppy work, and in fact

worried at first that I was being WAY too anal for the first 50 or

100 hours.  But, I just really went to it, and got in the groove.

I think if someone has no big family obligations on a daily basis,

and doesn't have too many other irons in the fire, that you'd likely

easily complete any RV-10 in 3 years.  But, most people have obligations

and other things going on.  I was lucky enough to even have a wife that

mowed the lawn every time it needed it, so that I didn't have to.

With a partner like that, it was easy to finish in 25 months...I could

even go much quicker next time if I wanted.  I even had to take care

of kids as a single-parent-at-home most evenings, when they were 2,3,4,5

years old, so I did it with plenty of things going on.  It's just

a matter of focus and consistent work. Plus...I *really* wanted it

done. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Rick and Sandra Lark wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Ok, thx Rick.  I kind of wondered about those brackets.  I probably will 

 just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start rigging, 

 which appears to be a ways down the road.

 

 I have to ask another question.  At this point (elevators just about 

 complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project.  I noticed on Tim O's 

 web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point.....  I must be really 

 slow or?????    How much time did other builders have at this stage?

 

 I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want 

 it done correctly.  Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??

 

 All opinions appreciated.

 

 Rick Lark

 #40956

 

 ---

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: step drills etc

I stopped trying to track time, oh, around doing the vertical stab.

Work goes a lot faster when you don't waste time tracking it. I know

of at least one kit that is below ser. no 40050 that is no where near

putting the major parts together, much less finishing. Enjoy the

build, satisfy your own quality requirements, and it will be done when

it is done.

Kelly

40866

Fuselage/fuel system



On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Rick and Sandra Lark <jrlark(at)bmts.com> wrote:

 .

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I have to ask another question.  At this point (elevators just about

 complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project.  I noticed on Tim O's web

 site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point.....  I must be really slow

 or?????    How much time did other builders have at this stage?



 I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want it

 done correctly.  Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??



 All opinions appreciated.



 Rick Lark

 #40956

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: step drills etc

My experience with the HF strep bits is that they work fine for x holes 

(x being dependent on the material drilled). Then suddenly, they seem to 

wear through a very thin, hardened surface on the bit, and become 

completely non-functioning junk.



Having said that, the HF bits are a good value (!!!). I forget the 

prices but you can get a set of 3 bits for about the 1/3 the cost of 1 

quality bit. I'm on my second set having worn 2 bits out but my '10 is 

close to finished (did I say that?). I have a quality bit which I'm 

saving for any more firewall SS holes but there's little other steel on 

the aircraft. I used the HF bits on aluminum and composite and I'm 

prepared to ruin 1 or 2 more bits if necessary.



To use the HF bits, you just have to be ready to chuck them as soon as 

they don't seem to be cutting. But on sale, they are really cheap and I 

have room to store them. YMMV.



Bill



Rick and Sandra Lark wrote:

[quote] Hmmm....Yes you're right Carl. Both drills were cheap Harbor Freight 

 type drills. I don't usually go the cheap route when it comes to 

 tools. Not sure now why I even tried. I'll look for a "good" drill. Thx

 Rick



     ---

ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: step drills etc

Enjoy the process. My Dad got sick and passed away during my  

build...during that time all I knew was I couldn't park my car in the  

garage because of my "project" which was nothing in comparison to my  

life at the time My total build time is about 2400 hours, or 5 years 4  

months and 23 days. Build time is like a fingerprint...no two are the  

same. Perserverance is the best ribbon they can give you at Osh....



Rick



Sent from my iPhone



On May 24, 2010, at 7:56 PM, "Rick and Sandra Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com>  

wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 Ok, thx Rick.  I kind of wondered about those brackets.  I probably  

 will just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start  

 rigging, which appears to be a ways down the road.



 I have to ask another question.  At this point (elevators just about  

 complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project.  I noticed on Tim  

 O's web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point.....  I must  

 be really slow or?????    How much time did other builders have at  

 this stage?



 I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still  

 want it done correctly.  Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??



 All opinions appreciated.



 Rick Lark

 #40956



 ---

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: step drills etc

I watched this carefully...

http://www.airspacemag.com/multimedia/videos/Go-For-Launch.html



... and I noticed a lot of people standing around with their hands in 

their pockets.  I can relate.  Although my project is a one man effort 

(with critical assistance from my rivet bucker and life partner Alicia), 

I spend plenty of time standing around admiring the kit, my progress, my 

lack of progress, thinking about future progress, smoking a cigar, 

watching the Waco depart, and otherwise scritching my cat.  These are 

the best of times.



Now, I have to admit that I have a Maule to fly when the mood strikes, 

but I increasingly find myself forcing the issue just to maintain some 

proficiency (or to get from A to B).  Fact is, standing around with my 

hands in my pockets trying to remember what I planned to do is a lot 

more fun.. sort of.



Enjoy the process and remember it's not work.



Bill "trying to get comfortable with my progress as a 4th anniversary 

approaches"  Watson



Rick and Sandra Lark wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   ....snippetysnip

 I have to ask another question.  At this point (elevators just about 

 complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project.  I noticed on Tim O's 

 web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point.....  I must be 

 really slow or?????    How much time did other builders have at this 

 stage?



 I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still want 

 it done correctly.  Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??



 All opinions appreciated.



