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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Travis,,

My BRS is just like yours and located just like yours.

Thom



On Sep 19, 2011, at 7:31 PM, "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thom,

 Do you have any pix of the front of your baffle installation?  Where is your BRS rocket mounted?



 I kinda figured the spark plug wires should not be run thru the opening I just havent gotten around to moving them yet, but I will probably do that first.  Still thinking I should probably just call Jabiru and buy some new ramair ducts as mine seem a little on the small side.



 Travis Bennett





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352720#352720

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

tkben002

Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

I called Jabiru US to order some new jets so I can get my EGTâ€™s down.  I was told that I would need about a 270 main jet but that probably would not make that much of a difference anyway.  He then began to tell me that in order to solve my problem I would have to get rid of the warp drive prop and buy something made of wood with a bigger chord.  He told me that the I could probably take off at 2400 rpms and it would be the same power since the warp drive prop is so inefficient and cannot handle the full 80 hp of the Jabiru.  I thought I had read before that there are many Titan Tornado owners with the Jabiru and warp drive props and that they got good performance.  Anybody have any other suggestions?



Travis Bennett

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Travis,

Did you tell them it is a pusher, which makes a big difference? 



  

There are three issues with Warp Drive props, one of which is applicable only with tractor installations. 



  

1) The WD prop does not provide good airflow close to the hub which tractor installations desperately need, and even tends to block airflow to the duct inlets on such a narrow engine, like Jabirus. I don't see how this matters much on a pusher, once you get some airspeed. Taxiing may be a problem but Jabiru recommends keeping ground operating time to a minimum anyway.

  

2) The second issue could be that the WD prop "might" exceed the Moment of Intertia limit on Jabiru engines. I say might because I don't know either the limit or the MOI of WD prop.

  



3) Third issue is rotational vibration, which wood props absorb adequately and WD "may" not.

  



There is a Titan dealer (Motion Aero) in Utah who has a lot of experience with both 2200 and 3300 and WD props on Titan Tornados. They would be a very good source for information on WD on jabiru engines in pushers.

  



Thom in Buffalo

  



On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:22 PM, tkben002 <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote]  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "tkben002" <tkben002(at)bellsouth.net (tkben002(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 I called Jabiru US to order some new jets so I can get my EGT’s down.  I was told that I would need about a 270 main jet but that probably would not make that much of a difference anyway.  He then began to tell me that in order to solve my problem I would have to get rid of the warp drive prop and buy something made of wood with a bigger chord.  He told me that the I could probably take off at 2400 rpms and it would be the same power since the warp drive prop is so inefficient and cannot handle the full 80 hp of the Jabiru.  I thought I had read before that there are many Titan Tornado owners with the Jabiru and warp drive props and that they got good performance.  Anybody have any other suggestions?

   

 Travis Bennett

 

 

 

 

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

tkben002

Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

I called Jabiru Pacific and got some advice that seems pretty credible to me.  He told me to take the balance tube that goes from the carby to inside the air filter and cut it down to 2 or 3 inches and turn it into a static port by drilling 4 holes in the tube 90 degrees apart from each other.  Then to fly the plane and test for the correct egts for climb and cruise.  Then if jetting is needed to go from there.  I am not sure what difference there is from making it a static port vs. being inside the air filter but I guess it is worth a shot.



Travis Bennett

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

...Thom, 

Do you have any pix of the front of your baffle installation? Where is your BRS rocket mounted? ...



I do now. See attached photo.



Went to the hangar today to replace the Bing jet needle with the Jabiru jet needle for the 2200. It made a world of difference. My cruise EGTs with the Bing needle were around 1225 and it topped 1350 on WOT climb, more or less the opposite of what they should be. I swapped needles and changed main and needle jets to the closest I had to what Jabiru recommends for this needle on a solid lifter 2200.



With 255 main jet (235 recommended) and 280 needle jet (as recommended) and Jabiru needle, I get EGT of 1320-1330 at all cruise rpms below 2900. At 2900 and above the EGT starts dropping. During climb, I can get to over 500' AGL at WOT before the EGT starts climbing above 1250 and into the 1325 range. Lowering the nose to raise the airspeed a little or backing off the throttle a bit gets the EGTs back down to correct range. I'm perfectly content with the cruise EGT but might go to a bit larger main jet to reduce the climb EGT. As a side benefit, the climb RPM went up about 25 rpm and climb rate was up to 1200 fpm from 1100 before.

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thanks Thom ! 



A picture is worth a thousand words ! Waiting for the weather to break to try out the deflectors ...I''ll let you know what happens..

chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru     A-2200   225.0

N327CS

tkben002

Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thanks Thom, good pic of the baffles.  I will try to make something similar for mine.  I also already have close to the same jets I just need the needle, I will go ahead and order one I think, and I will make sure I call Jabiru Pacific for it.



Travis Bennett

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom,Travis...



I try the deflectors on the right side this morning and it did drop the temp on that side from 320 to 296.....then this afternoon it did the other side and WOW ! I changed the location and angle and HOLY COW ! This morning that side was running 320 and when I flew it 30 minutes ago it was 234    and the right side was still around 290...(289 actually).



Now I will make one to match the last one I made !  



