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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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Kurt,
Thank you. In the future I will post my comments on that site. Hopefully it will generate more enthusiasm this time around than previous. As others have said. We are all very wrapped up in our own busy worlds currently with much of it being driven by the economy.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Howerton
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:47 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: An open letter to the RPA
Gentlemen -
A while back we were working on putting up a billboard of sorts for the RPA. It's a bit of a hack and there was little demand for it, so it fell by the wayside. Based on the discussion happening here, I've make the unilateral decision to open the forums up.
http://www.flyredstar.org/members_forums.php
Please be patient with it - we didn't do much testing. I'll do what I can to make it functional and useful.
I've taken the liberty of posting Barry's initial email in the General Discussion area.
<Just a note on what I feel my role is - I'm attempting to be a technology enabler. I don't own or create the content on the RPA website. I post and update content when (and only when) requested by the RPA Officers.>
--
Kurt "It" Howerton
N923YK
530-312-1299
http://cj6.scitechsys.com
http://www.baybombersquadron.com
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:48 AM, barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>
All,
I recently received my "5th call" for membership renewal via an ecomm. For some time I have been contemplating my membership in the RPA. In the past I have served on the board, as a regional director, media relations guy, and run the flagship event for the RPA on the west coast - All Red Star - so my interest in seeing the association prosper and serve it's membership is significant.
To me, an association of this type (all volunteer and serving a special interest group) needs to be as inclusive as possible, consistently provide useful information helping to support individual operators, and also representative of the membership at large in order to provide value to the members.
In this day of communication, there is no reason to not have regular contact with membership via the internet and email. Our association has supposedly spent our membership dollars in recent years in upgrading/maintaining the web site and ecomm tools, yet there have been no useful updates in at least 6 months. There have been virtually no ecomms in recent memory other than membership recruiting and announcements of elections. Why is there not a monthly update to membership on what is going on in the association. Come to find out there has not been a board meeting in 9 months. And who are our current board members? Flyredstar.org shows all the regional directors expiring in summer 2011.
Red Alert is supposed to be a quarterly magazine, yet there hasn't been one in nearly a year. The last archived RA on the web is from the Spring of 2010 (the Winter 2010 link takes us to a 2009 edition). When there is a magazine, most of the articles focus on formation. Yet, how many of our 500+ members fly formation? Speaking of 500 members, last I heard there were 400+ members. While the numbers are great, why don't I know any of them? How hard would it be every month to acknowledge new members and introduce them to membership so they feel welcomed and wanted?
In 3 of the 6 regions there are no events scheduled for 2012.
When was the last time a budget, tax return, or I&E was presented to membership, much less voted on? When was the last membership meeting?
Does anyone know who is on the check pilot committee? How did they get there?
The questions go on, but one thing is clear, at least to me. The current representation of membership, value of membership, and communication with membership is unacceptable.
Having had several conversations with current and past RPA leadership, the single biggest problem is membership structure. We have "one deep" representation at the top, and on nearly all committees. Why? With 500+ members are you telling me we cannot form small volunteer groups for each committee to make the workload manageable and make sure that membership is consistently served in a valuable way, even when one of the volunteers has life happen and cannot perform his/her responsibility in a timely manner? An association of this type does not need a president, but a chairman of the board. A perfect example of why leadership structure needs to change is that our president (whom I like and respect) had personal issues that kept him from performing his duties as president and the association essentially stopped functioning. Under the current structure the president's position carries too much burden and what we have seen in the last 12+ months is the result - membership is!
not properly served by the association.
To me this is all the result of a system that needs an overhaul. Just like with any governance, entrenched leadership is problematic at some point or another. Both from a burnout standpoint, and a dogmatic entrenchment standpoint, allowing people to stay in leadership for more than two consecutive terms does not foster selfless agendas or the representation of membership at large. What is does foster is cliques and a good ole boys network. This needs to change.
Because of these issues, and no apparent tangible efforts being made to correct them, I will not be renewing my membership with the RPA this year. I would love to support the association and feel like the association is supporting us. But until I see evidence of the latter, I will not be renewing my membership.
I encourage each RPA or prospective RPA member to evaluate for yourself what you want out of membership in an association such as the RPA and consider wether or not your needs are being met. If they are not and you are not speaking up and you are continuing to support the current state of affairs, you are doing everyone a disservice.
This association has lots of potential. It has the talent pool of over 500 successful people to draw from. It can be vibrant, engaged, and valuable. I hope it will be all of that and more some day. And then I will come back. Until then there is a very small cadre of leadership that is steering the RPA ship...when was the last time you heard from any of them on what is going on with your association?
