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Heavy wing

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rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great, with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled out):

  Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem. 
  Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an issue with the leg and wheel fairings
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine, since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).  
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would make a difference.  It did not.
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and balanced fuel tanks).  
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy left wing.  
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).  I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60 hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I should be able to figure out what it is.

   

Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

 

-Rob 



-- 



Rob Kochman

 RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



  [quote][b]

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

This may have no merit…..so…..

 

Wing tip?  I did not see anything about checking the wingtip and their position and possible effect.  I spent a lot of time rebuilding mine because they did not line up with my Ailerons and were not the same on both sides.  If I remember right , the tips have a little bit of a dihedral to them and being way out there on the wing, they could have a big effect if they were different.

 

Just a wag….

 

 

Good luck, don’t let the #$%$ win…….or just go ugly early and put the wedge on….

 

Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kochman

Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:13 PM

To: rv10-list

Subject: Heavy wing



 

Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great, with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled out):

Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem. 
Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an issue with the leg and wheel fairings
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine, since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would make a difference.  It did not.
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and balanced fuel tanks).
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy left wing.
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).

I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60 hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I should be able to figure out what it is.



 



Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.



 



-Rob 

-- 



Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011



Woodinville, WA



http://kochman.net/N819K



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  [quote][b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Heavy wing

I know you said you tried everything in Van's 'help' document, but....



In my case it was the left wing heavy in flight, and I could see the ailerons deflected, too.



I moved the left aileron outboard attachment point lower by about 1/32" (barely noticeable) and it took out 90% of the heaviness. e.g., it is very sensitive to this. 



Bob

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

As already mentioned, check the aileron height (compare left/right at inboard and outboard attach points using a straight edge running aft off the wing).  A very small difference between aileron heights will make a big difference – and just how heavy the wing is will be dependent on speed.  I found this problem in several heavy wing RVs, including my RV-8A.  Moving the offending attachment point completely solve my problem on the 8A.

 

Other things to look at:

<![if !supportLists]>-          <![endif]>Do not assume that if the ailerons (in neutral position) are even with the flaps (in reflex position) that they are rigged correctly as there may be a slight twist in the flap.  Put the flaps in the reflex position, clamp one aileron to the flap, then compare using a straight edge running aft off the wing the two ailerons deflection.  If there is a difference, adjust the push rods until they are exactly the same. 

<![if !supportLists]>-          <![endif]>Do the same straight edge measurement on the flaps to compare.  If you do have a slight twist in a flap, I would expect that you can compensate for it if the ailerons are symmetrically rigged as they provide the higher moment arm.

<![if !supportLists]>-          <![endif]>Once you have the ailerons at the same deflection, then look at the wingtips.  When building the wingtips you can move the wingtip tailing edge up or down a good quarter of an inch when fitting the aft rib.

 

Of note, the easy tone in Van’s instructions on rigging the aircraft never seemed right for me.  After chasing my tail on a heavy wing I went back to basics as discussed above and found the small difference in aileron mount height.  Rigging is a big deal – and something that few will get right on the first attempt.



Carl

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kochman

Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 3:13 PM

To: rv10-list

Subject: Heavy wing



 

Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great, with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled out):

Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem. 
Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an issue with the leg and wheel fairings
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine, since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would make a difference.  It did not.
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and balanced fuel tanks).
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy left wing.
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).

I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60 hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I should be able to figure out what it is.



 



Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.



 



-Rob 

-- 



Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011



Woodinville, WA



http://kochman.net/N819K



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   [quote][b]

n520tx(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 17:20 -0500, Carl Froehlich wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Moving the offending attachment point 


	


How does one "move the attach point"? The ailerons are attached to a

powder coated bracket that attaches at the pivot point of bracket

riveted to the spar - I just looked at my wings in the cradle and tried

to imagine how this would  be done. Are you talking about elongating the

holes in that bracket to allow the aileron to shift up or down relative

to that pivot point ?



A photo with some arrows to point things out would go a long way.



I'm not disagreeing, just trying to visualize how you did this.



--Ron

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:31 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

I think Matt elongated the hole on his -8 with success. I believe he was surprised at how very small the hole modification required. One may want to check the recent archives or throw the question out to Matt.



