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dlicheri
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: vor antenna |
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chaps and fellow aviators,
good day. just joined and here is a brief intro. name is dino, I am uk based and fly my bird (jabiru sk 2200A 2 seat) out of a farm strip in essex. fly as much as weather permits. pilot since 1999 ...
here is my question.
I recently aquired a Narco NAV 11 in perfect working condition (just had it tested). i have checked out vor antenna prices and they are extorsionate. i was wondering if it is possible to DIY a vor ariel and if there are any web based resources/plan for making one.
much appreciated and many thanx
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: vor antenna |
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At 02:07 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "dlicheri" <triangulumx(at)googlemail.com>
chaps and fellow aviators,
good day. just joined and here is a brief intro. name is dino, I am uk based and fly my bird (jabiru sk 2200A 2 seat) out of a farm strip in essex. fly as much as weather permits. pilot since 1999 ...
here is my question.
I recently aquired a Narco NAV 11 in perfect working condition (just had it tested). i have checked out vor antenna prices and they are extorsionate. i was wondering if it is possible to DIY a vor ariel and if there are any web based resources/plan for making one. |
Sure. Make your own 'cat whiskers' from suitable
steel rod. CB antennas can be salvaged for their
corrosion resistant parts. Fabricate a BALUN as
described
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BALUN/Balun_Fabrication.html
Make an insulating configured to fit to your
airplane . . . usually the top cap of a
vertical fin. Fabricate fittings (silver
soldered to your 26" 'whiskers') to mount
the antenna elements to your fin cap with
about 45 degree sweep-back.
[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20110125133852.01f8cc88(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img]
Attach BALUN to interior ends and route coax to your
VOR receiver. The anti-rotation scheme shown above
is perhaps not sufficiently robust. I think I'd silver
solder the whiskers into a 5/16 or 3/8" threaded stud.
Bob . . .
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: vor antenna |
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I was once asked if it made any difference to the VOR whether the cats whiskers were sloping forward or rearward. What’s your take? Mine was simply to follow the directions.. but in homebuilt planes you may have to write your own directions.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: January 25, 2011 3:20 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: vor antenna
At 02:07 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "dlicheri" <triangulumx(at)googlemail.com>
chaps and fellow aviators,
good day. just joined and here is a brief intro. name is dino, I am uk based and fly my bird (jabiru sk 2200A 2 seat) out of a farm strip in essex. fly as much as weather permits. pilot since 1999 ..
here is my question.
I recently aquired a Narco NAV 11 in perfect working condition (just had it tested). i have checked out vor antenna prices and they are extorsionate. i was wondering if it is possible to DIY a vor ariel and if there are any web based resources/plan for making one.
Sure. Make your own 'cat whiskers' from suitable
steel rod. CB antennas can be salvaged for their
corrosion resistant parts. Fabricate a BALUN as
described
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BALUN/Balun_Fabrication.html
Make an insulating configured to fit to your
airplane . . . usually the top cap of a
vertical fin. Fabricate fittings (silver
soldered to your 26" 'whiskers') to mount
the antenna elements to your fin cap with
about 45 degree sweep-back.
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CBBCB4.7D5FB2F0[/img]
Attach BALUN to interior ends and route coax to your
VOR receiver. The anti-rotation scheme shown above
is perhaps not sufficiently robust. I think I'd silver
solder the whiskers into a 5/16 or 3/8" threaded stud.
Bob . . .
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: vor antenna |
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At 03:52 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
| Quote: | I was once asked if it made any difference to the VOR whether the
cats whiskers were sloping forward or rearward. What's your
take? Mine was simply to follow the directions.. but in homebuilt
planes you may have to write your own directions.
Noel
|
Good question. I've seen them both ways. Putting any
kind of rake angle on them will have effects on radiation
pattern, feed point impedance and aerodynamics. I suppose
somebody had a reason for selecting one over the other
but I doubt that it had to do with optimization in more
than one of the three areas of investigation. From the
performance perspective, it's almost sure to make no
perceivable difference.
Sometimes things are done just because that's the way
we've been doing it for a long time . . . and nobody
remembers why. Most folks would probably think they look
sexier with a rearward rake . . . and indeed, that may
have been the reason.
Bob . . .