 Rick Lark

 #40956

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: step drills etc

Rick



Everyone builds at different speeds. I suspect I am about the same time hours wise as you.  So donâ€™t worry about it take your time pay close attention to the details and you will be fine.



John G. Cumins

40864 Mounted elevators to horz stab Emp almost complete



--

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: step drills etc

Here here.  Approaching 5 years and I am just finishing the wings.  Good 

part is that avionics and after market "stuff" just keeps getting better 

the longer it takes me.  Bad part is that kit, engine and prop prices 

keep going up the longer it takes me. 



-Sean #40303

http://rv10.stephensville.com



On 5/24/10 10:58 PM, Rick wrote:

[quote] 



 Enjoy the process. My Dad got sick and passed away during my 

 build...during that time all I knew was I couldn't park my car in the 

 garage because of my "project" which was nothing in comparison to my 

 life at the time My total build time is about 2400 hours, or 5 years 4 

 months and 23 days. Build time is like a fingerprint...no two are the 

 same. Perserverance is the best ribbon they can give you at Osh....



 Rick



 Sent from my iPhone



 On May 24, 2010, at 7:56 PM, "Rick and Sandra Lark" <jrlark(at)bmts.com> 

 wrote:



> 

> <jrlark(at)bmts.com>

>

> Ok, thx Rick.  I kind of wondered about those brackets.  I probably 

> will just leave them detached from the cover plates until I start 

> rigging, which appears to be a ways down the road.

>

> I have to ask another question.  At this point (elevators just about 

> complete), I have 300 man hrs into this project.  I noticed on Tim 

> O's web site, he had about 170 hrs at this same point.....  I must be 

> really slow or?????    How much time did other builders have at this 

> stage?

>

> I don't want to set a record as the slowest RV10 build, but still 

> want it done correctly.  Maybe I'm a little anal retentive??

>

> All opinions appreciated.

>

> Rick Lark

> #40956

>

> ---

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: step drills etc

It depends alot on how you track time. I just write start and end time right on the plans as I check off the steps. At the end of the section go back and add the highlighted times up. My time starts when I am actually working with tools/parts in my hand. I don't count ordering, a picture every now and then, lunch/supper breaks, or reading plans before work starts. 



It also depends on how much you spent on tools up front, shop conditions, your mechanical ability and comfort using tools that can hurt if not used correctly. Like most said...just enjoy the build, hang some pics of finished rv's/trip pics like I did for motivation, fly/hang out with at least one other builder/rv owner for motivation which I do, and save as much $$$ as possible for the next piece but lastly don't forget the family. My wonderful wife of 21 yrs is a really good riveter now...only had to drill out 2 or 3 so far. My 10 & 7 yr olds are good at clecoing and placing rivets for Dad.

_________________
Wayne G.

jrlark

Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 72

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: step drills etc

Guys



Thx for the advise and words of encouragement concerning build times.



I really am enjoying building this aircraft.  Maybe that's why I'm so slow, 

I'm savoring it too much  



Tim you are one lucky man to have a spouse that mowed the lawn while you 

built.  Having said that I don't think I'd trust my wife with the mower 

anyway.



I will keep working away at it, and as someone said, "it'll be done when 

it's done".



Thx,  Rick

#40956

Southampton, Ont

 	  Quote:

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: step drills etc

 Yes, I'm lucky, but trust me, every time I tell someone how

it was fun for "me to build an RV-10", she constantly reminds me

that the only reason I was able to do it was because she picked

up a lot of the loose ends around the house.   I appreciate the

heck out of her though.  I'm very lucky we had the same goals.

Like the others said, enjoy it and make the build the way YOU want

it.  Some want a relaxing building hobby...that's awesome. Some

see building as the journey to the reward at the end of the rainbow,

and they want to get there quick.  Each person can approach it

with the level of "push" that they want.  The part that gets tough

is when you want it done soon, but you don't want to dig in.  I

spent countless nights laying awake just honestly praying for

spirit of dedication to the task, to enable me to make it though

the project at a rate that would satisfy the burning want to get

it done before I got too impatient to appreciate the time spent.

It's a very tough mental exercise to take on such a project if

you're impatient for the end result, as I was, because you

constantly have to see the light at the end of the tunnel lest

you let it break your spirit if you become discouraged.  It's

one of the reasons I usually recommend saving enough money ahead

of time to finish the kit before your money pile runs out....because

if someone is really driven for that end result, it IS possible

to build the entire plane in such a short timeline that you

can easily get to the major spending sections before you have

the money saved.  You start on the tail, and the next thing you

know you're buying your panel.  For some people, patience comes

easy....for others (me), it was a learned thing on this project.

Thankfully there are numerous "I finished" experiences throughout

the process, as each section is completed.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Rick Lark wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Guys

 

 Thx for the advise and words of encouragement concerning build times.

 

 I really am enjoying building this aircraft.  Maybe that's why I'm so 

 slow, I'm savoring it too much  

 

 Tim you are one lucky man to have a spouse that mowed the lawn while you 

 built.  Having said that I don't think I'd trust my wife with the mower 

 anyway.

 

 I will keep working away at it, and as someone said, "it'll be done when 

 it's done".

 

 Thx,  Rick

 #40956

 Southampton, Ont

fixitauto(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: step drills etc

Ordered my kit 40079 on Thursday at osk the year vans started selling them

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