Robin

--

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:13 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

On the 8A I got the brackets from Van's that don't have holes and drilled

holes slightly offset from center.  I don't know if these "no hole" brackets

are available for the 10.  I've seen others elongate the holes the small

amount needed (I understand this was the advice the person received from

Van's but that is second hand).  Another approach is to take the current

brackets and weld the holes shut, grind the weld flat and then re-drill. 



If the aileron height is off, you typically only need to adjust one bracket

as the fix.



Carl



--

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

I am sure you probably checked this but is your rudder  neutral with the heavy wing.  Does the heavyness change as you step on one  side or the other?

  

 Gary Specketer

  



  From: Rob Kochman (rv10rob(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 3:12 PM

 To: rv10-list (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Heavy wing

 



 Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great,  with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've  tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for  suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled  out):

    Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep    the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower    speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem.     
Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an    issue with the leg and wheel fairings    
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank    templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine,    since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).    
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of    curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would    make a difference.  It did not.    
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and    balanced fuel tanks).    
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the    ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When    I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the    right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy    left wing.    
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the    rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.    
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).   I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several  people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a  wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60  hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says  that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm  usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just  admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically  something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I  should be able to figure out what it is.

  

 Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

  

 -Rob 

 

-- 



 Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



[quote]



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[b]

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

When I started flying mine I had a heavy wing. During phase 1 I was always alone, of course.  Right rudder obviously helps and putting a right seater helps too.  I remember reading a lot of these on the FAQ's on vans site. You might want to look over these.  They sell the brackets undrilled and recommend elongating the originals first. 

Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 11, 2011, at 13:12, Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com (rv10rob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great, with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled out):

  Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem. 
  Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an issue with the leg and wheel fairings
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine, since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).  
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would make a difference.  It did not.
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and balanced fuel tanks).  
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy left wing.  
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).  I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60 hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I should be able to figure out what it is.

   

Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

 

-Rob 



-- 



Rob Kochman

 RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Heavy wing

re: moving the aileron down.

Yes, I elongated the holes in the steel bracket.

Vans sells undrilled brackets for exactly this purpose. Unfortunately, not for the -10. But they say the ones for the -7 or -8 '...can be made to work...'.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

I have seen several RV7s that the stock right aileron outer bracket made 

that aileron 1/8-1/4" high..like Vans punched holes are off. I would 

think builder error, except it is common when you start looking for it. 

Doesn't take much elongation, and you can do say 1/16th on wing, 1/16th" 

on bracket.



On 11/11/2011 7:15 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 re: moving the aileron down.

 Yes, I elongated the holes in the steel bracket.

 Vans sells undrilled brackets for exactly this purpose. Unfortunately, not for the -10. But they say the ones for the -7 or -8 '...can be made to work...'.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=357599#357599

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

arplnplt(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:33 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

I agree with Gary.Try a rudder trim block if you don't have rudder trim.  I thought I had a heavy wing until I played with my rudder trim after the first few flights.  



 David Leikam

RV10

Flying



 

 

On Nov 11, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary Specketer wrote:

[quote]     I am sure you probably checked this but is your rudder  neutral with the heavy wing.  Does the heavyness change as you step on one  side or the other?

  

 Gary Specketer

  



  From: Rob Kochman (rv10rob(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 3:12 PM

 To: rv10-list (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Heavy wing

 



 Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great,  with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've  tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for  suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled  out):

    Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep    the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower    speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem.     
Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an    issue with the leg and wheel fairings    
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank    templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine,    since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).    
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of    curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would    make a difference.  It did not.    
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and    balanced fuel tanks).    
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the    ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When    I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the    right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy    left wing.    
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the    rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.    
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).   I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several  people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a  wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60  hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says  that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm  usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just  admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically  something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I  should be able to figure out what it is.

  

 Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

  

 -Rob 

 

-- 



 Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



 	  Quote: 	
		  



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href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

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[b]

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:09 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

Thanks, guys.  It seems like my wing tips are even, and I've verified that the rudder is correct (i.e. ball is centered) when noting the heavy wing.

