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awcbs

Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Location: kittanning, PA

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

just got a mark 3 x kit from around 1999. quick build option, not much done on it. I live in eastern Pa. north of pittsburgh.  prob be askin alot of questions. just warning everyone. anyway looking forward to the build. any tips before I get started are always welcome. thanks AJ

The BaronVonEvil

Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Walla Walla, WA.

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

Hi AJ,



Welcome to the World of Kolbs. You might want to give Travis at Kolb a call 

to see if there are any updates to your Kolb that you should consider. Keep 

us posted about your progress of your build!



Carlos G.

AKA

BaronVonEvil

---

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

LOL

Good luck,

I hope your building abilities surpass your  grasp of Pennsylvania's  

geography.



Gene Z

On Sep 28, 2010, at 3:25 PM, awcbs wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 just got a mark 3 x kit from around 1999. quick build option, not  

 much done on it. I live in eastern Pa. north of pittsburgh.  prob be  

 askin alot of questions. just warning everyone. anyway looking  

 forward to the build. any tips before I get started are always  

 welcome. thanks AJ





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314014#314014

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:26 am Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

AJ,



Can you be a little more specific about your location, like nearest town name or airport from which you will fly your Xtra when it is ready. Sort of hard to find you in eastern PA north of Pittsburgh .

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

awcbs

Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Location: kittanning, PA

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:52 am Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

I was in allentown working yesterday when I posted, so I was in eastern Pa but that was mistake. know Pa. pretty well as I travel all over fixin roads. been from allentown to erie, williamsport to mt.morris. sorry, 1 little mistake. I live in whitesburgh Pa, which is right next to kittanning Pa. 1 hr north of pittsburgh.  my neighbor has a 2000' grass strip. out my driveway and up his to the strip. my parents also have a farm where I flew an old mirage ultralight out of years ago. would also be interested in checking out other kolbs in the area,  thanks and sorry for the typo.  AJ

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

AJ,



Thanks for refining your location. No reason to apologize, we just kid each other to keep us all on our toes.



Welcome to the large Kolb flyers and builders family. I am only about two hours driving north of you which is about one hour Slingshot flying.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:37 am Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

That's good, be humble or us good ole boys might shun ye. 

BB

(an enthusiast of western PA where I did a lot of tent camping.  You're not really camping in those

fancy-scmantzy mobile living rooms)



On 29, Sep 2010, at 10:52 AM, awcbs wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I was in allentown working yesterday when I posted, so I was in eastern Pa but that was mistake. know Pa. pretty well as I travel all over fixin roads. been from allentown to erie, williamsport to mt.morris. sorry, 1 little mistake. I live in whitesburgh Pa, which is right next to kittanning Pa. 1 hr north of pittsburgh.  my neighbor has a 2000' grass strip. out my driveway and up his to the strip. my parents also have a farm where I flew an old mirage ultralight out of years ago. would also be interested in checking out other kolbs in the area,  thanks and sorry for the typo.  AJ

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314103#314103

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:42 am Post subject: new owner of an older Kolb X kit

You will get used to the guys kidding around.  They just don't want you to get lost before you leave the ground.

   Any questions you have about assembly, tricks, or legal requirements (builder's log, photos, etc.) just post to the List and somebody will have an answer.  Good people here.

   Good luck, and have fun.  Let us know on progress.

  

                                                  Bill Sullivan

                                                  Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                  FS 447

 [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

If you would like a totally biased opinion at how one particular curmudgeon thinks MKIII's ought to be built, check out dis heah:

http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm

Then when you are totally confused, ask questions on this list. We have many opinions... and are not shy to express them.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

Welcome AJ,

 There is a MK3 at a private strip on Rt14 near Columbiana called Morris, just inside the Mode C ring of Pittsburgh.Joe Saval flies there. I fly over there once in a while to visit But about 15 miles west of Morris is Salem (38D) A great restaurant for breakfast .We visit there a lot.We get a nice Saturday,we'll pick you up there and take you to breakfast!

 Gary Aman MK3 C Jabiru 2200a 595 hrs.

