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Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow
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Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

 	  ces308 wrote: 	
		  

Frank is sending me his NEW silver spring which is supposed to be 2-3 lbs...if that does not work I will put a regulator on and set it to 2-3 lbs..

Again..Thank you Frank ! 



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru A-2200  172.0hrs

N327CS 	




Hello Chris,



Be careful that the fuel pressure regulator you use does not restrict flow.  I put one of those round silver types with a dial on my airplane and at extended high power settings it would not allow enough fuel to flow.  It caused an engine out on my first flight in my MKIII.



Regards

Jason

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

As one who has had experience with those "round silver" regulators.......

They are not all created equal.  The one from NAPA will work.  Others can be junk even though they appear similar.

I recommend simply using the lowest pressure output facet from AC spruce with no regulator.

Why?  because if the diaphragm in the regulator fails, it fails closed.

BB

MKIII, suzuki

On 15, Jan 2011, at 1:11 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 ces308 wrote:

> 

> Frank is sending me his NEW silver spring which is supposed to be 2-3 lbs...if that does not work I will put a regulator on and set it to 2-3 lbs..

> Again..Thank you Frank ! 

> 

> chris ambrose

> M3X/Jabiru A-2200  172.0hrs

> N327CS

 Hello Chris,

 Be careful that the fuel pressure regulator you use does not restrict flow.  I put one of those round silver types with a dial on my airplane and at extended high power settings it would not allow enough fuel to flow.  It caused an engine out on my first flight in my MKIII.

 Regards

 Jason

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327117#327117

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

I recommend simply using the lowest pressure output facet from AC spruce  with no regulator.

Why?  because if the diaphragm in the regulator  fails, it fails closed.

BB

MKIII, suzuki

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  
	


 I don't have any experience with this  regulator.  But all the regulators I've been familiar with, when they fail,  they fail open.  From my experience all regulators are all open until  the outlet pressure reaches the set point,  then the outlet  pressure presses against the diaphragm working against the spring pressure  to close them.  as the gas is burned off,,   the pressure on the  diafram drops and the valve opens to let more gas through till the set point is  reached and it is again off....   a continual small use through the  carbs  (the engine is running)  will set up a small flow through the  regulator to keep up with the rate of burn.   if the top of the  diafram is vented,, and the diafram leaks the device will leak.   i  have rarely seen a regulator stick shutt.  it is normaly caused by  something jaming or sticking in the valve.

  

 Boyd young

  

 mkiii

  

 using the lowest setting faucett pump in serries  with the engine driven pump on a 912

  

   [quote][b]

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Chris,

 Any possibility of high crankcase pressure pulsing the fuel pump diaphram? Is the vent system open to atmospheric pressure?

 

  

   I just think the spring failing is a stretch.

 Thanks G.Aman

 

  --

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Gary,



The vent is good...today while waiting for the spring from Frank, I went to the hardware store and bought a spring of the same diameter,but had less tension than the gold spring Pete sent me and it seems to work fine...I will run it wide open tomorrow,but it looks good so far ! 1.5 lbs at idle and 2 at 1400 rpm's.  I wish I would have taken a fuel pressure reading at my condition inspection...I also have a  fuel pressure sensor coming from GR Tech to keep checking the pressure...Now I will have something to go by...



chris ambrose

M3X/Jab

N327CS

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Jab guys...



Also did any of you know about this??  Got this from Lynn Matteson...



With all this talk about the float needle, let's remember that there 

are black-tipped needles (the rubber end is black) and needles with 

silver, gold, and *black* springs, (or at least a silver, gold, or 

black colored spring end, which is a code for the strength of the 

spring within the needle) and make sure you know which one you're 

referring to. 



