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GROUND LOOPS

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tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: GROUND LOOPS

So I left my Aerolectric book at work and have a quick question.   

Composite A/C, rear engine, Battery.  

IIRC, I will need to run power and ground runs to the Strobe power pack, Fuel Pump and Nav lights, the grounds running all the way back up to the panel ground. I can’t just hit the local ground that is right there at the Battery near these components. Is this correct practice?  I’d be tempted to use the Firewall ground for the NAV and Fuel pump.   

   

 (rnbraud(at)yahoo.com)   

Thanks, Tim Andres  

       [quote][b]

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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: GROUND LOOPS

If you just keep it going straight, no ground loops!



Mauledriver (sorry)



do not archive



Tim Andres wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 So I left my Aerolectric book at work and have a quick question.



 Composite A/C, rear engine, Battery.



 IIRC, I will need to run power and ground runs to the Strobe power 

 pack, Fuel Pump and Nav lights, the grounds running all the way back 

 up to the panel ground. I can’t just hit the local ground that is 

 right there at the Battery near these components. Is this correct 

 practice? I’d be tempted to use the Firewall ground for the NAV and 

 Fuel pump.



 Thanks, Tim Andres



 *

 *

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject: GROUND LOOPS

At 11:16 AM 8/10/2010, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   So I left my Aerolectric book at work and have a quick question. 

 Composite A/C, rear engine, Battery.

 IIRC, I will need to run power and ground runs to the Strobe power pack, Fuel Pump and Nav lights, the grounds running all the way back up to the panel ground. I can’t just hit the local ground that is right there at the Battery near these components. Is this correct practice?  I’d be tempted to use the Firewall ground for the NAV and Fuel pump. 	


   These devices are neither potential antagonists

   or victims. As shown in Z-15, they can be grounded

   "locally" on a metal airplane. This translates

   to "closest practical" locations on a plastic

   airplane,



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

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tomcostanza

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:33 am Post subject: Re: GROUND LOOPS

Hey Bob,



Could you explain, or point me to an explanation of, what kinds of things qualify as antagonists?  From your reply to this question, it's clear I don't understand.

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_________________
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
-- in year 17 of a 3 year project

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:59 am Post subject: GROUND LOOPS

At 05:33 AM 8/11/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>



Hey Bob,



Could you explain, or point me to an explanation of, what kinds of 

things qualify as antagonists?  From your reply to this question, 

it's clear I don't understand.


	


    99% of the time, antagonists are generally those devices

    which generate noise in the form of electrical "wiggles".

    These include radios that are poorly shielded. Motors. Strobe

    power supplies. Certainly alternators. Instruments with

    poorly shielded/filtered LCD power supplies. Switchmode

    power adapters common to many hand-held devices including

    GPS, cellphones, PDA, MP3 players, etc.



    There are some instances where non-wigglers like incandescent

    landing lights, pitot heaters, nav lights, etc can influence

    other systems . . . like the example I gave for poorly grounded

    engine instruments being affected by variations in current

    flowing through a crankcase-to-battery ground conductor.



    Even if the device IS a potential antagonist (like a strobe

    power supply), not carrying it's power ground back to a

    single point does not represent a risk as long as POTENTIAL

    victims do not share the same ground path.



    This is discussed in some detail in chapter 16 of the

    'Connection. In that work I attempt to explain that

    potential victims and antagonists can and do coexist

    in airplanes as long as you make sure there is no

    PROPAGATION mode for the conveyance of malicious

    energy between them. Breaking of propagation pathways

    includes but is not limited to certain kinds of shielding,

    filters, modification of design to reduce noise and

    installation practices to eliminate shared ground paths.



    I can tell you that airplanes like the Beechjet have

    HUGE potential antagonists, and exceedingly vulnerable

    victims that for the most part have worked side by side

    for a long time. This is a design goal for every TC

    aircraft and should be a goal for OBAM aircraft as well.



    The vast majority of your potential victims reside on

    the panel. Judicious attention to grounding at the

    panel will greatly reduce potential for problems

    no matter how your ground other accessories scattered

    about the airplane.

   Bob . . .

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tomcostanza

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:52 am Post subject: Re: GROUND LOOPS

Bob,



OK.  Maybe I understood more than I thought.  What you wrote in your reply to me, is what I thought was an antagonist (motor, strobe power supply).  But in your earlier response to Tim (the one that confused me), you said a fuel pump (motor) and strobe power supply were not potential antagonists (hence my confusion).  What am I missing?



 	  Quote: 	
		  Quote: 

So I left my Aerolectric book at work and have a quick question. 

Composite A/C, rear engine, Battery. 

IIRC, I will need to run power and ground runs to the Strobe power pack, Fuel Pump and Nav lights, the grounds running all the way back up to the panel ground. I canï¿½t just hit the local ground that is right there at the Battery near these components. Is this correct practice? Iï¿½d be tempted to use the Firewall ground for the NAV and Fuel pump.  



These devices are neither potential antagonists 

or victims. As shown in Z-15, they can be grounded 

"locally" on a metal airplane. This translates 

to "closest practical" locations on a plastic 

airplane, 	




Thanks again,

-Tom

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_________________
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
-- in year 17 of a 3 year project

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:24 am Post subject: GROUND LOOPS

At 06:52 AM 8/12/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>



Bob,



OK.  Maybe I understood more than I thought.  What you wrote in your 

reply to me, is what I thought was an antagonist (motor, strobe 

power supply).  But in your earlier response to Tim (the one that 

confused me), you said a fuel pump (motor) and strobe power supply 

were not potential antagonists (hence my confusion).  What am I missing?


	


    Sorry, they're not potential PROBLEMS . . . assuming that

    the potential victims are corralled off on their own

    ground system. After all the panel mounted stuff is

    protected, you can do about anything you want elsewhere

    on the airplane. While outlying devices ARE capable

    of being antagonists, they are not potential victims

    and will not interfere with each other. Let's hear

    it for precise speech! Your diligence in the quest

    is commendable.

   Bob . . .

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