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fuel flow transducer location

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rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

Plans show transducer to be in the tunnel, I've heard there are less fluctuations if it is placed after the mechanical pump and before distribution for fuel injection, is this correct?

_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:41 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

I called Flo-Scan about the placement of mine and they told me the worst place to put the sensor is between the electric pump and the mechanical pump.   Best would be before both pumps.   I put mine after the fuel servo mounted on top of the air box.  Flo-Scan said this would work fine.



Dave Leikam



On Nov 20, 2010, at 1:19 AM, rvdave wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Plans show transducer to be in the tunnel, I've heard there are less fluctuations if it is placed after the mechanical pump and before distribution for fuel injection, is this correct?

 

 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 flying

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320145#320145

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


	


David Leikam

RV10 

N89DA

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

As always, it depends. You want straight hose on either side of the

transducer for smooth transition without burbles. Sometimes that is

easier between fuel pump and servo, sometimes easier between servo and

flow divider. I suppose if one moved the boost pump and filter forward

in the tunnel it could be ahead of the filter.

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 5:38 AM, David Leikam <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I called Flo-Scan about the placement of mine and they told me the worst place to put the sensor is between the electric pump and the mechanical pump.   Best would be before both pumps.   I put mine after the fuel servo mounted on top of the air box.  Flo-Scan said this would work fine.

 Dave Leikam

 On Nov 20, 2010, at 1:19 AM, rvdave wrote:

> 

>

> Plans show transducer to be in the tunnel, I've heard there are less fluctuations if it is placed after the mechanical pump and before distribution for fuel injection, is this correct?

>

> --------

> Dave Ford

> RV6 flying

> RV10 building

> Cadillac, MI

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320145#320145

>

>

 David Leikam

 RV10

 N89DA

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:35 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

I just finished mounting mine yesterday and used the EI red cube FT-60.  I mounted it in the tunnel and have 6" straight line before and after the cube.  I know it is between the electrical Andair pump and the mechanical pump but it is the recommendation location by Vans and I want less fuel fittings and lines in the engine compartment.  I will move it if needed after the plane is flying.  I will make up a new bypass  fuel line while the tunnel is easily accessible just in case it needs to be moved.



David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:51 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

I mounted mine (not the red cube) in the tunnel with a nice long smooth lead in and out of the transducer and my readings were basically useless. Boost pump on added 3-5 gph with some bouncing. Boost pump off had 1-3 gph bouncing including low reading bouncing into the yellow that gave me low fuel flow warnings both in climb out and randomly in cruse flight. BTW this also threw off my fuel consumption/remaining fuel calculations. Not good!  Furthermore the bouncing makes it impossible to balance ones fuel injectors as you cannot get accurate FF readings. 

Finally fed up with the issue we relocated the transducer between the fuel servo and flow divider. Since then my readings have been rock solid and all low fuel pressure warnings + bouncing is gone. If building I would not waste my time placing the transducer in the tunnel again. 

Sorry no photos.

Robin 

 

 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)

 Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:26 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: fuel flow transducer location

  

I just finished mounting mine yesterday and used the EI red cube FT-60.  I mounted it in the tunnel and have 6" straight line before and after the cube.  I know it is between the electrical Andair pump and the mechanical pump but it is the recommendation location by Vans and I want less fuel fittings and lines in the engine compartment.  I will move it if needed after the plane is flying.  I will make up a new bypass  fuel line while the tunnel is easily accessible just in case it needs to be moved.

 

David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:25 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

Has any of you ask about the long term or short term of the vibration from engine on the transducer,if you mount it on the engine and not a solid piece of the aircraft such as the firewqll or engine mount?

 My understanding is it shortens the life of the transducer.

 Just my thoughts.

Patrick Thyssen



--- On Sat, 11/20/10, Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> wrote:

[quote]

From: Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>

Subject: RE: fuel flow transducer location

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 8:48 AM

I mounted mine (not the red cube) in the tunnel with a nice long smooth lead in and out of the transducer and my readings were basically useless. Boost pump on added 3-5 gph with some bouncing. Boost pump off had 1-3 gph bouncing including low reading bouncing into the yellow that gave me low fuel flow warnings both in climb out and randomly in cruse flight. BTW this also threw off my fuel consumption/remaining fuel calculations. Not good!  Furthermore the bouncing makes it impossible to balance ones fuel injectors as you cannot get accurate FF readings. 