Lynn Matteson 

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger 

Jabiru 2200, #2062 

Sensenich 62"x 55.5 Wood (winter) until the Prince prop arrives 

Electroair direct-fire ignition system 

Rotec TBI-40 injection 

Status: flying...1078+ hrs (since 3-27-2006)



    As Rosann Rosanna Danna always said," It just goes to show you...It's always something ! " lol



And you thought this was a simple engine ! lol



chris ambrose

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Chris,



The spring internal to the float valve in the Bing Carb that Lynn is talking about has nothing to do with the fuel pressure being too high. The spring internal to the float valve performs a single function, to dampen/absorb the vibrations that occur in the float system on a running engine. So, different internal float valve springs perform that function slightly differently but have no effect on the fuel pressure nor the pressure between the float valve tip and the seat/orifice, nor the ability to resist the pressure applied by the fuel pump while the engine is running. 



Bottom line is that this internal float valve spring can be ignored in thinking about your current high pressure situation. Having a float valve with a tip in good condition is important and you've already tended to that.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Gary and Thom....



I think you hit the nail on the head with crank case pressure....I  thought it was ok,then I got thinking last night ( I work nights so I had 12 hrs to think about it ) and I got looking at the videos I made and the dates I made them,then went to the weather channel and matched up outside temps for the days it flew and the days it quit and the days it ran good the temps were 32+ and the days it quit temps were 10 - 18 *.With a closer look today I believe the vent tube was freezing up blocking off the venting of the case,The original catch cup I had was loose fitting  and starting to come apart so this summer I made a new one with fittings in the top and a screw on cap for security and it worked great in warmer temps ,but maybe not so good in the winter months.I will try to run it tomorrow and will let you know how it goes...It all makes sense now and why after everything we did it all came back to the same thing !  



Thanks Thom and Gary ! I would not have considered this Knowing how simple the system is...from now on I check this first, fuel pressure will now be monitored all the time now.... and I should have known this too!

 I will let you know for sure tomorrow!



ps...this is the picture of the catch can...i removed the Brillo pad that was getting deteriorated and replaced it with paper toweling to soak up any moisture and oil...I am back using  A Brillo coarse mesh pad again and I think I'm going to use larger diameter tubing too..when I took it apart you could see where the toweling was right up against the  in-coming and out going openings...



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru

N327CS

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

ps...this is the picture of the catch can



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru

Chris A/Gang:



Is it mandatory to use a large catch can?  or can you configure the breather 

hose to dump overboard?



Does the engine blow that much oil through the breather?  or is the catch 

can also the air/oil seperator?



john h

mkIII

titus, alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

John,



It's more of an air/oil separator...this is where the moisture gets out of the engine and without it  it would make an annoying mess on the tail...the one I had on last year had the Brillo pad in it and was not as tight as this one is...maybe I made it too good ! 



chris ambrose

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

It's more of an air/oil separator...this is where the moisture gets out of 

the engine and without it  it would make an annoying mess on the tail...the 

one I had on last year had the Brillo pad in it and was not as tight as this 

one is...maybe I made it too good !



chris ambrose



Chris A:



Does Jabiru provide an air/oil seperator? or do you have to provide one of 

your own design?



john h

mkIII

Titus, AL

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

John,



make your own...



chris ambrose

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Chris I have installed and flown two of the same Jabiru engines you have the 2200 I didnt get a big mess out of them and I would run that tube down through the tail  boom and out to the end of the rudder it if was making that kind of a mess on the tail or 

   I am willing to make you an aluminum Can just for that crank case vent if you would like with a petcock in the bottom of it so you can drain it  on pre flights 

 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Chris, An old Lycosaurus trick is to put a slit in the breather tube so that if there is any obstruction in the end of the tube the pressure will push the slit open and allow the engine to vent.



Rick Girard

 

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:28 PM, ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>

 

 Gary and Thom....

 

 I think you hit the nail on the head with crank case pressure....I  thought it was ok,then I got thinking last night ( I work nights so I had 12 hrs to think about it ) and I got looking at the videos I made and the dates I made them,then went to the weather channel and matched up outside temps for the days it flew and the days it quit and the days it ran good the temps were 32+ and the days it quit temps were 10 - 18 *.With a closer look today I believe the vent tube was freezing up blocking off the venting of the case,The original catch cup I had was loose fitting  and starting to come apart so this summer I made a new one with fittings in the top and a screw on cap for security and it worked great in warmer temps ,but maybe not so good in the winter months.I will try to run it tomorrow and will let you know how it goes...It all makes sense now and why after everything we did it all came back to the same thing !

