Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

vijaypisini(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

Hello,



Does anyone know the type of material used (T2024 T4 etc) for front/main wing 

spar parts (Sparweb, Stepped bar, Doubler)?  The front spar comes assembled with 

these three riveted together.

 

It is not appropriate if I do not mention as to why I need it.  So here it 

goes...the mission is Around The World in RV-10.  I shared this info with fellow 

RV-10 builders at OSH'10 Camp Scholler.  Neil Colliver gave good piece of 

information (through email, though he suggested not to make a major mod such as 

this for various reasons) and Bob Condrey encouraged/insisted on running the 

numbers first before going forward with outboard tank idea.  Obviously as 

everyone on this list knows that Van's doesn't want to give any engineering info 

on this.

 

I need the material information to model the wing in the analysis that I'm doing 

with the help of two of my colleagues who are familiar with modeling and 

simulation.  This is to add an extra tank (outboard tank...same size as original 

inboard tank) and make sure that the structure can hold the extra load on the 

wing.  FEM analysis is almost complete (3-4 months in the making) and want to 

make sure that the material is the right type of material.  



 

The tool we are using is Auto Desk Inventor.  We are not able to model the skin 

correctly in this tool, but the take away from this analysis is the trend (as we 

can't get exact numbers unless we model each and every part in the wing 

including the rivets).  By that I mean the Safety Factor trend (increase or 

decrease...increase is good) with and without beefing up (different options of 

beefing up) the spar structure.  The area in spot light is the gap (1 ft gap) 

between the two tanks (thanks to Neil who passed the conern to me concentrate on 

this area as expressed by Van's itself) where the loads are concentrated because 

the two tanks themselves add strength to the structure (spar) where they are 

located.  With the modeled wing, the safety factor will tell as to at what "g" 

the structure with break.  My goal is to keep this "g" above 150% of 3.8 which 

is what a utility category aircraft is designed for in general.  So far, the 

results are encouraging.  Van's says that as long as we can keep the "g" below 

3.8, we probably do not need to worry about beefing up the structure with 

outboard tank installed...but I can't guarantee that I'll be below 3.8 in severe 

turbulence.

 

I want to mention that this sort of adventure (building the airplane for this 

mission and flying it) is not for the faint-hearted or the nay-sayers.  For an 

adventure like this, I need to push the envelope a bit, but it should be a 

calculated risk and not a blind one.  My plan is to have 225 gallons of fuel for 

couple of long legs (eg: California to Hawaii)...yes, I'll be over the gross wt 

by aournd 15%-20% at the start of these legs.  Fuel management is another 

challenge and I have a locked-in plan for it (thanks to Detlef Heun's design 

which is a part of my fuel management design...he is in the middle of his Flight 

Around the World adventure on his RV-7 with his wife Liliana).

 

Any help with constructive criticism to get me through this build process from 

you all is very much appreciated.  So far, I have completed the empennage (not 

the attach portion though, since I don't have room in my garage), Ailerons, 

Flaps, 3/4th of 2 fuel tanks (yet to seal them).  Copied rudder trim from Tim 

Olson's website.  Passed 500 hrs (total time) mark...and in 3 years from now, my 

plane should fly.  Once the analysis is done, I'll upload all the details on my 

web page (not updated in a long time).  Please let me know if anyone has a 

question for me.  Thanks.

 

 

vj

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

VJ,



Congratulations on such a plan!  I don't expect you to have much trouble

with the stresses and loadings.



I would be very surprised if the spar material is not 2024-T3, or 2024-T351

for the thick web and the stepped bar.  That is pretty much the standard

structural material that the entire airplane is made of.  At room

temperatures, the tensile strength is 68,000 psi and the yield strength is

47,000 psi for the T351 parts.  T3 is used for sheet and has slightly higher

properties (70,000 psi ultimate, 50,000 psi yield).



However, I don't know how to verify this since the anodizing process removes

the mill markings from the material.  Van's gets most of their aluminum from

Kaiser Aluminum.  Perhaps they can verify the alloy and grade used.



If you can verify the material and condition, please post it to the List.



Jack Phillips, PE

#40610 wings

Raleigh, NC



--

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

I talked extensively with Kruger about this. 120 gallon in the wings only 

presents a problem on an overweight landing due to the possibility of 

negative load on the spar at touchdown. The fuel in flight lifts itself and 

imposes less positive bending moment on the spar. All the fuel is on the CG. 

we discussed two additional tanks outboard of the main tanks and separate 

from the mains so that for most operations the outboards would be empty and 

would only be used so that the first 60 would be transferred to the mains 

before landing. Obviously emergency considerations must be addressed such as 

overweight landing due to other reasons. failed transfer pumps, fuel vents 

etc. The TX guys that were doing this were building for Australian use (to 

the outback, no fuel) and one in FL had designs on FL to Costa Rica. We have 

considered a change to a flying aircraft but before we do, it will get a 

through look by engineer friends at the Big Aircraft Company.

---

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

The airport in TX was, I believe, at Bulverde. I stopped there to pick up a 

friend who was driving out for lunch. unfortunately she drove to Boerne 

field, about 10 directly west.

---

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb,

6061-T6.

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Wayne G.

Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb,

I talked to a guy at Sun n Fun who had double tanks on his RV-10. If I remeber correctly it was John Nys. You may want to get in touch with him.



Lenny

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

vijaypisini(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

DLM,



Thanks for the reply.  The restriction that I'll get at the time of acceptance 

is something along the lines of "landing with outboard tank fuel is prohibited 

except in emergency in which case appropriate inspection must be carried out 

before next flight".



So...I'm interested in the issues I might face while in flight.  CG problems 

will be greatly reduced with extra 60 gallons (360 lb) in both outboard tanks 

compared to 225-60=165 gal in ferry tank inside the plane.  Another problem that 

I see with ferry tank fuel is that when there is a wind gust, the joint at 

fuselage and wing will be stressed the most.  I can save some space in the 

cockpit with outboard tanks option.

vj



---

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

vijaypisini(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

Jack,



Thanks for the reply and the details.



Wayne Gillispie (rv10flyer) replied saying that it is 6061-T6.  I know for most 

of the aircraft structure they use the generic 6061-T6.  But for an all 

important structure like the wing spar, I'm wondering if it is something little 

more stronger material.



I'll need to figure this out for sure and will post it to the list when I can 

confirm something.

vj



---

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: Need the type of material for front wing spar (Sparweb, Step

let there be no mistake. Vans did not approve extended range tanks. I 

discussed the areas of concern with an engineer there. And yes the big 

airplane conpany has a lot of engineers with a lot of expertise. A step of 

this nature truly is experimental and should be approached with a lot of 

caution. That said a lot of Pipers and Cessnas load ferry tanks and go east 

and west over the pond. Try 

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm

---

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum