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Pitot Static

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h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 654

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: Pitot Static

We are planning to install a heated pitot static.  The mast is 2 inches tall compared to the Europa supplied pitot which is 4.5 inches.  Will mounting the pitot closer to the wing present any problems?  



Thanks



Jim & Heather

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Pitot Static

Hi Jim,



The sensors do best far from the disturbed airflow of wings or fuse.

4 inches is marginal, two inches and change is probably trouble.



Ira

_________________
Ira N224XS

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: Pitot Static

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Jim,

 Were you having trouble with the single pitot head on your wings  readings?  Seemed OK when we flew, why not just follow suit.  We use  the Gretz mount here and that puts the heated Angus type tube about 5.5 inches  below which is out of the turbulent layer and if placed near the trailing edge  spar is nearly perfectly equal to the flow to the flight path.   If you place the tube at two inches I'm afraid that turbulence may give you some  poor readings.

  

 George Reed has the only Dynon Tube I've installed placed per their  instructions within 10 inches of the leading edge if memory serves.  As you  know the Dynon also has a "AOA" input and if I recall it was required to be at  least 6 inches below the wing which gave good A/S at cruise, adequate low speed  down to 70 but kind of fell off too slow starting at 60 Knots.  However the  current XS and MG wing positions using any tube seem to work well averaging  within about 3 knots at low speed and dead on at cruise.

  

 Regards,

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

EMAproducts(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: Pitot Static

I am just a lurker on this site, but have considerable experience on  location of pitot/ vanes etc below the wing .

 I manufacturer the RiteAngle series of AOA's, and vane location is  extremely important to get a good clean airflow, which also would indicate good  clean stable air into the pitot tube. My aerodynamic engineer with many years of  experience told me to never locate a vane less than 4 inches from an  airfoil.  Where we are using a vane we strive to be 13% of the chord below  the wing, which has worked on well over 100 different makes and models of  aircraft with no problem.  The only problems were with those who placed the  vane to close to the airflow where the airflow was still "following the curve"  of the airfoil~~I can think of two people who tried to out guess years of  experimenting and experience.  I agree 100% that 4" is marginal, especially  where the vane is located on the Europa ( on those I've flown anyway.)   Another factor is the actual airfoil being used and the size of the pitot  tube.  During tests for certification of one LSA our system was within 1  mph from stall to Vne of the aircraft,  I feel primairly due to using a  larger diameter pitot tube as the AOA didn't restrict the airflow into the tube,  also the shape of the end of the pitot makes a difference.  Put it far  enough below the wing & use a proven pitot tube.

 A different subject the Static source is as important as the  Pitot.  Follow Europa's instructions.

 Elbie Mendenhall     

  

  

  

  In a message dated 9/20/2011 12:07:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  europa-list(at)matronics.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Subject:    Re: Pitot Static

From: "rampil"    <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>

	


 [quote][b]

Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 102
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Pitot Static

Hi Bud (or anyone else who has an answer),



I read your post while looking for info on the Dynon AoA. I was thinking of installing this AoA, but their probe has just 2 holes - pitot and AoA - I'd then have to find another source for the static air - can you recall what George Reed did for static?



Thanks in advance.



Paul



XS Mono 383

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: Pitot Static

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Paul,

 I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft.  It hooks to  the normal A/S and Altimeter.  The Dynon probe is added to the other wing  normally and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa.  I make a 5 inch access hole and  build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10  inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for  its AOA function.  Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit  static valve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and  50 feet at all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft.

  

 Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is.  

  

 Regards,

 Bud

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 102
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Pitot Static

Thanks Bud, useful info.



My wings are closed ... do you think the Dynon probe could be retro-fitted to the stbd wing - or indeed have you ever done that?



Thanks in advance,



Paul

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: Pitot Static

Paul-



I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe.  It mounts a little more toward the leading edge as I recall.  I think I mounted mine just behind the spar.  If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole in your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount.  I backed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID.  I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also.  The four tubes share a length of tubing to the wing root.  I actually had to change the tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in only an hour or so.  I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also.  Works fine.  I have photos of it all if you need them.



