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phactor9
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: Welding? |
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A big thanks to all the welding gurus. I appreciate every single post; all the pics and videos and answers. Fascinating stuff.
I decided on the Victor Firepower Oxy/Acetylene kit and placed my order from WeldingSupply.com at what I believe are great prices (after much web surfing):
https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/browsecatalogs.pl
0384-2551 - FirePower Heavy/Medium Duty $149.38
WES317 - 520 tank to 510 reg $9.99
WES324 - 200 tank to 510 reg $9.99
WES61 - 300 tank to 510 reg $4.95
This will allow hooking up the CGA-510 reg to most of the various Acetylene tanks available. Now I just need to find tanks to rent in my area.
Phil H.
--- On Tue, 8/16/11, racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: Re: Welding?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 10:56 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>
Stick welding and MIG is relatively easy and you can probably learn on your own trough practice before beginning a serious project. As a matter of fact, you might get much more out of a welding course if you already have experimented with the welding process. Of course, you may have to un-learn some mistakes. Reading helps, especially in diagnosing poor welds; but as they say: practice, practice and practice some more before working on anything important. Stick and MIG is kind of like walking a tightrope and juggling with one hand at the same time.
Gas welding adds another dimension. Got to push the ‘bubble’ around and occasionally feed rod – like walking the tightrope and juggling with two hands.
TIG welding adds a third dimension (foot pedal). Got to walk the tightrope, juggle with two hands and a foot and HOP across the tightrope. Seriously, you need all of your gas welding skills down before learning TIG. A trade school should work well to see if you really want to invest in the equipment.
MIG vs TIG
Another aspect is that MIG lays down welding wire rapidly. Too rapid for welding small thin 4130 tubing unless you know what you are dong. Often you can get a good looking weld bead but in reality the bead is just sitting on top with little penetration. MIG is great for stock car roll bars and general welding, is fast, requires little clean-up, is a lot of fun and requires much less skill than TIG. With MIG, I like to weave a bit to get as much heat into the joint as I dare to insure penetration. MIG (&TIG) also has the advantage of being able to join thick materials with thin (difficult with stick or gas welding). In trying to weld small round tubing joints with MIG, you are going to have lots of stops and starts and that is where problems arise.
Because of the extra skills, time and equipment investment required, it would probably be better to gas weld your aircraft project.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349638#349638http://www.matronip; -Matt Draronics.com/contribution" =======
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: Welding? |
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For aircraft use you want a lightweight set. I have been using the same old Smith aircraft set for over 35 years.I do use industrial, large size regulators though.
BB
On 17, Aug 2011, at 2:01 PM, Phil wrote:
[quote]A big thanks to all the welding gurus. I appreciate every single post; all the pics and videos and answers. Fascinating stuff.
I decided on the Victor Firepower Oxy/Acetylene kit and placed my order from WeldingSupply.com at what I believe are great prices (after much web surfing):
https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/browsecatalogs.pl
0384-2551 - FirePower Heavy/Medium Duty $149.38
WES317 - 520 tank to 510 reg $9.99
WES324 - 200 tank to 510 reg $9.99
WES61 - 300 tank to 510 reg $4.95
This will allow hooking up the CGA-510 reg to most of the various Acetylene tanks available. Now I just need to find tanks to rent in my area.
Phil H.
--- On Tue, 8/16/11, racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>
Subject: Re: Welding?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 10:56 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>
Stick welding and MIG is relatively easy and you can probably learn on your own trough practice before beginning a serious project. As a matter of fact, you might get much more out of a welding course if you already have experimented with the welding process. Of course, you may have to un-learn some mistakes. Reading helps, especially in diagnosing poor welds; but as they say: practice, practice and practice some more before working on anything important. Stick and MIG is kind of like walking a tightrope and juggling with one hand at the same time.
Gas welding adds another dimension. Got to push the ‘bubble’ around and occasionally feed rod – like walking the tightrope and juggling with two hands.
TIG welding adds a third dimension (foot pedal). Got to walk the tightrope, juggle with two hands and a foot and HOP across the tightrope. Seriously, you need all of your gas welding skills down before learning TIG. A trade school should work well to see if you really want to invest in the equipment.
MIG vs TIG
Another aspect is that MIG lays down welding wire rapidly. Too rapid for welding small thin 4130 tubing unless you know what you are dong. Often you can get a good looking weld bead but in reality the bead is just sitting on top with little penetration. MIG is great for stock car roll bars and general welding, is fast, requires little clean-up, is a lot of fun and requires much less skill than TIG. With MIG, I like to weave a bit to get as much heat into the joint as I dare to insure penetration. MIG (&TIG) also has the advantage of being able to join thick materials with thin (difficult with stick or gas welding). In trying to weld small round tubing joints with MIG, you are going to have lots of stops and starts and that is where problems arise.