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: vor antenna |
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On an airplane with conventional landing gear, you might want to consider walkaround safety in your forward/aft decision. I had a friend with an old Piper and he just about poked his eye out one time on a set that was bent forward.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 03:52 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
| Quote: | I was once asked if it made any difference to the VOR whether the cats whiskers were sloping forward or rearward. What's your take? Mine was simply to follow the directions. but in homebuilt planes you may have to write your own directions.
Noel
|
Good question. I've seen them both ways. Putting any
kind of rake angle on them will have effects on radiation
pattern, feed point impedance and aerodynamics. I suppose
somebody had a reason for selecting one over the other
but I doubt that it had to do with optimization in more
than one of the three areas of investigation. From the
performance perspective, it's almost sure to make no
perceivable difference.
Sometimes things are done just because that's the way
we've been doing it for a long time . . . and nobody
remembers why. Most folks would probably think they look
sexier with a rearward rake . . . and indeed, that may
have been the reason.
Bob . . .
,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=====
[b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: vor antenna |
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|
Several early Pipers and Cessnas had the VOR antennas pointed forward. That is the way the Maintenance Manual required they be installed. I suppose to legally turn them around would require an STC.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared Yates
Sent: January 25, 2011 6:16 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: vor antenna
On an airplane with conventional landing gear, you might want to consider walkaround safety in your forward/aft decision. I had a friend with an old Piper and he just about poked his eye out one time on a set that was bent forward.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 03:52 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
I was once asked if it made any difference to the VOR whether the cats whiskers were sloping forward or rearward. What's your take? Mine was simply to follow the directions.. but in homebuilt planes you may have to write your own directions.
Noel
Good question. I've seen them both ways. Putting any
kind of rake angle on them will have effects on radiation
pattern, feed point impedance and aerodynamics. I suppose
somebody had a reason for selecting one over the other
but I doubt that it had to do with optimization in more
than one of the three areas of investigation. From the
performance perspective, it's almost sure to make no
perceivable difference.
Sometimes things are done just because that's the way
we've been doing it for a long time . . . and nobody
remembers why. Most folks would probably think they look
sexier with a rearward rake . . . and indeed, that may
have been the reason.
Bob . . .
,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=====
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:00 am Post subject: vor antenna |
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Good Morning Noel,
I am sure you can get as many opinions as there are mechanics holding an IA, but I would just make log book entry which can be done by anyone holding an Airframe mechanic certificate. Strictly a Minor alteration in my opinion.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
A&P/IA
Downers Grove, IL
In a message dated 1/25/2011 10:15:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
| Quote: |
Several early Pipers and Cessnas had the VOR antennas pointed forward. That is the way the Maintenance Manual required they be installed. I suppose to legally turn them around would require an STC.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared Yates
Sent: January 25, 2011 6:16 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: vor antenna
On an airplane with conventional landing gear, you might want to consider walkaround safety in your forward/aft decision. I had a friend with an old Piper and he just about poked his eye out one time on a set that was bent forward.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 03:52 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
I was once asked if it made any difference to the VOR whether the cats whiskers were sloping forward or rearward. What's your take? Mine was simply to follow the directions.. but in homebuilt planes you may have to write your own directions.
Noel
Good question. I've seen them both ways. Putting any
kind of rake angle on them will have effects on radiation
pattern, feed point impedance and aerodynamics. I suppose
somebody had a reason for selecting one over the other
but I doubt that it had to do with optimization in more
than one of the three areas of investigation. From the
performance perspective, it's almost sure to make no
perceivable difference.
Sometimes things are done just because that's the way
we've been doing it for a long time . . . and nobody
remembers why. Most folks would probably think they look
sexier with a rearward rake . . . and indeed, that may
have been the reason.
Bob . . .
,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=====
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
01234567
8 |
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:47 am Post subject: vor antenna |
|
|
Practically speaking I would just call the TC (Transport Canada) inspector and ask him about it. They can get uppity about things like that. But considering the speed of the aircraft he would probably authorize an entry. In the log entry I would also mention the discussion with the TC inspector. If the inspector was having a bad day he would insist on following the MM.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: January 26, 2011 8:26 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: vor antenna
Good Morning Noel,
I am sure you can get as many opinions as there are mechanics holding an IA, but I would just make log book entry which can be done by anyone holding an Airframe mechanic certificate. Strictly a Minor alteration in my opinion.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
A&P/IA
Downers Grove, IL
In a message dated 1/25/2011 10:15:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
| Quote: |
Several early Pipers and Cessnas had the VOR antennas pointed forward. That is the way the Maintenance Manual required they be installed. I suppose to legally turn them around would require an STC.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared Yates
Sent: January 25, 2011 6:16 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: vor antenna
On an airplane with conventional landing gear, you might want to consider walkaround safety in your forward/aft decision. I had a friend with an old Piper and he just about poked his eye out one time on a set that was bent forward.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 03:52 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
I was once asked if it made any difference to the VOR whether the cats whiskers were sloping forward or rearward. What's your take? Mine was simply to follow the directions.. but in homebuilt planes you may have to write your own directions.