Jim Puglise

N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils 



From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



      <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Paul,

 I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft.  It hooks to  the normal A/S and Altimeter.  The Dynon probe is added to the other wing  normally and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa.  I make a 5 inch access hole and  build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10  inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for  its AOA function.  Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit  static valve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and  50 feet at all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft.

  

 Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is.  

  

 Regards,

 Bud

  

  

 [quote]   ---

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:12 am Post subject: Pitot Static

Hi All,

I'm thinking about adding Angle of Attack function to my Dynon D10a unit. This requires the Dynon aoa pitot to be installed on my completed wing. I think that could be done easily by mounting the pitot on the bellcrank access cover. Has anyone done this successfully?

thanks, Kevin

Mono 914, 400hrs

On Mar 31, 2012, at 1:09 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:



[quote]Paul-



I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe.  It mounts a little more toward the leading edge as I recall.  I think I mounted mine just behind the spar.  If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole in your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount.  I backed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID.  I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also.  The four tubes share a length of tubing to the wing root.  I actually had to change the tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in only an hour or so.  I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also.  Works fine.  I have photos of it all if you need them.



Jim Puglise

N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils 



From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



      <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Paul,

 I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft.  It hooks to  the normal A/S and Altimeter.  The Dynon probe is added to the other wing  normally and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa.  I make a 5 inch access hole and  build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10  inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for  its AOA function.  Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit  static valve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and  50 feet at all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft.

  

 Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is.  

  

 Regards,

 Bud

  

  

 [quote]   ---

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: Pitot Static

Kevin-



Given the length and size of the Gretz fixture, that would be a lot of stress on a small area surrounding the access cover.  You might be able to reinforce around it, but in my install, I used 1/16 plywood and two layers of BID about 12 inches square.



Jim Puglise

N283JL  



From: "klinefelter kevin" <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:08:37 PM

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static



Hi All,

I'm thinking about adding Angle of Attack function to my Dynon D10a unit. This requires the Dynon aoa pitot to be installed on my completed wing. I think that could be done easily by mounting the pitot on the bellcrank access cover. Has anyone done this successfully?

thanks, Kevin

Mono 914, 400hrs

On Mar 31, 2012, at 1:09 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:



[quote]Paul-



I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe.  It mounts a little more toward the leading edge as I recall.  I think I mounted mine just behind the spar.  If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole in your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount.  I backed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID.  I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also.  The four tubes share a length of tubing to the wing root.  I actually had to change the tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in only an hour or so.  I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also.  Works fine.  I have photos of it all if you need them.



Jim Puglise

N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils 



From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



      <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Paul,

 I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft.  It hooks to  the normal A/S and Altimeter.  The Dynon probe is added to the other wing  normally and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa.  I make a 5 inch access hole and  build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10  inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for  its AOA function.  Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit  static valve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and  50 feet at all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft.

  

 Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is.  

  

 Regards,

 Bud

  

  

 [quote]   ---

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject: Pitot Static

Hi Jim,

Do you think that mounting location will work well for the Dynon AOA?

Is yours working well? In other words, is this worth doing?

Thanks, Kevin

Mono 914, 400hrs



On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:47 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:



[quote]Kevin-



Given the length and size of the Gretz fixture, that would be a lot of stress on a small area surrounding the access cover.  You might be able to reinforce around it, but in my install, I used 1/16 plywood and two layers of BID about 12 inches square.



Jim Puglise

N283JL  



From: "klinefelter kevin" <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com (klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com)>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:08:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



Hi All,

I'm thinking about adding Angle of Attack function to my Dynon D10a unit. This requires the Dynon aoa pitot to be installed on my completed wing. I think that could be done easily by mounting the pitot on the bellcrank access cover. Has anyone done this successfully?

thanks, Kevin

Mono 914, 400hrs

On Mar 31, 2012, at 1:09 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:



[quote]Paul-



I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe.  It mounts a little more toward the leading edge as I recall.  I think I mounted mine just behind the spar.  If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole in your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount.  I backed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID.  I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also.  The four tubes share a length of tubing to the wing root.  I actually had to change the tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in only an hour or so.  I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also.  Works fine.  I have photos of it all if you need them.