 

 

   

  

    --

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:55 am Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

"any tips before I get started are always welcome."



YES - Inventory all your parts and find what is missing.

_________________
Jerry King

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

While you're doing the inventory, keep an eye out for the elevator bell crank that installs in the cockpit and is connected to the stick with a push pull tube. There was a running change made at some time in the 90's that added a hole on the left forward corner of the bell crank for the cable from the trim lever. Previous to this the trim lever connected to the elevator with a cable that ran from the trim lever all the way back to the bell crank in the tail and back again to the cockpit bell crank. When the trim lever is moved from whatever the builder selects as the neutral point one part of the cable goes slack and bangs around in the tail tube. While the noise by itself is worrisome, when the trim cable is taut and the elevator control cable is slack the elevator becomes kind of loosy goosy in turbulence. There are two ways to fix the problem, call Travis and order the current iteration of the cockpit bell crank, or use a longer bolt to attach the rod end of the push pull tube and add a tang to provide the second hole for the trim cable.

 Another thing in the control circuits. I don't know if this is covered in the instruction manual, it isn't on the Mk IIIC plans. Add AN 970 large area washers to the outside of the rod end attachment bolt of the bell crank described above and the two on the aileron bell crank for the ailerons. This will keep the controls from becoming separated should the rod end come apart. 

 



Rick Girard

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:55 AM, racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>

  

 "any tips before I get started are always welcome."

 

 YES - Inventory all your parts and find what is missing.

 

 --------

 Jerry King

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314207#314207

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

  - G.K. Chesterton



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

There was a running change made at some time in the 90's that added a hole on the left forward corner of the bell crank for the cable from the trim lever.  Rick Girard

 



 Rick,

  

   I purchased my brand new MkIIIC kit from "the Old Kolb Co" in November 1998.  I DO have the updated bellcrank that 

 you refer to.  Since AJ claims to have a kit from 1999, AND it is evidently an early model Xtra, one would assume Kolb 

 Co. didn't reverse their bellcrank revision and send out an older style.  

   However, it is an excellent point that you mention it, just in case anyone else hasn't updated their own forward elevator 

 bellcrank.

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII 

  

  



 		 	   		    [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:27 am Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

The change must have been cut in very early on in the Mk III production. I had a conversation with Travis about it when I first found it on my aircraft. As I recall he had no record of it which would seem to indicate the cut in was done before TNK took over from Homer. The serial number stamped at the end of the engine mount tube on my aircraft is 043. Truthfully, for all I know this may have been a builder mod. It doesn't look like it, but it could be. 



Rick



On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		        There was a running change made at some time in the 90's that added a hole on the left forward corner of the bell crank for the cable from the trim lever.  

Rick Girard

 



 Rick,

  

   I purchased my brand new MkIIIC kit from "the Old Kolb Co" in November 1998.  I DO have the updated bellcrank that 

 you refer to.  Since AJ claims to have a kit from 1999, AND it is evidently an early model Xtra, one would assume Kolb 

 Co. didn't reverse their bellcrank revision and send out an older style.  

   However, it is an excellent point that you mention it, just in case anyone else hasn't updated their own forward elevator 

 bellcrank.

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII 

  

  



 		 	   		     	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

 



It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

  - G.K. Chesterton



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

I have MKIII sn:  M3-011.

  

 Bro Jim and I were working at Homer's Dec 1990 to  Mar 1991.  Jim welded up MKIII fuselages and I inspected them from the very  first, M3-001.  We also built and modified my MKIII at night while  there.  Each morning, when Homer Kolb came to work, he would inspect and  approve what Jim and I had done the night before.  

  

 My MKIII has the current forward aileron bell  crank.  I believe they all do.

  

 BTW:  I don't add fender washers to my rod end  bearings.  Haven't figured out how they could wear enough to  separate.  My MKIII rod end bearings have over 3,000.00 flight hours on  them and they are quite serviceable.  During my time flying Army  helicopters, I do not remember fender washers being added to rod end  bearings.