Respectfully submitted,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
[url=tel:%28877%29%20869-6458](877) 869-6458[/url]
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362238#362238
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[quote][b]
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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That ant' no lie.
Pappy
In a message dated 1/2/2012 9:39:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, viperdoc(at)mindspring.com writes:
| Quote: |
Kurt,
Thank you. In the future I will post my comments on that site. Hopefully it will generate more enthusiasm this time around than previous. As others have said. We are all very wrapped up in our own busy worlds currently with much of it being driven by the economy.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Howerton
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 7:47 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: An open letter to the RPA
Gentlemen -
A while back we were working on putting up a billboard of sorts for the RPA. It's a bit of a hack and there was little demand for it, so it fell by the wayside. Based on the discussion happening here, I've make the unilateral decision to open the forums up.
http://www.flyredstar.org/members_forums.php
Please be patient with it - we didn't do much testing. I'll do what I can to make it functional and useful.
I've taken the liberty of posting Barry's initial email in the General Discussion area.
<Just a note on what I feel my role is - I'm attempting to be a technology enabler. I don't own or create the content on the RPA website. I post and update content when (and only when) requested by the RPA Officers.>
--
Kurt "It" Howerton
N923YK
530-312-1299
http://cj6.scitechsys.com
http://www.baybombersquadron.com
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:48 AM, barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>
All,
I recently received my "5th call" for membership renewal via an ecomm. For some time I have been contemplating my membership in the RPA. In the past I have served on the board, as a regional director, media relations guy, and run the flagship event for the RPA on the west coast - All Red Star - so my interest in seeing the association prosper and serve it's membership is significant.
To me, an association of this type (all volunteer and serving a special interest group) needs to be as inclusive as possible, consistently provide useful information helping to support individual operators, and also representative of the membership at large in order to provide value to the members.
In this day of communication, there is no reason to not have regular contact with membership via the internet and email. Our association has supposedly spent our membership dollars in recent years in upgrading/maintaining the web site and ecomm tools, yet there have been no useful updates in at least 6 months. There have been virtually no ecomms in recent memory other than membership recruiting and announcements of elections. Why is there not a monthly update to membership on what is going on in the association. Come to find out there has not been a board meeting in 9 months. And who are our current board members? Flyredstar.org shows all the regional directors expiring in summer 2011.
Red Alert is supposed to be a quarterly magazine, yet there hasn't been one in nearly a year. The last archived RA on the web is from the Spring of 2010 (the Winter 2010 link takes us to a 2009 edition). When there is a magazine, most of the articles focus on formation. Yet, how many of our 500+ members fly formation? Speaking of 500 members, last I heard there were 400+ members. While the numbers are great, why don't I know any of them? How hard would it be every month to acknowledge new members and introduce them to membership so they feel welcomed and wanted?
In 3 of the 6 regions there are no events scheduled for 2012.
When was the last time a budget, tax return, or I&E was presented to membership, much less voted on? When was the last membership meeting?
Does anyone know who is on the check pilot committee? How did they get there?
The questions go on, but one thing is clear, at least to me. The current representation of membership, value of membership, and communication with membership is unacceptable.
Having had several conversations with current and past RPA leadership, the single biggest problem is membership structure. We have "one deep" representation at the top, and on nearly all committees. Why? With 500+ members are you telling me we cannot form small volunteer groups for each committee to make the workload manageable and make sure that membership is consistently served in a valuable way, even when one of the volunteers has life happen and cannot perform his/her responsibility in a timely manner? An association of this type does not need a president, but a chairman of the board. A perfect example of why leadership structure needs to change is that our president (whom I like and respect) had personal issues that kept him from performing his duties as president and the association essentially stopped functioning. Under the current structure the president's position carries too much burden and what we have seen in the last 12+ months is the result - membership is!
not properly served by the association.
To me this is all the result of a system that needs an overhaul. Just like with any governance, entrenched leadership is problematic at some point or another. Both from a burnout standpoint, and a dogmatic entrenchment standpoint, allowing people to stay in leadership for more than two consecutive terms does not foster selfless agendas or the representation of membership at large. What is does foster is cliques and a good ole boys network. This needs to change.
Because of these issues, and no apparent tangible efforts being made to correct them, I will not be renewing my membership with the RPA this year. I would love to support the association and feel like the association is supporting us. But until I see evidence of the latter, I will not be renewing my membership.
