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pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: ethanol

What I have found in washing the alcohol from my gasoline is that a     small amount of settling occurs in the tank while the plane is     sitting.  I drain my gascolator before and after each flight.  The     gascolator bowl has started to rust and I plan to clean it up and     coat the bowl with Kreem.  I discontinued using washed gas over the     winter since my plane sat more.  I may try washing my gas twice to     see if this stops the settlement.

     Pete

     On 2/7/2011 8:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:     [quote]                       <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->                

If you             really, really have to fly on ethanol fuel then you have             already broken the first cardinal rule.  Never leave fuel in             your plane for an extended period of time.  If you have high             humidity, as you said,  it will absorb some of the moisture             and when that happens it, not only gets closer to a phase             separation but becomes very corrosive....  It may eat your             tanks if they are anything but stainless steel.  It will             probably start to eat your fuel system including the carb             body and the fuel lines.  Best not to leave it in the plane             and only fly on fresh fuel.  BTW you will know when you have             a phase separation happening...  you will get something just             over 10% of the quantity of fuel in your tank showing up as             water.  So if you have left say 15 gal of fuel in your plane             then if it separates you will get 1.5 gallons of             water/ethanol solution (mostly water) hitting your carb or             injectors.  A little good news is if you are using a paper             filter it will try to block the water from passing...              unfortunately there won’t be anything else but water to             pass.  The milky substance you did find is probably             something the ethanol started to eat.          

The second             point is as Barry mentioned remove the ethanol form your             fuel by adding enough water to cause a phase separation.              Then siphon the clear ethanol free gas off the top of the             water ethanol solution that will form on the bottom of the             container.  Be careful though, to let the gas sit for about             twenty minutes so all the water can settle out before             siphoning the gas.  And always use a good chamois or felt to             strain your gas...  either of those products will pass gas             but not water.  If you remove the ethanol from your fuel             then it won’t hurt to leave the gas in your plane between             flights for periods of up to I guess a month or so.         

Noel         

From:               owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)               [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                 Behalf Of FLYaDIVE

               Sent: February 7, 2011 2:29 PM

               To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)

               Subject: Re: ethanol         

Joe:                    

There are a few things that would cause             your fuel to go cloudy:         

Contamination in the tank.         

Hygroscopic action of the alcohol         

Temperature (low) causing the water to             freeze         

Being that you found only 1/2 ounce I             would also consider:         

The drain plugs as being contaminated due             to oxidation         

How clean was the inspection tube that             you were using         

When you say 'separation',             are you referring to the water separating out from the fuel             due to saturation?  If yes, then YES you could be seeing the             water above what the alcohol would hold in suspension.         

A 1/2 ounce... I would not worry about.              But why use gas with ethanol - Do the separation procedure             that has been discussed here on line and you will reduce the             chances of water.         

Barry                        

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Joe               and Joan Kimbell <jnjkimbell(at)hotmail.com (jnjkimbell(at)hotmail.com)>               wrote:                            

Appreciate some info concerning fuel                 seperation.  I have CH701 with the 100hp riotax.  I live                 in a high humedity area and have not been flying much                 lately.  I use 10%  ethanol fuel and last time I started                 to fly (fuel had been in A/C over a month) and checked                 the lowest drain, I found cloudy fuel, not water, but                 did not lood good.  I continued to drain fuel until it                 was clear, probably a half an ounce. Was this cloudy                 fuel on the point of seperation?  I did go ahead and fly                 with no problems, but after thinking about it, what                 would the list's ideas be.  Very glad it kept running,                 though an both tanks the fuel seemed to come out of only                 one tank.  No external fuel pump.  Gravity feed.

                 ==========

                 > 

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raybot(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: ethanol

How in the world do millions of cars run trillions  of miles trouble free on this stuff??

 [quote]   ---

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: ethanol

Â  Their tanks are sealed, and they purchase fresh gas all the time.

--- On Wed, 5/25/11, ray atkinson <raybot(at)comcast.net> wrote:

From: ray atkinson <raybot(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: ethanol

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 11:31 AM

How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free on this stuff??

---

rickyd54(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:27 am Post subject: ethanol

Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!

Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 months and then see how well it runs.

Rick



On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot(at)comcast.net (raybot(at)comcast.net)> wrote:



[quote]  How in the world do millions of cars run trillions  of miles trouble free on this stuff??

 [quote]   ---

rickyd54(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: ethanol

Who said they were "trouble free"?



On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot(at)comcast.net (raybot(at)comcast.net)> wrote:



[quote]  How in the world do millions of cars run trillions  of miles trouble free on this stuff??

 [quote]   ---

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: ethanol

I know for sure my car mileage went down when they started pumping     gasohol.

     

     Pete

     

     

     On 5/25/2011 11:25 AM, Rick Thomason wrote:     [quote]       Who said they were "trouble free"?

         

         On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <raybot(at)comcast.net (raybot(at)comcast.net)>         wrote:

         

       

       [quote]                    How in the world do millions               of cars run trillions of miles trouble free on this               stuff??

           [quote]             ---

raybot(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: ethanol

I,ve burned year old gas and gas oil mix from my  friends plane that was old and never missed a beat.I know its not not great as  fuel gut it works pretty good really. Phase separation with a gallon and a half  of water? In my situation its impractical to wash gas.I am not allowed to store  gas in my hanger much less siphon it and transfer it and all this other stuff  that will eventually lead to a spill minor or otherwise.Plane owners in  adjoining hanger don,t like the smell of gas fumes and my contract specifically  forbids this.If you do it somewhere else and then transport?  

 [quote]   ---

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:06 am Post subject: ethanol

BS

I leave two cars for 6 months each year unused 

full of gas and have never seen any negative things. The cars work just fine.

True - Cars and planes are like apples and 

oranges. Cars are designed for toxic and 

corrosive fuel and your homebuilt or certified planes are not.

Paul

======

At 10:24 AM 5/25/2011, Rick Thomason wrote:

[quote]Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!

Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 

months and then see how well it runs.

Rick

On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" 

<<mailto:raybot(at)comcast.net>raybot(at)comcast.net> wrote:

>How in the world do millions of cars run 

>trillions of miles trouble free on this stuff??

>---

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: Re: ethanol

If you use washed 91 oct it will be 87 when your done. If you have a 912ULS (100 hp) that won't work.  If you start with 87 oct it isn't fit for either 912. You will eventually end up replacing the carb bowls at $100 a piece because the very small amount of moisture still in the fuel will pit the aluminum bowl. I have had to replace a few of these already for the long term hard core washers.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: ethanol

According to Portablefuelsystems.com before washing 91.3 octane     after washing 88.7.

     

     Pete

     

     

     On 5/25/2011 5:28 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:     [quote]Hi Roger:       

       

       How did you get the octane rating of 87 after washing 91?

       

       

       Alcohol does add a small amount of octane but I really doubt         if it is 4 points.

       

       

       Do you know anyone that can run octane tests?  

       

       

       I have a couple of tests I want to get done.

         

       

       As for the pitting of the fuel bowl... That is an easy cure.          Send it out and get it Hard Coat Anodized to a thickness of         0.0025".  It should cost about $20 to $50 tops.  When talking to         the plating house you - should - know what kind of aluminum it         is made from.  OR at least if it is cast or machined from a         billet.  Also be nice to the house and ask if they could just         run it with a bigger batch - NO SPECIAL HANDLING REQUIRED.  This         keeps price down.

       

       

       Barry

                On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Roger           Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		               --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

             

             If you use washed 91 oct it will be 87 when your done. If             you have a 912ULS (100 hp) that won't work.  If you start             with 87 oct it isn't fit for either 912. You will eventually             end up replacing the carb bowls at $100 a piece because the             very small amount of moisture still in the fuel will pit the             aluminum bowl. I have had to replace a few of these already             for the long term hard core washers.

             

             --------

             Roger Lee

             Tucson, Az.

             Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

             Rotax Repair Center

             Home [url=tel:520-574-1080]520-574-1080[/url]  TRY HOME FIRST

             Cell [url=tel:520-349-7056]520-349-7056[/url]

             

             

             

             

             Read this topic online here:

             

             http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340993#340993

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

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     [b]

rickyd54(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:44 pm Post subject: ethanol

I said "half a tank" so the ethanol can suck all the water out of the air. I just switched over to 100LL. Better to spew lead into the air than kill myself over a water droplet or dissolved fiberglass.

On May 25, 2011, at 1:56 PM, paul wilson <pwmac(at)sisna.com> wrote:

[quote] 

 BS

 I leave two cars for 6 months each year unused full of gas and have never seen any negative things. The cars work just fine.

 True - Cars and planes are like apples and oranges. Cars are designed for toxic and corrosive fuel and your homebuilt or certified planes are not.

 Paul

 ======

 At 10:24 AM 5/25/2011, Rick Thomason wrote:

> Because they don't have fiberglass fuel tanks!

> 

> Leave a half tank of gasohol in your car for 2 months and then see how well it runs.

> 

> Rick

> 

> On May 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, "ray atkinson" <<mailto:raybot(at)comcast.net>raybot(at)comcast.net> wrote:

> 

>> How in the world do millions of cars run trillions of miles trouble free on this stuff??

>> ---

rickyd54(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: ethanol

I find it odd that some airports have this policy since most plane owners "store" over 25 gallons of fuel in the tanks of the plane. What's the difference? 



On May 25, 2011, at 12:41 PM, "ray atkinson" <raybot(at)comcast.net (raybot(at)comcast.net)> wrote:



[quote]  I,ve burned year old gas and gas oil mix from my  friends plane that was old and never missed a beat.I know its not not great as  fuel gut it works pretty good really. Phase separation with a gallon and a half  of water? In my situation its impractical to wash gas.I am not allowed to store  gas in my hanger much less siphon it and transfer it and all this other stuff  that will eventually lead to a spill minor or otherwise.Plane owners in  adjoining hanger don,t like the smell of gas fumes and my contract specifically  forbids this.If you do it somewhere else and then transport?  

 [quote]   ---

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: ethanol

I have seen two test reports from the companies that make these fuel washing systems. They both showed me reports starting with 91 and came out with 87. No matter what the octane (88.7 or 87) it's too low for the 912ULS and it still causes corrosion in either engine. The ethanol is not an issue at all for the Rotax 912 series engine. You just need to make sure you use the proper fuel hoses and know what your fuel tank is made out of. I have seen several people take their tanks and slosh them with Kreem Weiss and just use the ethanol since it is impervious to the ethanol. The entire fleet of Flight Design aircraft uses the Kreem Weiss and a huge majority use ethanol laced fuel without any issue and has been for years. The fuel storage issue in hangars is a fire code issue and airports don't normally buck that system as it would leave them liable.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: ethanol-- on You tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReguEsLfKcI

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikyc0xOAjbw

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQLfJrFc_c

 

some fun with ethanol and water after testing  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZOY8z_9Tk

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:11 pm Post subject: ethanol

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 9:00 PM, dave <dave(at)cfisher.com (dave(at)cfisher.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "dave" <dave(at)cfisher.com (dave(at)cfisher.com)>

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReguEsLfKcI

	
  

 This guy runs a test like a drunk sailor runs from the SP.

  

 [quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikyc0xOAjbw

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnQLfJrFc_c



some fun with ethanol and water after testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZOY8z_9Tk

 

--------

Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

http://www.cfisher.com/

http://www.kitfoxflyer.com/

http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/

 Realtime Kitfox movies to separate  the internet  chatter from the truth

http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer





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 =====



[b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: ethanol

It isn't the storage of fuel that's the problem, it's the transfer from jerry cans to airplane. I published this story in our EAA chapter's newsletter a couple of years ago.