 

I checked that the ailerons are mounted on the wing evenly, but I'll check more closely.  Not sure I would have noticed a 1/32" difference, and it sounds like such a little difference might actually matter.

  

Thanks again, and I'll report back.

 

-Rob

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:27 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com (arplnplt(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I agree with Gary. Try a rudder trim block if you don't have rudder trim.  I thought I had a heavy wing until I played with my rudder trim after the first few flights.  



   David Leikam

RV10

Flying







 

 

On Nov 11, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary Specketer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		       I am sure you probably checked this but is your rudder  neutral with the heavy wing.  Does the heavyness change as you step on one  side or the other?

  

 Gary Specketer

  



  From: Rob Kochman (rv10rob(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 3:12 PM

 To: rv10-list (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Heavy wing

 



 

Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great,  with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've  tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for  suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled  out):

    Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep    the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower    speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem.     
Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an    issue with the leg and wheel fairings    
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank    templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine,    since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).    
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of    curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would    make a difference.  It did not.    
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and    balanced fuel tanks).    
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the    ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When    I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the    right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy    left wing.    
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the    rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.    
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).   I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several  people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a  wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60  hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says  that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm  usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just  admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically  something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I  should be able to figure out what it is.

  

 Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

  

 -Rob 

 

-- 



 Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



  [quote][b]

coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

This may have been mentioned already, but on the RV-6 the solution was to squeeze, ever so slightly, the trailing edge of the aileron or tap it a little to make the trailing end more square.  It worked like a champ!  There might be some comments in the RV-6 archives.



Marcus

do not archive

On Nov 12, 2011, at 1:05 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:

Thanks, guys.  It seems like my wing tips are even, and I've verified that the rudder is correct (i.e. ball is centered) when noting the heavy wing.

 

I checked that the ailerons are mounted on the wing evenly, but I'll check more closely.  Not sure I would have noticed a 1/32" difference, and it sounds like such a little difference might actually matter.

  

Thanks again, and I'll report back.

 

-Rob

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:27 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com (arplnplt(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I agree with Gary. Try a rudder trim block if you don't have rudder trim.  I thought I had a heavy wing until I played with my rudder trim after the first few flights.  



   David Leikam

RV10

Flying







 

 

On Nov 11, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary Specketer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		       I am sure you probably checked this but is your rudder  neutral with the heavy wing.  Does the heavyness change as you step on one  side or the other?

  

 Gary Specketer

  



  From: Rob Kochman (rv10rob(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 3:12 PM

 To: rv10-list (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Heavy wing

 



 

Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything is great,  with the exception of a significantly heavy right wing. I feel like I've  tried just about everything, but still can't get it figured out, so looking for  suggestions from the group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled  out):

    Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left trim to keep    the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing is less noticeable at slower    speeds, so it's definitely an aerodynamic problem.     
Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new issue and not an    issue with the leg and wheel fairings    
Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron bellcrank    templates). I tried adjusting one side a little, but as you can imagine,    since the ailerons are interconnected, it didn't make a difference).    
Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of    curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it would    make a difference.  It did not.    
Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the cabin and    balanced fuel tanks).    
Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level, the    ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex position).  When    I let go of the stick, with neutral trim, the left aileron goes down and the    right up slightly (maybe 1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy    left wing.    
I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with respect to the    rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing" document says this can cause issues.    
Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're quickbuilds).   I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked to several  people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me, other than to put a  wedge under the left aileron to balance it out (which I've had on there for 60  hours or so).  N410RV has a trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says  that Van's personal RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm  usually pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge is just  admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right wing (specifically  something is deflecting the left aileron down and the right aileron up), and I  should be able to figure out what it is.

  

 Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

  

 -Rob 

 

-- 



 Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c





href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List



href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	






_blank">www.aeroelectric.com



.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


-- 

Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



  [quote]

[b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

That only works on RVs that have the trailing edge as a bent piece of 

aluminum. The -10 ailerons are two sheets of aluminum double flush 

riveted with an extrusion between them(except the quick builds Manila 

doesn't do double flush, grrr)



On 11/13/2011 1:30 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   This may have been mentioned already, but on the RV-6 the solution was 

 to squeeze, ever so slightly, the trailing edge of the aileron or tap 

 it a little to make the trailing end more square.  It worked like a 

 champ!  There might be some comments in the RV-6 archives.



