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Tail Mod???

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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

All;

  

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar.

    

 I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

    

 THANKS!

  

 Galin

  

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tmclam

Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 4

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and Balance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler solution. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                Ted 



 

   

 

From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM

Subject: Tail Mod???



 All;

  

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar.

  

 I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

  

 THANKS!

  

 Galin

  

 [img]cid:ii_1317ce157db8d0ce[/img]

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_________________
Ted

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

I have extended the elevator by approximately 1.5". I have heard many comments that this might be a bad idea making the plane too sensitive to the elevator, but nothing like this has happened, the plane is very docile, but the forces for the elerons and the elevator are now comparable. 

 Now, I have much more effective elevator allowing me to hold the nose up longer on landing. In fact I am considering adding another inch to the elevator.

  

 Checking the Weight and Balance is a good idea no matter if you are going to extend the elevator or not.

  

 Jerzy



 

   From: "tmclam(at)comcast.net" <tmclam(at)comcast.net>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 6:34:26 PM

Subject: Re: Tail Mod???



 p {margin:0;}   

Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and Balance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler solution. 

                                                                                                                                                                &nbs p;                               Ted 



 

   

 

From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM

Subject: Tail Mod???



 All;

  

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar.

  

 I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

  

 THANKS!

  

 Galin

  

 [img]cid:1.442452743(at)web82207.mail.mud.yahoo.com[/img]

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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:46 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

THANKS for the quick reply. I did a complete W&B back when I first started to tackle this issue. The airplane W&B is very well within the envelope during all phases of flight. It is actually a tiny bit aft so I really don't want to move it any further aft than it already is. That is why I first started with the VG's and they made a big difference. But it still needs a bit more nose up authority at slow speeds.

Jerzy, do you have VG's on your elevator or just the additional 1.5"? Also, did you extend the entire elevator to include the trim tab?

Galin

On Saturday, July 30, 2011, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net (jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 > I have extended the elevator by approximately 1.5". I have heard many comments that this might be a bad idea making the plane too sensitive to the elevator, but nothing like this has happened, the plane is very docile, but the forces for the elerons and the elevator are now comparable. 

 > Now, I have much more effective elevator allowing me to hold the nose up longer on landing. In fact I am considering adding another inch to the elevator.

 	  Quote: 	

 Checking the Weight and Balance is a good idea no matter if you are going to extend the elevator or not.

 >  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jerzy

 ________________________________

 From: "tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)" <tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)>

 > To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 	  Quote: 	
		   Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 6:34:26 PM

 Subject: Re: KIS-List: Tail Mod???

 Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and Balance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler solution.

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		                                                                                                                                                                   &nbs p;                               Ted 

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		   ________________________________

 From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Tail Mod???

 All;

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar.

 >  

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

 >  

[quote] THANKS!

 Galin

 </mail/s/?view=att&th=1317e09a3a354655&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&zw>  [quote][b]

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

This is pissing me off.  I have replied twice using my PC and both ended up with no message.  I don't know what the problem is but it is really frustrating.



Galin:  check on my website under the Tips & Tricks button for Elevator Extension for two examples of exactly what you are proposing.  Bill Shertz's mod shows good detail of a solution to one issue regarding the additional counter balance weight.  Al's use of carbon fiber would help reduce weight.



By the way, I think I know someone in Big-D area that has some glasswork experience who could be bribed into helping.

Bob Reed

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 30, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net> wrote:



 	  Quote:

wschertz(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:07 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

Yes, I added about 1.5 inches just as you described. I trim for 70 KIAS for  the pattern okay. Am on travel now, will lookup pictures when I get home.

  

 Bill  Schertz

KIS Cruiser #4045

N343BS

Phase one testing Completed

    

  From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:11 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Tail Mod???

  



  All;

  

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to  land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up  trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands  off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am  thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you  have done something similar.

  

 I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include  the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail?  If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what  I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny  remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

  

 THANKS!

  

 Galin

  

 [img]cid:1C56F8EFF652485287534DEC9111D13D(at)WschertzPC[/img]

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jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

I have VGs added recently, they help too, but I feel that an extra inch is needed, making total of 2.5" extension.

My trimmer is roughly twice the size of the original trimmer. With all of these I can trim ok for approach for landing, however the nose still drops down at relatively high speed.

Jerzy

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 9:46:01 PM

Subject: Re: Tail Mod???

 THANKS for the quick reply. I did a complete W&B back when I first started to tackle this issue. The airplane W&B is very well within the envelope during all phases of flight. It is actually a tiny bit aft so I really don't want to move it any further aft than it already is. That is why I first started with the VG's and they made a big difference. But it still needs a bit more nose up authority at slow speeds.

Jerzy, do you have VG's on your elevator or just the additional 1.5"? Also, did you extend the entire elevator to include the trim tab?

