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Transponder durability?

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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: Transponder durability?

Hi all, I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox list for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some more serious electrical questions.  I am shopping for a transponder for my Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit.  The biggest question I have is just how durable, rugged, or fragile are transponders?  I am shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit budget/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently tested and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be.  Any advice on shopping like this would be appreciated.  Several people advertise having 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for me or even if it will guarantee functionality, theoretically it should but we are talking about online third party dealers so who know, right.



In case the question arises, I am looking to put a transponder in because I fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to let me use their corridors if I am squawking.  I also want the ability to fly down to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise.  Flight following will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside with no destination.



Thanks for the help.

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_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:44 am Post subject: Transponder durability?

James, It's caveat emptor for anything off Ebay. If you assume it's junk, roughly 75% of the time you will be right. Be especially aware of "I'm selling this for a friend" deals. Too many horror stories. There's also the danger that it's stolen. If I were in your position, I would first join my local EAA chapter and ask around there. If nothing else you can probably get a recommendation to a good avionics shop. Otherwise, hit up your local avionics shops and ask about used, tested, and up to date. 



Rick Girard



On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)>

  

 Hi all, I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox list for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some more serious electrical questions.  I am shopping for a transponder for my Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit.  The biggest question I have is just how durable, rugged, or fragile are transponders?  I am shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit budget/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently tested and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be.  Any advice on shopping like this would be appreciated.  Several people advertise having 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for me or even if it will guarantee functionality, theoretically it should but we are talking about online third party dealers so who know, right.

  

 In case the question arises, I am looking to put a transponder in because I fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to let me use their corridors if I am squawking.  I also want the ability to fly down to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise.  Flight following will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside with no destination.

  

 Thanks for the help.

 

 --------

 James

 Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70&quot; IVO 2 blade GA

 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,

       now she lies in wait

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330119#330119

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Transponder durability?

I hear what you are saying about Ebay, Rick.  I am hoping to have a box full of parts and projects waiting for me when I get home (currently deployed) and the transponder is one of very few that can be considered "serious."  I have never messed with avionics so I am completely unfamiliar with their survivability when removed and stored and whatever else.  



To the other point, I have joined the EAA, finally, but there is no local chapter where I live.  There are about 4 within an hour and a half of where I live so I will try to make it to a meeting at each and join one.  This will probably take me several months to complete though.

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_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: Transponder durability?

James,

  

   Rick Gerard is correct about eBay.  I bought my King KT76 off eBay, and it was

 supposedly recently certified and came with a yellow tag.  All this was a lie!!!

 It was not recently inspected, because it was missing the ident button.  I had

 to end up sending it to an avionics repairman to have it properly fixed!!

  

   However, there are many very reputable avionics repair shops on eBay, too.

 For my GlaStar, I bought a very nice condition Narco AT150, and it DID come

 with a proper repair order (from a very famous avionics shop)  (but the price 

 wasn't any better than I could have gotten locally, either)

  

   If I needed to buy a reasonably priced, used piece of avionics hardware today,

 I'd find my local avionics shop, and see what he had!  eBay prices will NOT be

 any better than your local guy, and he ought to help you if there is a problem.

 Your best deal will be being able to hold in your hand your favorite transponder,

 and haggle over the price with the guy on the other side of the counter!  In addition

 to selling you the transponder, he can also make sure you have all the peripheral

 stuff, like the tray, the pins and connector, and he could likely make your antenna

 cable.

  

   BTW, regarding selling stolen stuff on eBay, here is the scam I heard that the thieves do;

 Some lowlife SOB walks a ramp looking into windows of planes.  He spots TWO

 exact same models of....let's say transponders.  He pops the door open, take one

 out, and then heads over to the second plane.  Next, he pops the door open on the 

 second plane, and then slides out the second transponder!! 

   Now, he slides the first transponder into the second plane!!   Clever!   The second 

 plane owner has a transponder, and never think twice about it, even though it's stolen.  