Finally fed up with the issue we relocated the transducer between the fuel servo and flow divider. Since then my readings have been rock solid and all low fuel pressure warnings + bouncing is gone. If building I would not waste my time placing the transducer in the tunnel again. 

Sorry no photos.

Robin 

 

 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of [url=/mc/compose?to=davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net]davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net[/url]

 Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:26 AM

To: [url=/mc/compose?to=rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]

Subject: Re: fuel flow transducer location

  

I just finished mounting mine yesterday and used the EI red cube FT-60.  I mounted it in the tunnel and have 6" straight line before and after the cube.  I know it is between the electrical Andair pump and the mechanical pump but it is the recommendation location by Vans and I want less fuel fittings and lines in the engine compartment.  I will move it if needed after the plane is flying.  I will make up a new bypass  fuel line while the tunnel is easily accessible just in case it needs to be moved.

 

David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:09 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

Here  is were I mounted mine. 170 HRS and so far so good. I know other people have it  here as well.

  

  

  Geoff  Combs

  

  



 

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_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

I too mounted the GRT unit as shown in the tunnel  by Vans; no problems from beginning  TT360

 [quote]   ---

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

If you look at the       documentation that JPI sends with their products for installing       their (Floscan) sensor, it recommends installation on the hose       inline between the servo and the spider, next best location is       between the mech pump and the servo. None of their instructions       call for hard mounting the transducer. Floscan lists the bearing       life as 10,000 hrs.

       

       Deems

     

     On 11/20/2010 8:18 AM, Patrick Thyssen wrote:     [quote]                                        

               Has any of you ask about the long term or short term of               the vibration from engine on the transducer,if you mount               it on the engine and not a solid piece of the aircraft               such as the firewqll or engine mount?

                My understanding is it shortens the life of the               transducer.

                Just my thoughts.

               Patrick Thyssen

               

               --- On Sat, 11/20/10, Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> (Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)               wrote:

               [quote]

                 From: Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> (Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)

                 Subject: RE: fuel flow transducer location

                 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

                 Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 8:48 AM

                 

                                                                            

I mounted mine                         (not the red cube) in the tunnel with a nice                         long smooth lead in and out of the transducer                         and my readings were basically useless. Boost                         pump on added 3-5 gph with some bouncing. Boost                         pump off had 1-3 gph bouncing including low                         reading bouncing into the yellow that gave me                         low fuel flow warnings both in climb out and                         randomly in cruse flight. BTW this also threw                         off my fuel consumption/remaining fuel                         calculations. Not good!  Furthermore the                         bouncing makes it impossible to balance ones                         fuel injectors as you cannot get accurate FF                         readings.                     

Finally fed up                         with the issue we relocated the transducer                         between the fuel servo and flow divider. Since                         then my readings have been rock solid and all                         low fuel pressure warnings + bouncing is gone.                         If building I would not waste my time placing                         the transducer in the tunnel again.                     

Sorry no                         photos.                     

Robin                     

                                                                      

                           From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)]                             On Behalf Of [url=/mc/compose?to=davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net]davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net[/url]

                             Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010                             5:26 AM

                             To: [url=/mc/compose?to=rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]

                             Subject: Re: fuel flow                             transducer location                       

                     

                     

                                                                    

I just finished mounting mine                           yesterday and used the EI red cube FT-60.  I                           mounted it in the tunnel and have 6" straight                           line before and after the cube.  I know it is                           between the electrical Andair pump and the                           mechanical pump but it is the recommendation                           location by Vans and I want less fuel fittings                           and lines in the engine compartment.  I will                           move it if needed after the plane is flying.                            I will make up a new bypass  fuel line while                           the tunnel is easily accessible just in case                           it needs to be moved.