Galin

On Saturday, July 30, 2011, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net (jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 > I have extended the elevator by approximately 1.5". I have heard many comments that this might be a bad idea making the plane too sensitive to the elevator, but nothing like this has happened, the plane is very docile, but the forces for the elerons and the elevator are now comparable. 

 > Now, I have much more effective elevator allowing me to hold the nose up longer on landing. In fact I am considering adding another inch to the elevator.

 	  Quote: 	

 Checking the Weight and Balance is a good idea no matter if you are going to extend the elevator or not.

 >  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jerzy

 ________________________________

 From: "tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)" <tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)>

 > To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 	  Quote: 	
		   Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 6:34:26 PM

 Subject: Re: Tail Mod???

 Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and Balance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler solution.

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		                                                                                                                                                                    &n bs p;                               Ted 

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		   ________________________________

 From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Tail Mod???

 All;

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar.

 >  

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

 >  

[quote] THANKS!

 Galin

 </mail/s/?view=att&th=1317e09a3a354655&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&zw>   	  Quote: 	

[b]

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

I built a new carbon fiber elevator in the factory mold and made it 2 inches longer in chord and i made the trim tab about half the span of the right elevator.  I also increased the size of the counter balance.  I have not run out of trim in any condition and the aileron and elevator forces are about equal.  I think adding 2 inches to the elevator chord is a must do mod to a tr-1.



Remember to rebalance the elevator.  



  I have a set of original fiberglass factory elevators if anyone ever needs them.



Scott



Sent from my iPad



On Jul 30, 2011, at 2:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   All;

  

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar.

  

 I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

  

 THANKS!

  

 Galin

  

 <Horiz Stab Mod.JPG>

Flyinisfun(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:18 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

Concerning the elevator extension:

  

 I added about 1 3/4" to the elevator of my TR-1.  In the process I  knifed edged the trailing edge with poor flying results.  I had about  3/4" neutral travel without any plane response.  It dawned on me that  the original trailing edge had a 1/4" offset and maybe this was my  problem.  I took a sanding block and sanded the trailing edge blunt by  about 1/8 inch with a dramatic difference.  I now have control  response through complete up and down travel and feed back in the stick in the  neutral zone.  When extending the elevator, I suggest this to be a  mandatory thing to do.  I have also put VG s on the lower edge which added  more control.

  

          Jesse     

 [quote][b]

wschertz(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:23 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

Here is what I did.

  

 Bill  Schertz

KIS Cruiser #4045

N343BS

Phase one testing Completed

    

  From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:46 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Tail Mod???

  



 THANKS  for the quick reply. I did a complete W&B back when I first started to  tackle this issue. The airplane W&B is very well within the envelope during  all phases of flight. It is actually a tiny bit aft so I really don't want to  move it any further aft than it already is. That is why I first started with the  VG's and they made a big difference. But it still needs a bit more nose up  authority at slow speeds.



Jerzy, do you have VG's on your elevator or  just the additional 1.5"? Also, did you extend the entire elevator to include  the trim tab?



Galin



On Saturday, July 30, 2011, jerzy krasinski  <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net (jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net)>  wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have extended the elevator by approximately 1.5". I have heard  many comments that this might be a bad idea making the plane too sensitive to  the elevator, but nothing like this has happened, the plane is very docile, but  the forces for the elerons and the elevator are now comparable. 

 Now, I  have much more effective elevator allowing me to hold the nose up longer on  landing. In fact I am considering adding another inch to the  elevator.

  

 Checking the Weight and Balance is a good idea  no matter if you are going to extend the elevator or not.

  

  Jerzy



 ________________________________

 From: "tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)" <tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Sent:  Sat, July 30, 2011 6:34:26 PM

 Subject: Re: Tail  Mod???



 Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck  your Weight and Balance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler  solution.



                                                                                                                                                                  &nbs  p;                                Ted 



 ________________________________



 From:  "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 Sent:  Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM

 Subject: Tail  Mod???



 All;

  

 I find that even with the  VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at  an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back  pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS  and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a  modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something  similar.

  

 I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the  rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing  this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I  added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am  thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a  Picasso. )

  

 THANKS!

  

  Galin

  

  </mail/s/?view=att&th=1317e09a3a354655&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&zw>   	  Quote: 	
		  


	


href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:32 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

Galin,

 If you go to Bob's web site, I have a description and pictures of the elevator extension (with trim tab) procedure. I think Bill and others also have

 their elevator mods there too.You want to extend the trim tab as well to keep the trailing edge uniform and to to better control the larger elevator.

 Al

 On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 12:17 AM, Bill Schertz <wschertz(at)comcast.net (wschertz(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]    Here is what I did.

 Bill Schertz

KIS Cruiser #4045

N343BS

Phase one testing Completed

  From: Galin Hernandez (galinhdz(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:46 PM

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Tail Mod???

