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Weather capabilities and severe turblance

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Jon Reining

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax.  Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot.



On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing.  It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked.  About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'.  We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane.  We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point.  Our attitude and altitude were all over the place.  This lasted for a full two minutes.  ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north.  My friend, CFI/CFII, did a great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there.  It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again.  After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down.  



In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel.  In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself?  Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar?  Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out?  Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that?  Short of an on-board radar, what are our options?  Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like.  Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton?



Jon Reining

40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities)

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jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

My oh my oh my!  Thank you for sharing this and thank goodness you got down

and safely so.  I, too, am ready to spend whatever big bucks is required for

at least XM weather and some form of traffic / terrain.  Am going to be very

interested in this thread.   



John J



do not archive



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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

  Short of onboard radar the two main  technologies I can think of to avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are  NEXRAD, through a service like XM, and also/or a Stormscope.   Remember that datalinked weather isn't real time so it isn't always the  best answer but it will give you good trend and near real time  weather.  Stormscopes on the other hand will show you current  lightning which is almost always hand in hand with severe convective  activity.



  I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I  choose for an EFIS but it really needs to be installed by someone with  proper equipment to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse  nothing at all.

Michael Sausen

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage

Do Not Archive



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deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the 

 capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel.  

 In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, 

 what is available to us so that we can see it ourself?  Is XM weather 

 dependant on air traffic control's weather radar?  Would we still get 

 weather




	


    You may consider looking into ADS-B.  It does not cover all of the 

US yet, but

it will over the next several years.  Up front equipment costs, but no 

monthly or other

subscription fees for traffic and weather information.  The equipment is 

really expensive

right now, but I hope it comes down by the time I need to buy to install.



http://www.adsb.gov/



http://www.ads-b.com/



-Dj

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Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

I flew with a Strikefinder in my B55 Baron's and they were VERY 

effective in identifying thunderstorms, and much less expensive. I also 

had onboard radar on one of them, and I preferred the Strikefinder data, 

(The radar is sometimes dificult to interpret if you don't fly it 

regularly (my case).



Deems Davis # 406

Fuse

http://deemsrv10.com/



RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:



[quote]   Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to 

 avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service 

 like XM, and also/or a Stormscope.  Remember that datalinked weather 

 isn't real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give 

 you good trend and near real time weather.  Stormscopes on the other 

 hand will show you current lightning which is almost always hand in 

 hand with severe convective activity.



   I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS 

 but it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment 

 to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all.

 Michael Sausen

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 Do Not Archive



 --

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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

Jon,



That's quite a story!  Glad it all ended well for you.

You should feel comforted....  With the Chelton system,

you can currently get WSI, but I'm guessing a bit

later this year you'd be able to get XM.  Both are

satellite based systems that have no ties to ATC.

WSI weather is actually what FSS uses themselves,

from what I've been told.  With various packages,

you can have TFR's, lightning strikes, Nexrad,

and all the goodies you're looking for, and they are

very nicely used on the Chelton, because they'll

automatically overlay many functions right on your

main map page, or you can get a larger picture on a

zoom and pan-able page.   So I think you'll be very

pleased.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jon Reining wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <jonathan.w.reining(at)wellsfargo.com>

 

 I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in

 his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on

 the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax.  Alfonsina's

 is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500'

 dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot.

 

 On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our

 weather briefing.  It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay

 Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how

 it looked.  About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the

 hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't

 look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR,

 received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'.  We were soon in

 IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a

 thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of

 control of the airplane.  We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees

 to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our

 maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point.  Our

 attitude and altitude were all over the place.  This lasted for a

 full two minutes.  ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and

 maneuver to the north.  My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and

 instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C

 outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job

 getting us out of there.  It was a really tough spot, one that I hope

 to never be in again.  After we got out, ATC announced that the

 weather capabilities of his radar were down.

 

 In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the

 capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel.

 In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble,

 what is available to us so that we can see it ourself?  Is XM weather

 dependant on air traffic control's weather radar?  Would we still get

 weather in the cockpit if their's is out?  Since there was no

 lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have

 detected that?  Short of an on-board radar, what are our options?

 Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can

 definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic

 vision, what the ground looks like.  Can XM weather be displayed on

 the Chelton?

 

 Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings

 and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities)

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36025#36025

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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

I forgot to mention....  Jon, if you're not happy enough with

just Nexrad and strikes shown by XM/WSI, the Chelton will

also integrate to the WX-500 stormscope, so you can have that

too, on it's own dedicated page.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote]   Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to 

 avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service like 

 XM, and also/or a Stormscope.  Remember that datalinked weather isn't 

 real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give you good 

 trend and near real time weather.  Stormscopes on the other hand will 

 show you current lightning which is almost always hand in hand with 

 severe convective activity.

 

   I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but 

 it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make 

 sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all.

 

 

 Michael Sausen

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 Do Not Archive

 

 --

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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

Have 15 years using a Strikefinder and found them to be very helpful in 

avoiding the bad stuff (turbulence and hail) Came through an area IMC at 

5000 near Cross City Florida where there were no strikes and had a smooth 

ride with moderate to very heavy rain. The airplane was leaking around the 

doors. When I popped into blue sky I looked back and asked myself "Did I 

come through that" a cliff of clouds with tops to FL400. At least in my book 

the game is stay away from the strikes.



For the 10 I considered the Strikefinder but have delayed purchase and am 

now experimenting with XM weather and Truemap software in my Glastar. I will 

know more about using XM after the OSH trip and then perhaps can make an 

informed decision on Strikefinder (cost $5000) or XM weather (monthly 

charges forever).

---

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jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: Weather capabilities and severe turblance

Jon,



We have XM weather in our -10.  It is great.  Usually ATC lets us know what

is coming, but we can see it onscreen before we hear it from them.  We can

see the build-ups before they are thunderstorms with the echo tops feature.

We can see the movement and growth of the storms with Nexrad and Strikes.

We can tell what is happening at nearby airports with Metars and TAFs.  We

wouldn't be without it.  We had one flight where the -10 was in the soup

from 10 minutes after take-off until final, and the flight was over 4 hours.

Without the weather onboard, that would have been a no-go or detour trip.

Even in the soup, you know what is liveable soup and what it "bounce you

around and fold your wings" soup because of the weather.



We are using a flight cheetah by true flight (www.trueflight.org).  If I

understand correctly, the Chelton's can also show all of this information.



Don't leave home without it.



Do not archive.



Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

352-465-4545



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