  

 I wanted to refresh my memory, so I walked over to  the hanger and took a close look at Larry Cottrell's FSII rod end bearings on  his aileron push/pull tubes.  Looks like it would be pretty difficult to  get the small AN 1/4 inch washer through the hole if the bronze bearing totally  disintegrated.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 7 miles south of Burns Junction, OR

  

  

 [quote]    

        I purchased my brand new MkIIIC kit from "the    Old Kolb Co" in November 1998.  I DO have the updated bellcrank    that 

   you refer to 

   Mike Welch

   MkIII 

    



[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

awcbs

Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Location: kittanning, PA

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

zeprep,  might take you up on the offer, but if your flyin I'm buyin. let me know when your goin and if I'm not workin I'll be there.  thanks everyone for the replies and tips. I'll post a couple pics and serial # later 2night, maybe it'll shed a little more light on the year? goto finish making room for it, then inventory. know it's missing lexan and aluminum floor.  thanks AJ

awcbs

Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Location: kittanning, PA

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

original bill of sale dated 12-10-1999

054.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

1.99 MB

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16152 Time(s)

052.JPG

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2.01 MB

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16152 Time(s)

awcbs

Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Location: kittanning, PA

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: new owner of an older kolb x kit

whoops, kinda big, have to resize next time

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

That photo format worked just fine.  One of the guys should be able to date it from this.

  

                                            Bill Sullivan

                                            Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                            FS 447



--- On Fri, 10/1/10, awcbs <awcbsone(at)windstream.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

original bill of sale dated 12-10-1999



Attachments: 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/054_150.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com//files/052_508.jpg

 --> http://f=             - List Contributionsp;                     &bsp;--> 

	
 [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: new owner of an older kolb x kit

John,  I must assume, then, that my aircraft had an ill considered modification to the elevator trim linkage. As for the rod ends, "Rod ends have been known to literally come apart after the peening retaining the ball races somehow failed allowing the bearings to become disconnected. It is the wise builder who takes the precaution of installing a large diameter washer between the nut and bearing to prevent its total failure. To be successful in preventing this type of failure, the washer must have a diameter somewhat larger than the hole in the bearing flange.".....Tony Bingelis, "Sportplane Construction Techniques"

 Tony made this recommendation about carburetor linkages, but I've found the same recommendation for control surface linkages in plans for the Long EZ and Varieze, among others.

If you like videos, EAA has this.  http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1618638582

 Did you not recount awhile back how, before adding aileron counterweights you had to replace rod ends on a yearly basis as they wore?   60 cents worth of washers seems like awfully cheap insurance to me.

"For want of a nail....a kingdom was lost." 

 



Rick                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

 

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:13 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		          I have MKIII sn:  M3-011.

  

 Bro Jim and I were working at Homer's Dec 1990 to  Mar 1991.  Jim welded up MKIII fuselages and I inspected them from the very  first, M3-001.  We also built and modified my MKIII at night while  there.  Each morning, when Homer Kolb came to work, he would inspect and  approve what Jim and I had done the night before.  

  

 My MKIII has the current forward aileron bell  crank.  I believe they all do.

  

 BTW:  I don't add fender washers to my rod end  bearings.  Haven't figured out how they could wear enough to  separate.  My MKIII rod end bearings have over 3,000.00 flight hours on  them and they are quite serviceable.  During my time flying Army  helicopters, I do not remember fender washers being added to rod end  bearings.

  

 I wanted to refresh my memory, so I walked over to  the hanger and took a close look at Larry Cottrell's FSII rod end bearings on  his aileron push/pull tubes.  Looks like it would be pretty difficult to  get the small AN 1/4 inch washer through the hole if the bronze bearing totally  disintegrated.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 7 miles south of Burns Junction, OR

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		      

        I purchased my brand new MkIIIC kit from "the    Old Kolb Co" in November 1998.  I DO have the updated bellcrank    that 

   you refer to 

   

Mike Welch

   MkIII 

    



	
    	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

 



It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

  - G.K. Chesterton



 



  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

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