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Blumax008(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: 447 analysis |
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In a message dated 8/21/2010 12:11:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dave(at)cfisher.com writes:
| Quote: | | "Rotax has a hundred white coated engineers working on these engines for the last 30 years, what chance do you think you have to come up with something they haven't?" |
For the same reason that the American Cancer Society has had 100,000+ white coated researchers trying to find a cure for Cancer.
What they've actually found is that Cancer is a BIG MONEY MAKING BUSINESS! That's why Rotax recommends overhauls at 300 hours when I know from experience that you can go 1,500+. Don't believe everything you read. I've got 32 years flying Rotax 2-cycle motors. I know what they will & will not do & don't need a book to tell me.
[quote][b]
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:37 am Post subject: Re: 447 analysis |
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| dave wrote: | Rick. you are saying pretty well what I am saying.
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Heh, I'm used to getting push-back on this one, usually from 912 drivers or guys who've never even flown a 447 or 503 long-term at all.
So nowadays to save time I generally just refer the doubters to Mark Smith of Tri-state Kite sales (www.trikite.com). He's flown and worked on the 447 and 503 since the 80's and still does several engines a week. He'll give you the scoop on how to operate them for the longest life and least trouble. His advice sure worked for my 447's and 503's and I had a good decade or so of trouble-free operation with them as a result. Can't say the same about the guys who really ride the throttle, but that's not my call.
But a lot of the time, the guys who don't listen to me do listen to him once they see that he's been working with them for over 30 years. If it keeps even one guy out of the dirt, I'm happy with that.
If not, well, it's your engine 
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: Re: 447 analysis |
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| dave wrote: | David, 52 to 5400 is not a sweet spot and this is why you might be having issues. I can run a 503 for 600 hour plus with oil injection at 5800 to 6000 rpm with NO teardowns, de carboning etc- change plugs 100 to 150 hours.
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This ought to tell you something too - going 600 hours with no teardowns or decarbs just by itself is brinksmanship with a Rotax 2-stroke even when running it right, not to mention running it too hard in addition.
But again, I've already done my time online with all this and now just refer guys to Mark Smith for the way it really should be done with a 447/503.
Let's be careful out there, folks,
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:20 am Post subject: Re: 447 analysis |
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Lucien, There are many of us running Rotax for over 30 years with no troubles.
I think Mark a great guy as well but the point is the original guy who asked is running it on the low end and that is likely contributing to his troubles.
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Dick Maddux
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:17 am Post subject: 447 analysis |
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> Dick you suggested switching all the wires from one ignition module to
the other. Are they identical and can they be switched without harming
the engine? If we do this and the problem still occurs, but is on the
other mag, what does this tell us? If the problem still occurs but is on
the same mag, what does that tell us?<
What this should tell you is if the problem is with the modules or the wiring. If the problem now goes to the other mag ,you have a wiring problem (i.e.,: possible grounding of a "P" lead, open power lead,etc). You should be able to switch plugs at the modules. It won't hurt the engine. You could switch the wires at the mag switches if you have too. It is just a matter of right becomes left...left is now right.
If the problem remains in the same "mag" after switching all the wires, then the problem lies somewhere in the module to engine.
Case in point. I had a similar problem. When I did my mag check. on one mag it would run rough and often quit.( the other was OK) I reversed the wiring to the module and now the other mag was cutting out so I knew the problem was in the wiring somewhere (probably a break ...which it was... in the red wire)
I fixed that problem by cutting and splicing the offending wire but I still had a drop on one mag(about 200 I think) but,it didn't quit. When I flew the aircraft, you could feel the engine miss in flight.
After landing, I pulled all the plugs and "bomb" (spark) tested them in an AC spark plug tester and low and behold one plug was intermittently firing with a super weak spark. I chucked that plug and put in another new one...problem solved. By the way all the plugs were new but I had a bad one so, when in doubt, test them!
Hope this helps as I know your frustration!
Dick
[quote][b]
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undoctor
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: 447 analysis |
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Still more info on the care and feeding of the 447 Rotax. Thanks so
much! It's more than I could learn by flying it for hundreds of hours.
Thanks so much.
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
FireFly 11DMK
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Thumper
Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Oakland TN.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: 447 analysis |
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If you have an Competition Propellers Ultra Prop on it that prop is absolutely your problem. If not then I don't have your answer. I have tried several props and the 447 will work great clear down to a 4600 rpm cruise speed and stay loaded properly with 2.58 gearbox and 66x32 Tennessee wood prop or a 60" three blade IVO. BUT an Ultra Prop has that drop off that makes it seem like the carb or pipe, because of the lack of twist in the blades Trust me on this as I did lots of testing and spent lots of money to find that out.
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Dennis Long
Oakland TN
2000 Aeroprakt A20 Vista Cruiser, 2016 A22LS Aeroprakt
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