I encourage each RPA or prospective RPA member to evaluate for yourself what you want out of membership in an association such as the RPA and consider wether or not your needs are being met. If they are not and you are not speaking up and you are continuing to support the current state of affairs, you are doing everyone a disservice.
This association has lots of potential. It has the talent pool of over 500 successful people to draw from. It can be vibrant, engaged, and valuable. I hope it will be all of that and more some day. And then I will come back. Until then there is a very small cadre of leadership that is steering the RPA ship...when was the last time you heard from any of them on what is going on with your association?
Respectfully submitted,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
[url=tel:%28877%29%20869-6458](877) 869-6458[/url]
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362238#362238
===========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
8 |
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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hess737(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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Thanks Doc.
Brian, Barry,
I feel badly for you two because in one case it seems you are frustrated with not seeing things go as you envisioned. For the other, it seems you've either been forced out or decided to walk away. I am sincere when I say change comes from within.
Both the Gadflies and desenters should be kept close, not pushed away. For me, the organization is a voice and a way to encourage standardization and safety. Can't do that if the ones voicing change or perhaps doing things unsafe are being kept at arms length...
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: An open letter to the RPA |
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Guys,
I will just comment on a few things and step back:
1) I would have renewed if I felt that my concerns were being addressed in a meaningful way. To me, threatening to leave would have been like a poorly placed "initiator," as Rich put it.
2) Before you criticize my suggestions, read what they say. I did not suggest, intimate, insinuate, or make any reference to whether others should quit or follow my lead. I merely suggest others not walk blindly, but rather evaluate wether or not they are getting what they want/need out of the association. But perpetuating the status quo with passive approval is not moving the association forward, in my opinion.
3) Brian is (or was when he was doing it, lol) a good formation pilot, as well as a good CFI. He also has an uncanny ability to stir up emotions with a keyboard.  -
4) I truly wish I was in a position to stay and and give energy to help directing the RPA in a more fulfilling direction for it's members. I cannot, in good conscience, take on more obligations at this point in my life. Further, as Bill says, I'm not convinced stepping forward would do anything other than exacerbate my frustrations (read what Bill's reaction has been to his attempts at communication with leadership....are you kidding me?). There are many talented and people with vision that can step forward. I hope they do.
5) My comments about restructuring the leadership mechanisms are the first, and most crucial in my opinion, step, in righting the ship. Entrenched leadership is not healthy for any organization. I have a great deal of respect for many of the leaders, past and present, and I know their efforts are significant, but our organization is now 500+ members and as Darrell Gary said in a BOD meeting a few years ago, "fresh blood is needed" in order for this organization to thrive. It is not only needed, but completely plausible.
Respectfully,
Barry
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com |
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:29 PM, barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | 3) Brian is (or was when he was doing it, lol) a good formation pilot, as well as a good CFI. He also has an uncanny ability to stir up emotions with a keyboard. -
|
Aw, shucks. Still doin' it. Still am.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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and I quote.........
"Has anyone asked the most basic question of all, "Does it matter?" "
On Jan 2, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
[quote]On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:29 PM, barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | 3) Brian is (or was when he was doing it, lol) a good formation pilot, as well as a good CFI. He also has an uncanny ability to stir up emotions with a keyboard. -
|
Aw, shucks. Still doin' it. Still am.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Roger Baker <f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com (f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | and I quote.........
"Has anyone asked the most basic question of all, "Does it matter?" "
|
Nope.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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invert33(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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I'm relatively new to the list, approximately 18 months. It once was a valuable resource, listening to the wisdom of contributors who were reasonable and rational. There has been a shift over the last 6 months or so with certain contributors posting what appear to be antagonistic emails which serve no purpose except to agitate for own self gratification. It is rare nowadays for the likes of the Coy's and other valuable members of the community to post, given the emails below I can now see why.
Of course people are entitled to express opinion, there must be a better way approach rather than to be a personal "gadfly". Statements like that are simply childish.
I will be unsubscribing from the list. It would be appreciated if someone could let me know when Brian is longer contributing and I will sign up once again.
Sent from my iPhone
On 03/01/2012, at 3:10 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:
[quote]
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Roger Baker <[url=mailto:f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com]f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com (f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | and I quote.........
"Has anyone asked the most basic question of all, "Does it matter?" "
|
Nope.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
[url=mailto:brian(at)lloyd.com]brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)[/url]
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:48 am Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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Its the Aztec calendar.