Jim Puglise

N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils 



From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



      <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Paul,

 I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft.  It hooks to  the normal A/S and Altimeter.  The Dynon probe is added to the other wing  normally and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa.  I make a 5 inch access hole and  build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10  inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for  its AOA function.  Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit  static valve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and  50 feet at all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft.

  

 Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is.  

  

 Regards,

 Bud

  

  

 [quote]   ---

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 808

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: Pitot Static

Hi Kevin 

 	I have a Dynon D10A and want to fool with the AOA. I made a Home Grown probe that looks like it came from the Europa Factory (third leg) I haven't flown with it yet. Until I get some time on the bird, I didn't want to try a new position for the static and pitot. Thus my plan is to leave everything in the factory position including the AOA. I will try calibrating and see if the AOA gives any meaningful information. 

 	I made provisions that will allow me to easily move everything (Pitot, Static and AOA) to the front cover. Look through all the pics as I describe everything and my thinking in detail. 

 	http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86923 

 	See: 

 	Homegrown AOA for Dynon D-10A. Plan "A", "B" and now "C / D". 

 	The "Taco" approach as I describe to making the inside cover flange for the front cover will work just as easy on completed wings. Since your top panels are already bonded on, making 3 aluminium tubes permanently mounted would be difficult, but I think with not too much effort you could run Tygon tubing forward. Find someone with small arms to help out! Run by Bud if it would be OK to drill a hole or holes through spar to run the tubing up forward. 

 	Good Luck 

 	Ron Parigoris    [quote][b]

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: Pitot Static

A question for anyone …….

 

Does the Europa stall warner wing inlet have any use in Angle of Attack instrumentation?

 

JR(Bob) Gowing Kit 328 in NSW, Oz

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us

Sent: Saturday, 14 April 2012 11:39 AM

To: Europa

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static

 

Hi Kevin

I have a Dynon D10A and want to fool with the AOA. I made a Home Grown probe that looks like it came from the Europa Factory (third leg) I haven't flown with it yet. Until I get some time on the bird, I didn't want to try a new position for the static and pitot. Thus my plan is to leave everything in the factory position including the AOA. I will try calibrating and see if the AOA gives any meaningful information.

I made provisions that will allow me to easily move everything (Pitot, Static and AOA) to the front cover. Look through all the pics as I describe everything and my thinking in detail.

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86923

See:

Homegrown AOA for Dynon D-10A. Plan "A", "B" and now "C / D".

The "Taco" approach as I describe to making the inside cover flange for the front cover will work just as easy on completed wings. Since your top panels are already bonded on, making 3 aluminium tubes permanently mounted would be difficult, but I think with not too much effort you could run Tygon tubing forward. Find someone with small arms to help out! Run by Bud if it would be OK to drill a hole or holes through spar to run the tubing up forward.

Good Luck

Ron Parigoris 	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
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No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / 04/11/12

  [quote][b]

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:29 am Post subject: Pitot Static

Kevin-



Will give you a better answer later in the day.  I want to go to the airport and look at it.  I am using my Dynon ASI only at this time.  The ASA is fine.  To calibrate the AOA, you need to do at least 3 stalls and I am still busy trying to get my overheating problems straightened out.  I'll calibrate it after that.  I don't find that flying without a stall warning is a problem.  As long as you watch your speeds in the pattern, everything works fine. 



Will get you an answer later in the day.



Jim  



From: "klinefelter kevin" <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:47:17 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



Hi Jim,

Do you think that mounting location will work well for the Dynon AOA?

Is yours working well? In other words, is this worth doing?

Thanks, Kevin

Mono 914, 400hrs



On Apr 13, 2012, at 2:47 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:



[quote]Kevin-



Given the length and size of the Gretz fixture, that would be a lot of stress on a small area surrounding the access cover.  You might be able to reinforce around it, but in my install, I used 1/16 plywood and two layers of BID about 12 inches square.