 He never reports anything, because he doesn't know a thing.

   So, airplane owner #1 calls and reports a stolen transponder and furnishes a serial

 number (of the transponder in plane #2).

   In the meantime, SOB thief guy puts transponder #2 on eBay, and knows no one

 suspects a thing, because they aren't looking for this transponder, they're looking for

 the transponder in plane #2.  Ingenius thieves!!

  

 Mike Welch

   

   

 

   Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 07:39:07 -0600

Subject: Re: Transponder durability?

From: aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com



James, It's caveat emptor for anything off Ebay. If you assume it's junk, roughly 75% of the time you will be right. Be especially aware of "I'm selling this for a friend" deals. Too many horror stories. There's also the danger that it's stolen. If I were in your position, I would first join my local EAA chapter and ask around there. If nothing else you can probably get a recommendation to a good avionics shop. Otherwise, hit up your local avionics shops and ask about used, tested, and up to date. 



 Rick Girard



 On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)>



Hi all, I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox list for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some more serious electrical questions.  I am shopping for a transponder for my Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit.  The biggest question I have is just how durable, rugged, or fragile are transponders?  I am shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit budget/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently tested and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be.  Any advice on shopping like this would be appreciated.  Several people advertise having 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for me or even if it will guarantee functionality, theoretically it should but we are talking about online third party dealers so who know, right.



In case the question arises, I am looking to put a transponder in because I fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to let me use their corridors if I am squawking.  I also want the ability to fly down to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise.  Flight following will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside with no destination.



Thanks for the help.



--------

James

Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70&quot; IVO 2 blade GA

50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,

     now she lies in wait





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330119#330119



===========

-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

===========

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===========

le, List Admin.

="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===========



	


-- 

 Zulu Delta

 Mk IIIC

 Thanks, Homer GBYM

 



 It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

  - Groucho Marx

 



[quote]



-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

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jfolkerts1(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: Transponder durability?

James,

	I'm starting to consider my options as well.  I'm trying hard to

stay within a budget and working to ensure I only include what I need for

the type of flying I'm anticipating.  I've found there are good options for

used avionics from several respected vendors, i.e. Gulf Coast Avionics,

Bennett Avionics just to name a couple.  You'll find that when certified

airplanes upgrade to glass and Class S transponders, there are good deals

out there.  In some cases, these vendors will also sell reconditioned

avionics with warranty's.  One example I've looked at is a Reconditioned

King KT-76A Transponder.  Many of the vendors are selling these for

approximately $695.00.  I haven't made any decisions yet, but have just been

searching various options.  The above is also not to recommend any specific

vendor, but only to illustrate what is available.  Also remember, on some of

these you have to add an encoder.

Regards,

Jerry Folkerts

SR2500 #093



--

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email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:51 am Post subject: Transponder durability?

I've been watching and bidding on avionics on ebay for the past two years or so, and in several cases I've had notices that my bids were cancelled because ebay determined that the auction was fradulent.  Be really careful!  I would trust someone like wentworth in their ebay auctions because I know that they are also a legitimate aviation company.  Look at the seller's other auctions, and be very wary of a seller who has no other avionics or aviation related listings.  Scammers will get the passwords of ebay users through email phishing, then make a listing for something expensive.  Avionics are a great subject for them, since we aviation folks generally trust each other pretty well, and since the selling prices are relatively high.  Another good option is to deal with someone who you can visit in person to pay and pick up.  Use the geographic search filters.  If they refuse to allow a local pickup, or if there is talk about a buy-it-now price in the description that is too good to be true, report the auction and move on.

 

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] James, It's caveat emptor for anything off Ebay. If you assume it's junk, roughly 75% of the time you will be right. Be especially aware of "I'm selling this for a friend" deals. Too many horror stories. There's also the danger that it's stolen. If I were in your position, I would first join my local EAA chapter and ask around there. If nothing else you can probably get a recommendation to a good avionics shop. Otherwise, hit up your local avionics shops and ask about used, tested, and up to date.  