 THANKS for the quick reply. I did a complete W&B back when I first started to tackle this issue. The airplane W&B is very well within the envelope during all phases of flight. It is actually a tiny bit aft so I really don't want to move it any further aft than it already is. That is why I first started with the VG's and they made a big difference. But it still needs a bit more nose up authority at slow speeds.

Jerzy, do you have VG's on your elevator or just the additional 1.5"? Also, did you extend the entire elevator to include the trim tab?

Galin

On Saturday, July 30, 2011, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net (jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 > I have extended the elevator by approximately 1.5". I have heard many comments that this might be a bad idea making the plane too sensitive to the elevator, but nothing like this has happened, the plane is very docile, but the forces for the elerons and the elevator are now comparable. 

 > Now, I have much more effective elevator allowing me to hold the nose up longer on landing. In fact I am considering adding another inch to the elevator.

 	  Quote: 	

 Checking the Weight and Balance is a good idea no matter if you are going to extend the elevator or not.

 >  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jerzy

 ________________________________

 From: "tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)" <tmclam(at)comcast.net (tmclam(at)comcast.net)>

 > To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 	  Quote: 	
		   Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 6:34:26 PM

 Subject: Re: Tail Mod???

 Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and Balance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler solution.

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		                                                                                                                                                                   &nbs p;                               Ted 

 >

 	  Quote: 	
		   ________________________________

 From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Tail Mod???

 All;

 I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar.

 >  

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. )

 >  

 	  Quote: 	
		   THANKS!

 Galin

 </mail/s/?view=att&th=1317e09a3a354655&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&zw>  	  Quote: 	

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:59 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

Hi Jerzy,



Has you main gear contact location been moved forward?



The stock trim tab size is too small.  It should be double the size.



Mark



--

jforster(at)baisch.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:11 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

Mark,



By double the size, do you mean in span or chord?



And how much do you suggest moving the main gear forward?



Thanks!

John Forster

 



--

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

Mark,

  

 When I first assembled my elevators and did the initial cuts for the trim tab it just didn't look right.  It seemed to be much too large so I reread the instructions and discovered that I had incorrectly read the location of the hinge line.  I filled the area and recut along the correct location.  Now it seems that if I had not caught the mistake I might have been better off.  Funny how things seem to go in circles.

  

 Bob Reed

 

   From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, August 3, 2011 5:45:35 AM

Subject: Re: Tail Mod???



--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Hi Jerzy,



Has you main gear contact location been moved forward?



The stock trim tab size is too small.  It should be double the size.



Mark



--

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:14 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

John,



It is best to increase the tab in length.  But you could add a second tab on the other side or you can increase the tab in both length and cord to double the area.  Just increasing it in cord is not as effective but as a quick fix you can scarf of more cord to the current tab and test fly it.   Make sure your surface is still in the range of balance. 



Is yours a TR1 or TR4?  In any case I can not tell from my old notes what amount I did.  The way to figure it out is you find alpha for the airfoil at 0.9 of max Cl.  This is about 6 to 8 degrees for our airfoil depending on flaps.  From this subtract the wing incidence angle, I think 2 degrees.  Then add 3 degrees.  I think I used 8 degrees for this total (7-2+3=.  Then find your most aft CG and estimate the height of this.  From this point make a line down to the ground that is slanted 8 degrees aft of vertical.  Where this line meets the ground is the location for the main gear.  This method is from Darrol Stinton's book.



Mark



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jforster(at)baisch.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:24 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

Thanks Mark!



I've got a TR-4.  I'm still building, so let the flaming begin 



I can add length to the tab fairly easily at this point, but adding chord would mess up my servo installation.



I'll give the calcs a go.  I don't have Stinton's book, but I've got Skip Smith's book and I'll see what he has to say.



John



 

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lgdavid(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: Tail Mod???

Seeing all the improvements you guys are coming up with based on your 

actual flying experience makes me almost want to build another one.  

Keep up the good work so I can share vicariously in your progress.  Larry



On 8/3/2011 9:22 AM, John Forster wrote:

[quote] 



 Thanks Mark!



 I've got a TR-4.  I'm still building, so let the flaming begin 



 I can add length to the tab fairly easily at this point, but adding chord would mess up my servo installation.



 I'll give the calcs a go.  I don't have Stinton's book, but I've got Skip Smith's book and I'll see what he has to say.



 John





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jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject: Tail Mod???

The main gear was installed at some angle forward using angular shims between the fuselage and the gear. That moved the ground contact point a few inches forward

  

 The trim tab was too small, I roughly doubled it in size. 

  

 Jerzy



    From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, August 3, 2011 5:45:35 AM

Subject: Re: Tail Mod???



--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Hi Jerzy,



Has you main gear contact location been moved forward?



The stock trim tab size is too small.  It should be double the size.



Mark



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