  

 Thanks Thom and Gary ! I would not have considered this Knowing how simple the system is...from now on I check this first, fuel pressure will now be monitored all the time now.... and I should have known this too!

  I will let you know for sure tomorrow!

 

 ps...this is the picture of the catch can...i removed the Brillo pad that was getting deteriorated and replaced it with paper toweling to soak up any moisture and oil...I am back using  A Brillo coarse mesh pad again and I think I'm going to use larger diameter tubing too..when I took it apart you could see where the toweling was right up against the  in-coming and out going openings...

  

 chris ambrose

 M3X/Jabiru

 N327CS

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327369#327369

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

  - G.K. Chesterton



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

John,

 The oil fill tube,dip stick guide,crankcase vent are one and the same.About 3/4 in ID with the base of the tube not far enough above the oil level.The later model engines have a deeper oil pan,but it really should have a windage tray like we used in VWs .I have built a separator mounted on top of the engine with 5 vanes in it that cause the vent gases to make sharp turns when leaving the case that SEEMS to help,and have used a PCV valve to try to hold a negative pressure in the case, but the venting system needs a redesign IMHO.If I still have it at the 2000hr TBO,I would try to modify it.It is such a sweet engine in other respects.

 G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200a 600hrs

 PS welcome back! 

 !

   

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Chris,



Glad you found the culprit!



My rather small air/oil separator has one inlet and two outlets. The top outlet goes via flex hose directly overboard. The bottom outlet goes to a petcock and from there it also goes overboard. After every flight, I drain the several drops of the muck that collects in the bottom using the petcock. As long as I never let the separator fill up (drain after every flight), no oil or muck comes out of the upper outlet and the tail stays nice and clean. 



I add no more than a 1/2 pint or so of oil between 50 hour changes, so most of what comes out of the separator is oily water.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:35 am Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

If I still have it at the 2000hr TBO,I would try to modify it.It is such a 

sweet engine in other respects.

G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200a 600hrs

PS welcome back!

!

 Gary A/Gang:



Thanks for that info.  I have a better understanding of what the Jabiru 

folks problem is now.



Is the Jabiru Factory doing anything to help with this problem?



Hopefully, you all can come up with a good solution.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

ps...this is the picture of the catch can...i removed the Brillo pad  that was getting deteriorated and replaced it with paper toweling to soak up any  moisture and oil...I am back using  A Brillo coarse mesh pad again and I  think I'm going to use larger diameter tubing too..when I took it apart you  could see where the toweling was right up against the  in-coming and out  going openings...



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru

N327CS

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  
	


 if there was someway that you could put some  insulation around the seperator / tubing,  it would keep it warm enough it  could not ice over.    just thinking  outloud here,  i  have seen some foam tape that would keep things a bit warmer.    as to paper or corse mesh pad...  when working with pnumataic  thermostats and controls,,  one of the best filter housings ive  seen used a roll of toilet paper as a filter element.   it worked  as a filter dryer.  and cheap to replace.

  

 boyd young

 mkiii

   [quote][b]

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Hello all....



     Well,I got the head back on yesterday and flew it todayfor .5 hrs  and it ran perfect ! Ellery's catch can worked perfect    and my fuel pressure stays between 1.4 to 1.7 and absolutely no problems running what so ever! 



Thank you Thom for making me look closer and the crankcase vent system  as that was my problem from the start. I believe condensation in the line froze blocking the venting and raising the pressure in the engine causing the fuel pump to go wild!. It was 16* today when I flew it and all was good ! Now to build trust in her again...lol

chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru A-2200    175.0 hrs

N327CS

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow

Glad to hear you got it all straightened out and back on the flight line )

   

 

  

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

   

 do not archive

    

   

  

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