I had a rather exciting experience that occurred while refueling my RV-6A. I have a Mazda 13B as a power plant using auto fuel. Not having auto fuel at the airport, I have been transporting it in a 5 gallon plastic container (approved for auto fuel) and using a funnel to pour the gasoline into the wing tank.

 Sensitive to the risks of static electricity, I always grounded (I know - I question whether you can truly "ground" a plastic container) the plastic container against the airframe prior to pouring in the gasoline. I have refuel the aircraft many times before using this method (as well numerous lawn mowers, weed wackers, etc). I had hauled the aircraft out of the hangar and had it sitting in the middle of the tarmac in front of the hanger and had commenced to refuel.

 Well, this time it happened. As I was approximately half-way through pouring from the five gallon container into the funnel (the plastic funnel is a very wide mouth with a filter cartridge in its center- used to quickly fill race cars) the fireworks started. The gasoline ignited with a "Swoosh" and I found myself holding a flaming funnel as well as the five gallon container which had flames coming from its opening.

 Needless to say, things got very exciting and busy in a hurry. As I reacted to the flames going off, I swung the container away, which was in my right hand, removed the flaming funnel from the wing tank opening with my left hand. In the process, I sloshed some flaming gasoline onto the wing and tarmac. And flames were now also coming from the opening of the wing tank. So by quick count, I had flames coming out of the wing tank, some burning on the wing, a patch burning on the tarmac, a flaming funnel as well as the 5 gallon container on fire. Did I say things got exciting in a hurry?

 I immediately move the flaming container about 12-15 feet away from the aircraft and set it down, quickly moved the flaming funnel about 5 feet from the container and laid it down.. Immediately dashed to the plane and placed the fuel cap into the tank opening stuffing out that fire, smothered the fire on the wing, ran back to the container and placed its lid on the flaming opening smothering that fire, moved the still flaming funnel further away, smothered the fire on the tarmac and then returned to smother the funnel.

 Finally, all fires are extinguished and I take time for a breath. Wasn't timing myself as I was somewhat distracted at the moment, but believe the entire event from ignition to all flames out was around 30-45 seconds (could be wrong about the time, but not by much). Old men can move quickly if motivated properly.

 Yes, I did have a fire extinguisher, but had neglected to take it out of the car and when I ran to the car and reached under the drivers seat—IT was NOT there (Later found it under the passengers seat). I also have a small Halon fire extinguisher mounted between the seats of aircraft - but, again distance and flames were between it and me.

 Won't make that mistake again. Also, I will never use a plastic container again, but will use a metal one with a little cable attached that I can ground to the aircraft. I will also not use a plastic funnel, but will probably use one of the rotary pumps with hose and nozzle grounded.

 So, the good news is no damage to me or the aircraft and a much wiser me. While it had not ever happened before, I quickly found out that one time is one time too many.

Rick Girard



 On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Rick Thomason <rickyd54(at)gmail.com (rickyd54(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] I find it odd that some airports have this policy since most plane owners "store" over 25 gallons of fuel in the tanks of the plane. What's the difference? 



On May 25, 2011, at 12:41 PM, "ray atkinson" <raybot(at)comcast.net (raybot(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 

[quote]  I,ve burned year old gas and gas oil mix from my  friends plane that was old and never missed a beat.I know its not not great as  fuel gut it works pretty good really. Phase separation with a gallon and a half  of water? In my situation its impractical to wash gas.I am not allowed to store  gas in my hanger much less siphon it and transfer it and all this other stuff  that will eventually lead to a spill minor or otherwise.Plane owners in  adjoining hanger don,t like the smell of gas fumes and my contract specifically  forbids this.If you do it somewhere else and then transport?  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:51 am Post subject: ethanol

I put the marine version of Stabil in all my gas, even if I fly that day.  It has an ethanol treatment in it.

  

  

  

    

  From: Richard Girard (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:39 PM

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: Re: ethanol

  



 It  isn't the storage of fuel that's the problem, it's the transfer from jerry cans  to airplane. I published this story in our EAA chapter's newsletter a couple of  years ago.   