                           

                           David Clifford

                           

                           RV-10 Builder

                           65% Done-95% To Go

                           N849RV (reserved)

                           

                           ---

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

Look at the archives for "569JC" (April  2010)

  

 Here is the bottom line however:

 What went wrong? The short version: a fuel line broke. 



The long  version: During final assembly it came to my attention that 

people

with  the Fuel Flow transducer in the =93Tunnel=94 where experiencing  FF

fluctuation when using the electric pump. The fix? Move the FF  

Transducer to

between the Fuel Injection Servo and the Spider. Well,  that=92s what I 

did.

When I relocated the Transducer I had to fabricate a  line between the 

Servo

and the Transducer. The line I fabricated was =BC  inch aluminum, that 

was the

flaw. That line broke just outside the  fitting. When I made that line I 

made

sure it wasn=92t under any stress,  in a natural position, etc. 

Apparently that

was not enough. Now, I will  say this. This was the one component of the

airplane I was never quite happy  with. It just =93didn=92t look 

right=94. I had

some other builders take a  look, half heartedly hoping they would tell 

me

that aluminum was bad and  I should change it, but no one did. So it 

stayed,

and worked fine for 58  hours. 



https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5834625/RV10/photo%203.jpg

  

 Ask yourself, if already installed, if it's worth moving  the transducer. There was talk of this in the past and in the end a high time  flyer left his where it is and knows for the times the fuel pump is on the  transducer is inaccurate but ultimately it plays little factor in the big scheme  of things. I saw Robin's post and know he had pains but I also know of two  others that have not.

 I was worried about this in the past so I bring this up  so the newer builders don’t get worried about moving the transducer. I say-  leave it alone and deal with it once flying if it's an issue of safety or other  concern.

 Pascal

  



  From: Patrick Thyssen (jump2(at)sbcglobal.net) 

 Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 7:18 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: fuel flow transducer  location

 



            

Has any of you ask about the long term or short term of        the vibration from engine on the transducer,if you mount it on the engine        and not a solid piece of the aircraft such as the firewqll or engine        mount?

 My understanding is it shortens the life of the        transducer.

 Just my thoughts.

Patrick Thyssen



--- On        Sat, 11/20/10, Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com (Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)>        wrote:

       [quote]

From:          Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>

Subject: RE: RV10-List:          fuel flow transducer location

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date:          Saturday, November 20, 2010, 8:48 AM



                                     

I          mounted mine (not the red cube) in the tunnel with a nice long smooth          lead in and out of the transducer and my readings were basically          useless. Boost pump on added 3-5 gph with some bouncing. Boost pump off          had 1-3 gph bouncing including low reading bouncing into the yellow that          gave me low fuel flow warnings both in climb out and randomly in cruse          flight. BTW this also threw off my fuel consumption/remaining fuel          calculations. Not good!  Furthermore the bouncing makes it          impossible to balance ones fuel injectors as you cannot get accurate FF          readings.         

Finally fed up with the issue we relocated          the transducer between the fuel servo and flow divider. Since then my          readings have been rock solid and all low fuel pressure warnings +          bouncing is gone. If building I would not waste my time placing the          transducer in the tunnel again.         

Sorry no photos.         

Robin         

                            

From:          owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)          [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)]          On Behalf Of davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)

Sent:          Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:26 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:          Re: fuel flow transducer location



         

                   

I just finished mounting mine yesterday and used          the EI red cube FT-60.  I mounted it in the tunnel and have 6"          straight line before and after the cube.  I know it is between the          electrical Andair pump and the mechanical pump but it is the          recommendation location by Vans and I want less fuel fittings and lines          in the engine compartment.  I will move it if needed after the          plane is flying.  I will make up a new bypass  fuel line while          the tunnel is easily accessible just in case it needs to be          moved.



David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To          Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: Re: fuel flow transducer location

Mine is going in the tunnel per plans. Will move after flying if I feel it is needed then.

_________________
Wayne G.

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location - red cube

I put mine in the tunnel per the plans. Flawless readings after 90+ hrs.