Because of the extra skills, time and equipment investment required, it would probably be better to gas weld your aircraft project.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349638#349638http://www.matronip; -Matt Draronics.com/contribution" =======
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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ces308
Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Welding? |
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FYI....
I bought this mig welder from Harbor Freight this summer on sale for $179.00....the stand was $49.00 ...This welder welds beautiful ! You won't find anything this nice for this kind of money...tank and gages are extra...
Welds with gas or with the flux core wire....just change wire and power leads....I did add a 25' cord too....
just something to consider....
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru
N327CS
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject: Welding? |
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Chris- Nice knowing that brand does work. A couple of friends- years ago- bought the cheap Chinese angle grinders. They got 10 minutes out of them, never to run again. I have the Harbor Freight electronic helmet. Utterly reliable, and $39 on sale. The electronic helmet is great for MIG work. With the Chinese stuff, I guess you have to spec it out exactly for them to make it. otherwise, it will just look like the tool and not work like it.
Bill Sullivan
--- On Wed, 8/17/11, ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com> wrote:
[quote][b]
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roy.spangler(at)kirtland.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:31 am Post subject: Welding? |
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To all would be welders,
Under no circumstances judge a weld by its looks! One of the contributors suggested taking a class at a community college or tech school. By all means do so. As a former vocational educator I taught welding and some of the prettiest welds by students failed due to a lack of penetration. Welding is an art! Testing is important as your life just might depend on the integrity of your weld. Lots of information on the web about weld testing!
roy
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:47 PM, robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net (slyck(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
[quote] For aircraft use you want a lightweight set. I have been using the same old Smith aircraft set for over 35 years. I do use industrial, large size regulators though.
BB
On 17, Aug 2011, at 2:01 PM, Phil wrote:
| Quote: | A big thanks to all the welding gurus. I appreciate every single post; all the pics and videos and answers. Fascinating stuff.
I decided on the Victor Firepower Oxy/Acetylene kit and placed my order from WeldingSupply.com at what I believe are great prices (after much web surfing):
https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/browsecatalogs.pl
0384-2551 - FirePower Heavy/Medium Duty $149.38
WES317 - 520 tank to 510 reg $9.99
WES324 - 200 tank to 510 reg $9.99
WES61 - 300 tank to 510 reg $4.95
This will allow hooking up the CGA-510 reg to most of the various Acetylene tanks available. Now I just need to find tanks to rent in my area.
Phil H.
--- On Tue, 8/16/11, racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Welding?
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Tuesday, August 16, 2011, 10:56 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Stick welding and MIG is relatively easy and you can probably learn on your own trough practice before beginning a serious project. As a matter of fact, you might get much more out of a welding course if you already have experimented with the welding process. Of course, you may have to un-learn some mistakes. Reading helps, especially in diagnosing poor welds; but as they say: practice, practice and practice some more before working on anything important. Stick and MIG is kind of like walking a tightrope and juggling with one hand at the same time.
Gas welding adds another dimension. Got to push the ‘bubble’ around and occasionally feed rod – like walking the tightrope and juggling with two hands.
TIG welding adds a third dimension (foot pedal). Got to walk the tightrope, juggle with two hands and a foot and HOP across the tightrope. Seriously, you need all of your gas welding skills down before learning TIG. A trade school should work well to see if you really want to invest in the equipment.
MIG vs TIG
Another aspect is that MIG lays down welding wire rapidly. Too rapid for welding small thin 4130 tubing unless you know what you are dong. Often you can get a good looking weld bead but in reality the bead is just sitting on top with little penetration. MIG is great for stock car roll bars and general welding, is fast, requires little clean-up, is a lot of fun and requires much less skill than TIG. With MIG, I like to weave a bit to get as much heat into the joint as I dare to insure penetration. MIG (&TIG) also has the advantage of being able to join thick materials with thin (difficult with stick or gas welding). In trying to weld small round tubing joints with MIG, you are going to have lots of stops and starts and that is where problems arise.
Because of the extra skills, time and equipment investment required, it would probably be better to gas weld your aircraft project.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=349638#349638http://www.matronip; -Matt Draronics.com/contribution" =======
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ronlee
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Welding? |
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Do I ever agree with agree with the testing advice. I also have been a welder for most of my working life and I can guarantee that a pretty weld is not necessarily a strong weld, nor is a weld full of porosity any good. Test it by bending, twisting, hammering or what ever you have to do to break it. When you do break it look to see how well the weld penetrated into the base metal. it should pull some of the base metal out when it does break. A poor weld that looks pretty can also be brittle and break with little bending.
Any time you test for a certified welding job they will do all of the above.
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