  I had a rather exciting experience that occurred while refueling my RV-6A.  I have a Mazda 13B as a power plant using auto fuel. Not having auto fuel at the  airport, I have been transporting it in a 5 gallon plastic container (approved  for auto fuel) and using a funnel to pour the gasoline into the wing tank.

 Sensitive to the risks of static electricity, I always grounded (I know - I  question whether you can truly "ground" a plastic container) the plastic  container against the airframe prior to pouring in the gasoline. I have refuel  the aircraft many times before using this method (as well numerous lawn mowers,  weed wackers, etc). I had hauled the aircraft out of the hangar and had it  sitting in the middle of the tarmac in front of the hanger and had commenced to  refuel.

 Well, this time it happened. As I was approximately half-way through  pouring from the five gallon container into the funnel (the plastic funnel is a  very wide mouth with a filter cartridge in its center- used to quickly fill race  cars) the fireworks started. The gasoline ignited with a "Swoosh" and I found  myself holding a flaming funnel as well as the five gallon container which had  flames coming from its opening.

 Needless to say, things got very exciting and busy in a hurry. As I reacted  to the flames going off, I swung the container away, which was in my right hand,  removed the flaming funnel from the wing tank opening with my left hand. In the  process, I sloshed some flaming gasoline onto the wing and tarmac. And flames  were now also coming from the opening of the wing tank. So by quick count, I had  flames coming out of the wing tank, some burning on the wing, a patch burning on  the tarmac, a flaming funnel as well as the 5 gallon container on fire. Did I  say things got exciting in a hurry?

 I immediately move the flaming container about 12-15 feet away from the  aircraft and set it down, quickly moved the flaming funnel about 5 feet from the  container and laid it down.. Immediately dashed to the plane and placed the fuel  cap into the tank opening stuffing out that fire, smothered the fire on the  wing, ran back to the container and placed its lid on the flaming opening  smothering that fire, moved the still flaming funnel further away, smothered the  fire on the tarmac and then returned to smother the funnel.

 Finally, all fires are extinguished and I take time for a breath. Wasn't  timing myself as I was somewhat distracted at the moment, but believe the entire  event from ignition to all flames out was around 30-45 seconds (could be wrong  about the time, but not by much). Old men can move quickly if motivated  properly.

 Yes, I did have a fire extinguisher, but had neglected to take it out of  the car and when I ran to the car and reached under the drivers seat—IT was NOT  there (Later found it under the passengers seat). I also have a small Halon fire  extinguisher mounted between the seats of aircraft - but, again distance and  flames were between it and me.

 Won't make that mistake again. Also, I will never use a plastic container  again, but will use a metal one with a little cable attached that I can ground  to the aircraft. I will also not use a plastic funnel, but will probably use one  of the rotary pumps with hose and nozzle grounded.

 So, the good news is no damage to me or the aircraft and a much wiser me.  While it had not ever happened before, I quickly found out that one time is one  time too many.

  

 Rick Girard

  

 On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Rick Thomason <rickyd54(at)gmail.com (rickyd54(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]      I find it odd that some airports have this policy since most plane owners    "store" over 25 gallons of fuel in the tanks of the plane. What's the    difference? 



On May 25, 2011, at 12:41 PM, "ray atkinson" <raybot(at)comcast.net (raybot(at)comcast.net)>    wrote:

   

   [quote]          I,ve burned year old gas and gas oil mix from      my friends plane that was old and never missed a beat.I know its not not      great as fuel gut it works pretty good really. Phase separation with a      gallon and a half of water? In my situation its impractical to wash gas.I am      not allowed to store gas in my hanger much less siphon it and transfer it      and all this other stuff that will eventually lead to a spill minor or      otherwise.Plane owners in adjoining hanger don,t like the smell of gas fumes      and my contract specifically forbids this.If you do it somewhere else and      then transport?  

     [quote]              ---

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:15 am Post subject: Re: ethanol

Rick,



Thanks for your fire story. Glad that you had a very cheap learning experience. Could have been disastrous. 



