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Some success at last
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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Some success at last

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  <snip> It seems that if one trimmed out for this condition, a different aileron and rudder trim would be required when piloting from the right or left seat.  And again it seem like it would be different when carrying a passenger.  Have you noticed that is the case with your aircraft?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN 	




Yes. My trim tab on the right aileron is adjustable, and I set it different when I am solo vs carrying a passenger.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: Some success at last

Hi,



trimming out for passenger/no passenger in the Xtra is simply achieved by 

applying the patented John Hauck method.



Take a bungee. Anchor one end to the base of the passengers seat near the 

door. Take 2 turns around the stick and anchor the free end to the same 

place. Use a length  of bungee such that there is tension applied

The amount of trim required to take the weight off the stick to compensate 

for varying passenger load is simply adjusted by sliding the loop of bungee 

up or down the stick to increase or decrease the tension.

I have used this ever since John brought the system to my attention when I 

first acquired my Xtra and it has worked like a charm.



Good luck



Pat

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: Some success at last

At 09:31 PM 11/27/11 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Yes. My trim tab on the right aileron is adjustable, and I set it different 

when I am solo vs carrying a passenger.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

--------


	




Richard & Pat,



If you have retrimmed your aircraft in roll for carrying a passenger and in 

level flight, what change is there in rudder pedal pressure and the ball or 

string slip indicator when flying with no passenger?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Some success at last

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  At 09:31 PM 11/27/11 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Yes. My trim tab on the right aileron is adjustable, and I set it different 

when I am solo vs carrying a passenger.

	




Richard & Pat,



If you have retrimmed your aircraft in roll for carrying a passenger and in 

level flight, what change is there in rudder pedal pressure and the ball or 

string slip indicator when flying with no passenger?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN 	




My trim tab is not big enough, so I am pushing with the left foot no matter what I do. Winter project: new trim tab.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:45 am Post subject: Some success at last

what change is there in rudder pedal pressure and the ball or

 	  Quote: 	
		   string slip indicator when flying with no passenger?>>


	


Hi Richard.



not enough to notice. She will trim out to fly no hands for some minutes. 

After that she can be kept  reasonably straight with rudder only for a 

while. Certainly long enough to sort out a map.  Not perfect but as with so 

many other things attaining that last few per cent is the difficult bit and 

I for one won`t bother to refine things any further.



Cheers



Pat

 	  Quote:

Frankd

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Some success at last

Hi Guys, 



great suggestions about the Bungee to trim for a passenger, thanks!



Its fog time here in San Jose,  but yesterday it cleared up in Hollister about 11.00AM  and was calm and the airport was empty,  so I went up for an hour.  I have two trim questions.  

1/  I agree with John H about the prop wash on the tail for which I have to put in Right rudder to compensate for.  I topped up with a tad too much oil and the left side of the rudder and top of the left HS was spattered. How big is your trim tab , John?  two rib bays long but how wide?  3 inches?? 

I think that will help eliminate yaw and right rudder input.



2/ I added an aerodynamic elevator trim tab and it works wonderfully.   But I still find that my M3X is unstable in pitch,  ie,  I cannot take my hands off the stick for long as it will  start to either dive or climb,  depending on the power setting and trim setting,  and will not recover by itself.  Is there a way to set up the plane so that it will fly hands off?  (in pitch)



Any suggestions are appreciated. 



FrankD



PS,  My engine is now running well,  max CHTs around 310 Deg F,   and oil temps around 200,  with EGT's below 1400.  

Now I'm trying to get the radio noise eliminated!



M3 Xtra, Jabiru 2200,

8Hrs logged, Hollister Ca.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: Some success at last

1/  I agree with John H about the prop wash on the tail for which I have to

put in Right rudder to compensate for.  I topped up with a tad too much oil

and the left side of the rudder and top of the left HS was spattered. How

big is your trim tab , John?  two rib bays long but how wide?  3 inches?? 

I think that will help eliminate yaw and right rudder input. 



FrankD

 

Frank D/Kolbers:



Here are some pics with a spare rudder trim tab I made.  Same, same what I

have on my MKIII, except I rounded the corners more than depicted on this

piece.  This was also the first tab I tested, which covered 3 rib bays, and

moved adverse yaw the opposite direction in the same amount as it flew

without a trim tab.  After I cut it one rib bay and to the dimensions

indicated below, it flew with the ball centered and feet off the rudder

pedals.



Dimensions are marked on the trim tab, but in case you cannot read them,

here they are:



Width:    14 3/4"



Length:  1 7/8" to the bend (35 degrees) with a 3 1/8 trailing edge.



Short side is riveted to the ribs with large flange aluminum fabric rivets.



I use aluminum rivets (hardware store quality) for anything that is not

structural because they are much easier to remove when it comes time to

change a component.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: Some success at last

At 11:31 AM 11/29/2011, Frankd wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  2/ I added an aerodynamic elevator trim tab and it works wonderfully.   But I still find that my M3X is unstable in pitch,  ie,  I cannot take my hands off the stick for long as it will  start to either dive or climb,  depending on the power setting and trim setting,  and will not recover by itself.  Is there a way to set up the plane so that it will fly hands off?  (in pitch) 	


 Pitch stability is primarily a matter of CG.  If the CG is aft, the airplane will not be stable in pitch.  Get too far aft of the neutral point and the aircraft becomes violently unstable.



 I took a different approach.  When I bought my Ultrastar, letting go of the stick meant a nose dive.  I added elevator trim tabs to get the trim speed to about 40mph (reasoning that it _might_ be survivable an elevator cable or something broke).  I also have a bungee to pull more nose down trim, up to a cruise speed of approximately 55 mph.



 -Dana



 

 --

 Shaw's principle:  Build a machine that a fool can use, and only a fool will want to use it.   

    [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: Some success at last

Now I'm trying to get the radio noise eliminated!>>



Let the list know how you get on with that. Please



Pat

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: Some success at last

Richard G/Kolbers:



Don't know if Richard got this email or not, with a couple photos of my

rudder trim tab.



However, this particular rudder trim tab design has fixed adverse yaw on a

lot of MKIII and MKIIIx aircraft, to include the newest iteration of the

MKIIIx I tested several years ago.  Before the rudder trim tab was

installed, that was the most God awful feeling airplane I have ever flown.

After rudder trim tab installation, this MKIIIx flew just like a Kolb.



If you haven't tried the trim tab on the critter you are trying to tame,

tape one on with duct tape and go fly.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Some success at last

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  Richard G/Kolbers:

Don't know if Richard got this email or not, with a couple photos of my

rudder trim tab.

<snip>

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

-- 	




Yep, thanks. I'll try one about 1 1/2" longer, and 1 1/2" wider and see what happens.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

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