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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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I'm thinking that the sleeve is there for strain relief and vibration
protection, and nothing to do with the flare itself, or the sealing
qualities. In plumbing fittings, at least on gas lines, there are
what are called (locally at least) gas line nuts, which are nuts with
a longer, tapering portion at the back, which seems to be there for
strain relief. It serves the same function, in my mind, as the
sleeves in the AN, MS, and JIC 37° systems.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:20 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
| Quote: |
The reason I suspect outside of having more sealing surface, is
what you
mentioned about not stretching the tubing as far and therefore not as
susceptible to cracking.
I also noticed the 45 degree pipe flare doesn't use or at least I
haven't
seen one use a sleeve inside the B-Nut.
Noel
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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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Mike-
When did this 37.5 degree thing come on board? I visited all three
sites that you mentioned, and I couldn't find any reference to the .
5. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
mention 37.5°, and I can't find reference to 37.5° in any mention of
flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
tool? : )
Regarding the cheap flaring tools, I once had a 45° flaring tool that
didn't match up well where the two sides of the female clamping
device came together. This would cause a pinch on the tubing, and
leave a slight ridge behind the flare. It never hurt the sealing
surface, or the sealing of the joint, but it always stuck in my craw
that the imperfection was there. It looked like where the two sides
came together, they formed an oval hole, not completely round, and
tightening the clamp would pinch the tubing and deform it...a sure
sign of a cheap tool.
Just for the record, is everybody adhering to what AC 43. 13 says
regarding tube connections: "A double flare is used on soft aluminum
tubing 3/8-inch outside diameter and under, and a single flare on all
other tubing." Hmmmmm?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Apr 17, 2011, at 10:40 AM, mikeperkins wrote:
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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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 | Quote: | I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass (well, maybe I am), but I
don't find a reference to it. I'm thinking that if AC 43. 13 doesn't
mention 37.5�, and I can't find reference to 37.5� in any mention of
flaring tools, then maybe we ought not refer to that, huh? I mean, we
got guys banging their heads against the wall trying to decide
whether to use 45 or 37, and now we got them out looking for a 37.5
tool? : ) |
I'm guilty of posting it as 37.5. I guess I hadn't noticed it is 37 and not 37.5. The guy in the film said 37 and a half. Must be his fault.
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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use anything you
want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does not
apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate,
unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
certificate for that aircraft; or"
AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory, therefore, you
may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe" by the
FAA.
John Hart
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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Good point, John...."advisory circular"....I sorta thought this was
the Bible of repair, and was treating the info therein as Gospel. I
wonder how many A&P/IA's follow it without question?...just wondering...
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:33 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
[quote]
<helili(at)chahtatushka.net>
Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use
anything you
want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does
not
apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental
certificate,
unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
certificate for that aircraft; or"
AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory,
therefore, you
may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe"
by the
FAA.
John Hart
--
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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MDKitfox(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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Ha! Although only advisory in nature, doing something different than what is there is absolutely allowed. But if there is a problem, as Ricky Ricardo used to say, it will require you do some s'plaining Lucy! (Usually, that's to your insurance company.)
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Apr 17, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>
Good point, John...."advisory circular"....I sorta thought this was the Bible of repair, and was treating the info therein as Gospel. I wonder how many A&P/IA's follow it without question?...just wondering...
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:33 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John W. Hart" <helili(at)chahtatushka.net (helili(at)chahtatushka.net)>
Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use anything you
want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does not
apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate,
unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
certificate for that aircraft; or"
AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory, therefore, you
may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe" by the
FAA.
John Hart
--
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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Lots of folks do, and that's not all bad, BUT, in the case of
"Experimental/Homebuilt", there's lots of leeway to do what you want. When
I worked for the FAA some years ago, a fellow came in to the FSDO asking
about "an STC to put tundra tires on an experimental". Several of the other
guys in Flight Standards started making all kinds of noise about STC's until
it was pointed out that FAR 43, as well as a few other regs and AC's didn't
apply to the "Experimental/Homebuilt" aircraft. You should have seen the
sheepish looks on their faces.
John Hart
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:06 am Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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I DON”T have an insurance company for my airplane,
John Hart
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator
Ha! Although only advisory in nature, doing something different than what is there is absolutely allowed. But if there is a problem, as Ricky Ricardo used to say, it will require you do some s'plaining Lucy! (Usually, that's to your insurance company.)
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Apr 17, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>
Good point, John...."advisory circular"....I sorta thought this was the Bible of repair, and was treating the info therein as Gospel. I wonder how many A&P/IA's follow it without question?...just wondering...
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Apr 17, 2011, at 7:33 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John W. Hart" <helili(at)chahtatushka.net (helili(at)chahtatushka.net)>[quote]
Wellll, in the case of Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft, use anything you
want for a flare angle. FAR 43.1(b)(1) states:" (b) This part does not
apply to—
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate,
unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness
certificate for that aircraft; or"
AC 43.13 is an "advisory circular", which is non-regulatory, therefore, you
may do anything you wish, so long as it is not considered "unsafe" by the
FAA.
John Hart
--
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: 37 degree flares...was Gascolator |
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I visited my EAA chapter today, and looked at our Rigid #377 flaring
tool. I read the instruction sheet....if it comes with an instruction
sheet, it's probably a pretty good tool...and here's what it said:
"Turn feed screw handle CW until pressure kick-out releases. A few
additional turns before backing off will burnish flare." Pressure
kick-out? Man, this tool is a far cry from the normal tools I've
witnessed in some aircraft fixers toolboxes. It has needle bearings,
ball thrust bearings, a very fine thread for the feed screw, meaning
that it takes very little torque to make a flare. The forming
"anvil" (I'll call it) rotates in an orbital path, so it is only
touching one small portion of the tubing at any one time, preventing
galling...man, this thing is slick! And for about $101-$116, the
price isn't too bad, but a bit much for the average user. I would
get one in a heartbeat if I was just starting out.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 35mm)
Status: flying...1096 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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