Noel
Good question. I've seen them both ways. Putting any
kind of rake angle on them will have effects on radiation
pattern, feed point impedance and aerodynamics. I suppose
somebody had a reason for selecting one over the other
but I doubt that it had to do with optimization in more
than one of the three areas of investigation. From the
performance perspective, it's almost sure to make no
perceivable difference.
Sometimes things are done just because that's the way
we've been doing it for a long time . . . and nobody
remembers why. Most folks would probably think they look
sexier with a rearward rake . . . and indeed, that may
have been the reason.
Bob . . .
,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=====
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ====================================List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:50 am Post subject: vor antenna |
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Good Morning Noel,
I have absolutely NO knowledge as to how the Canadian rules are applied, but in the USA a lot of authority IS granted to a certificated maintenance person. He/she is supposed to make a decision as to whether some modification is a Major Alteration or a Minor Alteration.
When the aircraft is next submitted for an annual inspection, the IA doing the inspection may or may not agree that the modification was a Minor one. If the IA thinks it is not, he can refuse to return the aircraft to service, but if the owner takes it to another IA who agrees that it is minor, the aircraft is returned to service.
If some FAA inspector has occasion to examine the airplane, he/she may decide it was a Major Alteration, but that does not mean the airplane has been flown illegally between the time the first "A" mechanic signed it off and the time the FED says it is not legal. At that time, the FAA is to contact the parties and get it straightened out to everyone's satisfaction. Depending on how it is handled, it can be a very pleasant experience or a knock down, drag out, fight, but no one has done anything that he/she was not authorized to do.
Personally. I NEVER ask an inspector what he thinks. I read the rules and make the decision based on my interpretation of what I read. If the FAA feels I am wrong, they are obligated to take action. What happens is that I am very careful as to what action I take and I try very hard to never do anything that I am not willing to support at a hearing <G>
Happy Skies,
Old Bo
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 1/26/2011 8:48:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
| Quote: |
Practically speaking I would just call the TC (Transport Canada) inspector and ask him about it. They can get uppity about things like that. But considering the speed of the aircraft he would probably authorize an entry. In the log entry I would also mention the discussion with the TC inspector. If the inspector was having a bad day he would insist on following the MM.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Sent: January 26, 2011 8:26 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: vor antenna
Good Morning Noel,
I am sure you can get as many opinions as there are mechanics holding an IA, but I would just make log book entry which can be done by anyone holding an Airframe mechanic certificate. Strictly a Minor alteration in my opinion.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
A&P/IA
Downers Grove, IL
In a message dated 1/25/2011 10:15:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:
| Quote: |
Several early Pipers and Cessnas had the VOR antennas pointed forward. That is the way the Maintenance Manual required they be installed. I suppose to legally turn them around would require an STC.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jared Yates
Sent: January 25, 2011 6:16 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: vor antenna
On an airplane with conventional landing gear, you might want to consider walkaround safety in your forward/aft decision. I had a friend with an old Piper and he just about poked his eye out one time on a set that was bent forward.
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 03:52 PM 1/25/2011, you wrote:
I was once asked if it made any difference to the VOR whether the cats whiskers were sloping forward or rearward. What's your take? Mine was simply to follow the directions.. but in homebuilt planes you may have to write your own directions.
Noel
Good question. I've seen them both ways. Putting any
kind of rake angle on them will have effects on radiation
pattern, feed point impedance and aerodynamics. I suppose
somebody had a reason for selecting one over the other
but I doubt that it had to do with optimization in more
than one of the three areas of investigation. From the
performance perspective, it's almost sure to make no
perceivable difference.
Sometimes things are done just because that's the way
we've been doing it for a long time . . . and nobody
remembers why. Most folks would probably think they look
sexier with a rearward rake . . . and indeed, that may
have been the reason.
Bob . . .
,
|
|
[quote][b]
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