That is the first actual case of fire from static discharge I've heard of using plastic cans for filling an aircraft tank. I use a 15 gallon storage tank and hand pump but have been neglecting grounding it to the airframe due to sheer laziness. I will be grounding from now on, without fail.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: ethanol

http://portablefuelsystems.com/AlcoholSeparator.htm

     

     On 5/25/2011 9:18 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:     [quote]       Hello Pete:

        

       I went to the web site, could not find anythng about washing         the gas or octain ratings.

        

       Could you send the exact link that will get me to where you         read the information.

        

       Barry

         

       

       On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Pete         Christensen <pchristensen10(at)austin.rr.com (pchristensen10(at)austin.rr.com)>         wrote:

          	  Quote: 	
		             According to             Portablefuelsystems.com before washing 91.3 octane after             washing 88.7.

             

             Pete             

               

               

               On 5/25/2011 5:28 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote: 

              	  Quote: 	
		                 Hi Roger:                 

                 

                 How did you get the octane rating of 87 after                   washing 91?

                 

                 

                 Alcohol does add a small amount of octane but I                   really doubt if it is 4 points.

                 

                 

                 Do you know anyone that can run octane tests?  

                 

                 

                 I have a couple of tests I want to get done.

                   

                 

                 As for the pitting of the fuel bowl... That is an                   easy cure.  Send it out and get it Hard Coat Anodized                   to a thickness of 0.0025".  It should cost about $20                   to $50 tops.  When talking to the plating house you -                   should - know what kind of aluminum it is made from.                    OR at least if it is cast or machined from a billet.                    Also be nice to the house and ask if they could just                   run it with a bigger batch - NO SPECIAL HANDLING                   REQUIRED.  This keeps price down.

                 

                 

                 Barry

               

                                                   On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Roger                     Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>                     wrote:

                   

                    	  Quote: 	
		                       --> RotaxEngines-List message                       posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

                       

                       If you use washed 91 oct it will be 87 when your                       done. If you have a 912ULS (100 hp) that won't                       work.  If you start with 87 oct it isn't fit for                       either 912. You will eventually end up replacing                       the carb bowls at $100 a piece because the very                       small amount of moisture still in the fuel will                       pit the aluminum bowl. I have had to replace a few                       of these already for the long term hard core                       washers.

                       

                       --------

                       Roger Lee

                       Tucson, Az.

                       Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

                       Rotax Repair Center

                       Home [url=tel:520-574-1080]520-574-1080[/url]  TRY HOME                       FIRST

                       Cell [url=tel:520-349-7056]520-349-7056[/url]

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       Read this topic online here:

                       

                       http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340993#340993

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                     

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                             	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
             

           

         

	
     [b]

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: ethanol

Roger,



I have an older 912 from 1991 so I do not need more than 87 octane.  

Here in the Austin area the pumps say 93 octane.  I'm interested in the 

bowl pitting.  Does the corrosion eat through the bowls?  I'm on pure 

avgas not but thought I would start testing a 2 phase washing process in 

the near future.  I guess a guy could slosh the bowls with Kreem to 

prevent pitting.



Pete

Leander, Tx

Kitfox III 912



On 5/25/2011 7:39 PM, Roger Lee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have seen two test reports from the companies that make these fuel washing systems. They both showed me reports starting with 91 and came out with 87. No matter what the octane (88.7 or 87) it's too low for the 912ULS and it still causes corrosion in either engine. The ethanol is not an issue at all for the Rotax 912 series engine. You just need to make sure you use the proper fuel hoses and know what your fuel tank is made out of. I have seen several people take their tanks and slosh them with Kreem Weiss and just use the ethanol since it is impervious to the ethanol. The fuel storage issue in hangars is a fire code issue and airports don't normally buck that system as it would leave them liable.



 --------

 Roger Lee

 Tucson, Az.

 Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

 Rotax Repair Center

 Home 520-574-1080  TRY HOME FIRST

 Cell 520-349-7056





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=341050#341050

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