 Marcus



 do not archive

 On Nov 12, 2011, at 1:05 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:



 Thanks, guys.  It seems like my wing tips are even, and I've verified 

 that the rudder is correct (i.e. ball is centered) when noting the 

 heavy wing.

 I checked that the ailerons are mounted on the wing evenly, but I'll 

 check more closely.  Not sure I would have noticed a 1/32" difference, 

 and it sounds like such a little difference might actually matter.

 Thanks again, and I'll report back.

 -Rob



 On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:27 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com 

 <mailto:arplnplt(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



     I agree with Gary.

     Try a rudder trim block if you don't have rudder trim.  I thought

     I had a heavy wing until I played with my rudder trim after the

     first few flights.



     David Leikam

     RV10

     Flying

     On Nov 11, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary Specketer wrote:



>     I am sure you probably checked this but is your rudder neutral

>     with the heavy wing.  Does the heavyness change as you step on

>     one side or the other?

>     Gary Specketer

>

>     *From:* Rob Kochman <mailto:rv10rob(at)gmail.com>

>     *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2011 3:12 PM

>     *To:* rv10-list <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

>     *Subject:* Heavy wing

>

>     Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything

>     is great, with the exception of a significantly heavy right

>     wing. I feel like I've tried just about everything, but still

>     can't get it figured out, so looking for suggestions from the

>     group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled out):

>

>       * Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left

>         trim to keep the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing

>         is less noticeable at slower speeds, so it's definitely an

>         aerodynamic problem.

>       * Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new

>         issue and not an issue with the leg and wheel fairings

>       * Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron

>         bellcrank templates). I tried adjusting one side a little,

>         but as you can imagine, since the ailerons are

>         interconnected, it didn't make a difference).

>       * Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of

>         curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it

>         would make a difference.  It did not.

>       * Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the

>         cabin and balanced fuel tanks).

>       * Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level,

>         the ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex

>         position). *When I let go of the stick, with neutral trim,

>         the left aileron goes down and the right up slightly (maybe

>         1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy left wing.*

>       * I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with

>         respect to the rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing"

>         document says this can cause issues.

>       * Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're

>         quickbuilds).

>

>     I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked

>     to several people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me,

>     other than to put a wedge under the left aileron to balance it

>     out (which I've had on there for 60 hours or so).  N410RV has a

>     trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says that Van's personal

>     RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm usually

>     pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge

>     is just admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right

>     wing (specifically something is deflecting the left aileron down

>     and the right aileron up), and I should be able to figure out

>     what it is.

>     Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

>     -Rob

>

>     -- 

>     Rob Kochman

>     RV-10 Flying since March 2011

>     Woodinville, WA

>     http://kochman.net/N819K

>

>     *

>

>     href="http://www.aeroelectric.com  <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>">www.aeroelectric.com  <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>

>     href="http://www.buildersbooks.com

>     <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>">www.buildersbooks.com

>     <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>

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>     <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>">www.homebuilthelp.com

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>     *

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>

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>     *



     *



     _blank">www.aeroelectric.com

     .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

     ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

     _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

     tp://forums.matronics.com

     _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *





 -- 

 Rob Kochman

 RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



 *

 *



 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: Heavy wing

Yep, I completely forgot that part, good catch.  Not a very useful tip, but unfortunately not my first time.



Marcus

On Nov 13, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:






That only works on RVs that have the trailing edge as a bent piece of aluminum. The -10 ailerons are two sheets of aluminum double flush riveted with an extrusion between them(except the quick builds Manila doesn't do double flush, grrr)



On 11/13/2011 1:30 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   This may have been mentioned already, but on the RV-6 the solution was to squeeze, ever so slightly, the trailing edge of the aileron or tap it a little to make the trailing end more square.  It worked like a champ!  There might be some comments in the RV-6 archives.

 

 Marcus

 

 do not archive

 On Nov 12, 2011, at 1:05 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:

 

 Thanks, guys.  It seems like my wing tips are even, and I've verified that the rudder is correct (i.e. ball is centered) when noting the heavy wing.