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

I have had such a different experience. GRT supplied transducer in "stock" tunnel location. After calibration it hasn't skipped a beat. Does not fluctuate  and doesn't change with or without boost pump  Totalizer always within a gallon of actual used--all this after 200 hours. Now I hope I just didn't jinks myself.  Jay Rowe 40301



Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 20, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com (Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com)> wrote:



[quote]

I mounted mine (not the red cube) in the tunnel with a nice long smooth lead in and out of the transducer and my readings were basically useless. Boost pump on added 3-5 gph with some bouncing. Boost pump off had 1-3 gph bouncing including low reading bouncing into the yellow that gave me low fuel flow warnings both in climb out and randomly in cruse flight. BTW this also threw off my fuel consumption/remaining fuel calculations. Not good!  Furthermore the bouncing makes it impossible to balance ones fuel injectors as you cannot get accurate FF readings. 

Finally fed up with the issue we relocated the transducer between the fuel servo and flow divider. Since then my readings have been rock solid and all low fuel pressure warnings + bouncing is gone. If building I would not waste my time placing the transducer in the tunnel again. 

Sorry no photos.

Robin 

 

 From: [url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [mailto:[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of [url=mailto:davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net]davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net (davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net)[/url]

 Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:26 AM

To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]

Subject: Re: fuel flow transducer location

  

I just finished mounting mine yesterday and used the EI red cube FT-60.  I mounted it in the tunnel and have 6" straight line before and after the cube.  I know it is between the electrical Andair pump and the mechanical pump but it is the recommendation location by Vans and I want less fuel fittings and lines in the engine compartment.  I will move it if needed after the plane is flying.  I will make up a new bypass  fuel line while the tunnel is easily accessible just in case it needs to be moved.

 

David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: fuel flow transducer location

We have the EI Fuel flow gauge with the red cube transducer in our Saratoga.  It works great.  It is place between  the mechanical fuel pump and the Servo inlet.  We have no bounce readings at all very stable and once the fuel flow gauge was programmed for the proper number of pulses it is very accurate.  It is located right behind the fuel pump on the back of the engine.   We now have over 350 hours on it and no issues at all.

 

On the RV-10 I am going to mount it between the servo and the Divider valve on the lower front part of the engine.  I would not recommend it goes in the tunnel at all.

 

 

 

John G. Cumins

40864  Winds (flutting ribs)

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen

Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 7:18 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: fuel flow transducer location



 



Has any of you ask about the long term or short term of the vibration from engine on the transducer,if you mount it on the engine and not a solid piece of the aircraft such as the firewqll or engine mount?

 My understanding is it shortens the life of the transducer.

 Just my thoughts.

Patrick Thyssen



--- On Sat, 11/20/10, Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> wrote:



From: Robin Marks <Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com>

Subject: RE: fuel flow transducer location

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 8:48 AM

I mounted mine (not the red cube) in the tunnel with a nice long smooth lead in and out of the transducer and my readings were basically useless. Boost pump on added 3-5 gph with some bouncing. Boost pump off had 1-3 gph bouncing including low reading bouncing into the yellow that gave me low fuel flow warnings both in climb out and randomly in cruse flight. BTW this also threw off my fuel consumption/remaining fuel calculations. Not good!  Furthermore the bouncing makes it impossible to balance ones fuel injectors as you cannot get accurate FF readings.

Finally fed up with the issue we relocated the transducer between the fuel servo and flow divider. Since then my readings have been rock solid and all low fuel pressure warnings + bouncing is gone. If building I would not waste my time placing the transducer in the tunnel again.

Sorry no photos.

Robin

 

From: [url=/mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[/url] [mailto:[url=/mc/compose?to=owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[/url]] On Behalf Of [url=/mc/compose?to=davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net]davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net[/url]

Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:26 AM

To: [url=/mc/compose?to=rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]

Subject: Re: fuel flow transducer location

 

I just finished mounting mine yesterday and used the EI red cube FT-60.  I mounted it in the tunnel and have 6" straight line before and after the cube.  I know it is between the electrical Andair pump and the mechanical pump but it is the recommendation location by Vans and I want less fuel fittings and lines in the engine compartment.  I will move it if needed after the plane is flying.  I will make up a new bypass  fuel line while the tunnel is easily accessible just in case it needs to be moved.



David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

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