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru  A-2200

N327CS

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom,Travis...



I try the deflectors on the right side this morning and it did drop the temp on that side from 320 to 296.....then this afternoon it did the other side and WOW ! I changed the location and angle and HOLY COW ! This morning that side was running 320 and when I flew it 30 minutes ago it was 234    and the right side was still around 290...(289 actually).



Now I will make one to match the last one I made !  



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru  A-2200

N327CS

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Chris,

Glad to hear they helped so much!



Thom

(sent from iPhone 4)



On Sep 22, 2011, at 6:12 PM, "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Thom,Travis...

 

 I try the deflectors on the right side this morning and it did drop the temp on that side from 320 to 296.....then this afternoon it did the other side and WOW ! I changed the location and angle and HOLY COW ! This morning that side was running 320 and when I flew it 30 minutes ago it was 234    and the right side was still around 290...(289 actually).

 

 Now I will make one to match the last one I made !  

 

 chris ambrose

 M3X/Jabiru  A-2200

 N327CS

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352990#352990

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

tkben002

Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Location: Alexandria, LA

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Alright Chris, this thread would not be complete withouth pix and I like pix, so make sure you take some and show em.



How many baffles did you make per side?  Was it a front fence, an upper deflector and and rear one?  I will be making mine this weekend and I plan on only doing the front fence first and going from there.



Travis Bennett

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Travis...



here are some pictures for you....the scoop with the rivits on a steeper angle is the way you want to do it...at least 45*....the first  one ended up being less than that and although it worked,it didn't work as well as the second one I did...also it's aimed toward the front of center...



Take a look and I'll try and answer your questions...I haven't put the ones in the front yet...



chris ambrose

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Chris,



In your photo, is your EIS reading 1326 and 1128 EGTs?

If so, that is quite a spread. Are they on opposite sides? If so, you may be able to get a better balance by tilting the carb bottom (float bowl) about 10 or more degrees toward the lean side, instead of level.



There is an airflow divider in the intake, oriented vertically, that smoothes the fuel/air flow before the fuel is completely atomized. However, it also splits the flow somewhat. The fuel comes into the venturi from the bottom and the airflow tends to spiral somewhat so one side frequently gets a richer mixture than the other side. According to Pete Krotje, this can be offset by tilting the float bowl toward the lean side.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom...



I did that and it did help some...the egt's are on 3 & 4 respectively with 4 having the lowest compression of the 3...(65#)....in your opinion would that make it lower??  This winter I am planning on cleaning that cylinder up and re ring it...2&4 were the 2 cylinders that got hot during that mess I went through last winter when I had the engine stoppage problem..



chris ambrose

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Chris,

Lower compression means lower power but not by much. I doubt that in itself would mean lower EGT. It is possible you have a valve issue or something else. I can't remember if your engine is a solid lifter or hydraulic lifter. If solid, do you adjust them at every oil change? Do you check the head bolt torque then too? Just thinking out loud.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom...



Every 50 hrs...and the clearances have been right on...in fact the last time was 20 hrs ago....and I do think there is some leakage with the valves on that cylinder. Maybe I'll pull that head and try lapping the valves...



chris ambrose

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:11 am Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Chris,

The photo of your forward deflector looks to me like it goes down all the way to the head fins. If that is the case, then you are probably blocking air flow to the aft cylinders. Since your two CHT sensors are on the front cylinders (3 & 4) you should move them to 1 & 2 temporarily to check their temps.  Once you get them all in fairly close to each other, then it doesn't much matter which ones you monitor thereafter. 

  

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:52 PM, ces308 <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>

   

 Thom...

 

 Every 50 hrs...and the clearances have been right on...in fact the last time was 20 hrs ago....and I do think there is some leakage with the valves on that cylinder. Maybe I'll pull that head and try lapping the valves...

   

 chris ambrose

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353014#353014

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom...



I have  the cht's  on 1 & 2 and the egt's on the front cylinders...I wish I had the 4 cylinder one....  ;(...   I know it's kind of confusing... front is back and left is right....lol   



chris ambrose

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:19 pm Post subject: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Chris,



My EIS is a very old model. When I bought the SS, all four cylinders

had CHTs but no EGTs. Since all four were close to each other and way

below the too hot zone, I swapped one of the CHT sensors for an EGT

(#4, right front on pusher). I now plan to swap out the CHT sensor of

#3 for a second EGT so I can have two of each. EGTs on front and CHTs

on aft cylinders.



The important thing is for you to know that all four CHTs are roughly

the same and well in the green. Once you get your baffles and

deflectors trimmed and positioned to achieve that, it is probably not

all that important to monitor all of them simultaneously. At least

that is the way I'm going to do mine.



Thom



On Sep 23, 2011, at 2:43 PM, "ces308" <ces308(at)ldaco.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thom...



 I have  the cht's  on 1 & 2 and the egt's on the front cylinders...I wish I had the 4 cylinder one....  ;(...   I know it's kind of confusing... front is back and left is right....lol



 chris ambrose





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353055#353055

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners

Thom-all...



It's just too much info anyway....heck ,my Skyhawk has an oil press and temp,of which really tells you next to nothing and an egt that I don't trust anyway  ! lol  



chris ambrose

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