Jim Puglise

N283JL  



From: "klinefelter kevin" <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com (klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com)>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:08:37 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



Hi All,

I'm thinking about adding Angle of Attack function to my Dynon D10a unit. This requires the Dynon aoa pitot to be installed on my completed wing. I think that could be done easily by mounting the pitot on the bellcrank access cover. Has anyone done this successfully?

thanks, Kevin

Mono 914, 400hrs

On Mar 31, 2012, at 1:09 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:



[quote]Paul-



I mounted my Dynon on the same wing as the Europa probe.  It mounts a little more toward the leading edge as I recall.  I think I mounted mine just behind the spar.  If you have closed your wings, you would need to put a hole in your skin to mount it, and do as Bud said and use the Gretz mount.  I backed my Gretz mount with 1/16 plywood and BID.  I put them in the same wing to avoid putting a run of irrigation tubing in the other wing also.  The four tubes share a length of tubing to the wing root.  I actually had to change the tubing and was able to get to it through the inspection port and do it in only an hour or so.  I used a "T" connector to use the Europa static port for the Dynon also.  Works fine.  I have photos of it all if you need them.



Jim Puglise

N283JL -- 15 hrs and fighting cooling devils 



From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:39:28 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static



      <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Paul,

 I always put the standard pitot / static on my aircraft.  It hooks to  the normal A/S and Altimeter.  The Dynon probe is added to the other wing  normally and feeds the Dynon pitot/aoa.  I make a 5 inch access hole and  build in a flange then mount the probe and its Gretz mount to the wing about 10  inches back from the leading edge as that is what Dynon recommends I believe for  its AOA function.  Should icing be a consideration, I mount a cockpit  static valve to use the cockpit air which is accurate to about 2 knots and  50 feet at all speeds and altitudes to 10,000 ft.

  

 Do not mount the Dynon where the standard pitot is.  

  

 Regards,

 Bud

  

  

 [quote]   ---

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:37 am Post subject: Pitot Static

Hi Bob,



  > A question for anyone …….

  >

  > Does the Europa stall warner wing inlet have any use in Angle of 

Attack instrumentation?

  >



I don't think so. The pressure signal provided is designed to be very 

alinear: a small positive pressure (reference static) at most angles of 

attack, then a large negative pressure (reference static) near the stall 

angle. The purpose is to operate a switch.

An AoA instrument using the signal would probably become just a stall 

warner too.



I actually put a stall warning probe in the other wing with the 

intention of using it for an angle of attack measurement some time in 

the future. The orifice is at 4% of chord or so on the top surface.



I had forgotten what the plans were exactly but I think I have 

documented now what my thoughts may have been. See the attachment.



Jan de Jong

AoA.txt

Description:

Download

Filename:

AoA.txt

Filesize:

3.02 KB

Downloaded:

473 Time(s)

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: Pitot Static

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  JR,

 No the stall warner is mounted so as to give a specific pressure near the  max angle of attack.  It is just a probe hole for a low pressure  switch.  

 Basically, go fast and the pressure is high.  slow down and finally  the low head pressure at the leading edge finally allows the switch to close  lighting the light or horn as desired.

  

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly

 Tech Support

Custom Flight Creations, Inc.

www.customflightcreations.com

(813)  653-4989

 [quote]   ---

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:59 am Post subject: Pitot Static

Dear Bud Yerly

Thank you very much for your explanation on stall warning.

JR Gowing in OZ Kit 327

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly

Sent: Monday, 16 April 2012 12:06 AM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Pitot Static

 

JR,



No the stall warner is mounted so as to give a specific pressure near the max angle of attack.  It is just a probe hole for a low pressure switch.  



Basically, go fast and the pressure is high.  slow down and finally the low head pressure at the leading edge finally allows the switch to close lighting the light or horn as desired.



 



Regards,



Bud Yerly



Tech Support

Custom Flight Creations, Inc.

www.customflightcreations.com

(813) 653-4989

[quote]

---

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