Rick Girard



On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)> wrote:

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)>

   

 Hi all, I am new on this list but I have been on the Matronics Kitfox list for a while and one of the guys there recommend I come over here for some more serious electrical questions.  I am shopping for a transponder for my Kitfox and my allotted budget mandates a used unit.  The biggest question I have is just how durable, rugged, or fragile are transponders?  I am shopping Barnstormers and Ebay and continually find units that will fit budget/panel/taste in the $6-800 range and many of them are not recently tested and I am unfamiliar so I do not know how picky to be.  Any advice on shopping like this would be appreciated.  Several people advertise having 8130s for the electronics and I don't know if this should be a necessity for me or even if it will guarantee functionality, theoretically it should but we are talking about online third party dealers so who know, right.

   

 In case the question arises, I am looking to put a transponder in because I fly out of a military bases class D and they will be more inclined to let me use their corridors if I am squawking.  I also want the ability to fly down to Nashville and terrorize the ATC with my 70 kt cruise.  Flight following will also be nice since I like to just puts around the countryside with no destination.

   

 Thanks for the help.

 

 --------

 James

 Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70&quot; IVO 2 blade GA

 50 hrs on the Fox in between deployments,

       now she lies in wait

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330119#330119

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

    - Groucho Marx



 



   	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Transponder durability?

I hate to admit it but I have been taken a time or two on Ebay, fortunately never on anything significant in price though.  I do know well enough to research the sellers too.  There are quite a few sellers that specialize in avionics with good (100%) feedback.  That is reassuring but not to a fault.  I hate for this thread to revolve solely on Ebay though as I also keep my eyes on Barnstormers and have emailed several avionics companies from there but always too late to get the item.



To kind of narrow the conversation a little I will rephrase my big concerns.  How delicate are transponders as far as electronics go?  The process seems simple enough.  The antenna receives the interrogation and transmits the transponders discreet code on the set ATC freq, including alt if an encoder is wired in.  So basically there is a receiver on a set freq, a transmitter on a set freq, and two encoders which dictate the transmission.  



So where does the failure usually occur?

In a proper installation used for a long time, does anything wear out? Transmitter, amp, fingamadoohicky?

Are they easy to damage during normal install and removal?

When they do get old are repairs prohibitively expensive causing an older unit to cost more then a new?

Are there any ways besides just shopping online to really get an idea of what used avionics are worth?  Knowing that line of what is to good to be true has been a big help to me in the past.



Most likely I will just wait until I get home, but asking questions like this and getting GA educated is how I keep myself entertained over here.  Thanks again all.

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_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Radioflyer

Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Boston

Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Transponder durability?

As for durability, I don't know much, but one thing I would suggest you consider is whether the transponder is completely solidstate or whether it uses a cavitron tube. The glass cavitron tubes are supposed to be very expensive to replace when they fail. I've always thought the solidstate units startup faster and are more rugged or reliable. Maybe someone here can comment further one way or the other.



As for ebay, maybe I've just been lucky or maybe I've practiced good common sense in my bids, but I've had good luck with aircraft stuff. I will say that I always carefully research the part I'm looking for and if the bidder's description, feedback or responses seem inconsistent, then no bid.



And here is an offer...I have a Terra TRT250 transponder with tray and antenna connector. It has a "Return to Service" label from Terra dated 1995. More importantly, it has the mods 2 and 5 done to it, to comply with the latest AD on the unit. I bought the unit used several years ago for an Experimental because it is solidstate, and is still among the smallest, lightest transponders available. Unfortunately, the experimental never became mine, so I've never used it. It has a small rectangular face , but can be made to fit in a 3-1/8" instrument hole. I paid $650 for the unit and it is available for sale.



--Jose

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