 I checked that the ailerons are mounted on the wing evenly, but I'll check more closely.  Not sure I would have noticed a 1/32" difference, and it sounds like such a little difference might actually matter.

 Thanks again, and I'll report back.

 -Rob

 

 On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:27 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com <mailto:arplnplt(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

 

    I agree with Gary.

    Try a rudder trim block if you don't have rudder trim.  I thought

    I had a heavy wing until I played with my rudder trim after the

    first few flights.

 

    David Leikam

    RV10

    Flying

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    On Nov 11, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary Specketer wrote:

 

>    I am sure you probably checked this but is your rudder neutral

>    with the heavy wing.  Does the heavyness change as you step on

>    one side or the other?

>    Gary Specketer

> 

>    *From:* Rob Kochman <mailto:rv10rob(at)gmail.com>

>    *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2011 3:12 PM

>    *To:* rv10-list <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

>    *Subject:* Heavy wing

> 

>    Hi, all... I have about 90 hours on the RV-10 now, and everything

>    is great, with the exception of a significantly heavy right

>    wing. I feel like I've tried just about everything, but still

>    can't get it figured out, so looking for suggestions from the

>    group.  Here's what I know (and what I've ruled out):

> 

>      * Using the standard aileron trim, it takes nearly full left

>        trim to keep the wings level at cruise speed. The heavy wing

>        is less noticeable at slower speeds, so it's definitely an

>        aerodynamic problem.

>      * Problem has existed since first flight, so it's not a new

>        issue and not an issue with the leg and wheel fairings

>      * Rigghing is correct (per plans, verified with the aileron

>        bellcrank templates). I tried adjusting one side a little,

>        but as you can imagine, since the ailerons are

>        interconnected, it didn't make a difference).

>      * Flaps are even (measured with a digital level).  just out of

>        curiosity, I lowered the right flap a little to see if it

>        would make a difference.  It did not.

>      * Loading is even (i.e. see the problem w/ balanced load in the

>        cabin and balanced fuel tanks).

>      * Perhaps the most telling: when holding the airplane level,

>        the ailerons are even with the flaps (in the reflex

>        position). *When I let go of the stick, with neutral trim,

>        the left aileron goes down and the right up slightly (maybe

>        1/8" at most). This is consistent with the heavy left wing.*

>      * I've verified that the ailerons are mounted evenly with

>        respect to the rear wing spar, since Van's "heavy wing"

>        document says this can cause issues.

>      * Ailerons seem to be well-built and symmetrical (they're

>        quickbuilds).

> 

>    I've tried everything in Van's "heavy wing" document and talked

>    to several people over there.  They don't have any ideas for me,

>    other than to put a wedge under the left aileron to balance it

>    out (which I've had on there for 60 hours or so).  N410RV has a

>    trim wedge, and one of the guys at Van's says that Van's personal

>    RV-10 has a sizeable trim wedge. too.  Though I'm usually

>    pragmatic about issues like this, it seems that adding the wedge

>    is just admitting defeat--something is giving it a heavy right

>    wing (specifically something is deflecting the left aileron down

>    and the right aileron up), and I should be able to figure out

>    what it is.

>    Anyone have any ideas?  Much appreciated.

>    -Rob

> 

>    --     Rob Kochman

>    RV-10 Flying since March 2011

>    Woodinville, WA

>    http://kochman.net/N819K

> 

>    *

> 

>    href="http://www.aeroelectric.com  <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>">www.aeroelectric.com  <http://www.aeroelectric.com/>

>    href="http://www.buildersbooks.com

>    <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>">www.buildersbooks.com

>    <http://www.buildersbooks.com/>

>    href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com

>    <http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>">www.homebuilthelp.com

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>    *

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> 

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> 

> 

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>    href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

> 

>    *

 

    *

 

    _blank">www.aeroelectric.com

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    get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

    tp://forums.matronics.com

    _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution *

 

 

 

 

 -- 

 Rob Kochman

 RV-10 Flying since March 2011

 Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K

 

 *

 

 

 *

 

 *

 

 

 *

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