Pappy
In a message dated 1/3/2012 2:04:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, invert33(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | I'm relatively new to the list, approximately 18 months. It once was a valuable resource, listening to the wisdom of contributors who were reasonable and rational. There has been a shift over the last 6 months or so with certain contributors posting what appear to be antagonistic emails which serve no purpose except to agitate for own self gratification. It is rare nowadays for the likes of the Coy's and other valuable members of the community to post, given the emails below I can now see why.
Of course people are entitled to express opinion, there must be a better way approach rather than to be a personal "gadfly". Statements like that are simply childish.
I will be unsubscribing from the list. It would be appreciated if someone could let me know when Brian is longer contributing and I will sign up once again.
Sent from my iPhone
On 03/01/2012, at 3:10 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Roger Baker <[url=mailto:f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com]f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com (f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | and I quote.........
"Has anyone asked the most basic question of all, "Does it matter?" "
|
Nope.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
[url=mailto:brian(at)lloyd.com]brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)[/url]
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:55 am Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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I rest my case.
Bill
On Jan 3, 2012, at 12:00 AM, Invert <invert33(at)gmail.com (invert33(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]I'm relatively new to the list, approximately 18 months. It once was a valuable resource, listening to the wisdom of contributors who were reasonable and rational. There has been a shift over the last 6 months or so with certain contributors posting what appear to be antagonistic emails which serve no purpose except to agitate for own self gratification. It is rare nowadays for the likes of the Coy's and other valuable members of the community to post, given the emails below I can now see why.
Of course people are entitled to express opinion, there must be a better way approach rather than to be a personal "gadfly". Statements like that are simply childish.
I will be unsubscribing from the list. It would be appreciated if someone could let me know when Brian is longer contributing and I will sign up once again.
Sent from my iPhone
On 03/01/2012, at 3:10 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Roger Baker < (f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com)f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com (f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | and I quote.........
"Has anyone asked the most basic question of all, "Does it matter?" "
|
Nope.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
(brian(at)lloyd.com)brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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ONTHEGOAZ(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: An Open Letter to the RPA |
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Hello Everyone,
Barry's concerns are valid, most of the problems could be fixed with a change in the structure of the RPA. Currently the National and Regional Directors are below the President in the chain of command, the Regional directors should receive their input from the general membership within their respective region (IE the "Liaison") then move forward with that input to the National Directors whom in turn direct the President (who serves at the National Directors leisure) the path to pursue.
In the past we have enjoyed very attentive as well as organized Presidents in office so this fatal flaw in the RPA structure remained unseen, don't get me wrong I like Terry and believe he is trying his best but the fact of the matter is his personal platter is or has been full. If the President served at the "Leisure" of the National Directors they then could have then requested he resign do to personal issues and appoint someone that had the time available to run the organization. I believe this very subject is a "agenda item" listed on the next BOD meeting.
As far as the Instructor/Check Pilots are concerned, the BOD receives their collective input before acting on any issue concerning the RPA. Case in point, the Check Pilots are concerned about having "Tactical Formation" information in the Training manual, they believe it needs to be removed from the Manual and can be provided somewhere else or not at all for liability reasons. The BOD is addressing their concerns but again ultimately it's up to the president as to what actions will be taken under the current RPA structure.
I'm available to discuss these issues or any other issues that anyone has within the RPA.
Regards,
Scott Andrews
Southwest Regional Director
602-705-4413
Onthegoaz(at)aol.com (Onthegoaz(at)aol.com)
[quote][b]
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:55 am Post subject: An Open Letter to the RPA |
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Since I am not currently an RPA member perhaps I should keep my mouth shut but this was an issue I brought up long ago.
In any organization typically not more than 10% of the members are real contributors of time and effort. It doesn't take very long to figure out who they are. The problem with centralized organization is that it tends to stifle the motivation to do things at a local level. Either people start to think, "oh, they are going to take care of it up there," or they feel left out. (I know I felt that way after the first Red Star at Castle.) So the organization needs to allow people to accomplish things on a local level more than on a centralized/global level. Sure you need agreement globally but all the action is going to happen locally. Make sure you think about that as you adjust your organization.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:25 am Post subject: An Open Letter to the RPA |
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Sage advice.
Bill
On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:
[quote]Since I am not currently an RPA member perhaps I should keep my mouth shut but this was an issue I brought up long ago.
In any organization typically not more than 10% of the members are real contributors of time and effort. It doesn't take very long to figure out who they are. The problem with centralized organization is that it tends to stifle the motivation to do things at a local level. Either people start to think, "oh, they are going to take care of it up there," or they feel left out. (I know I felt that way after the first Red Star at Castle.) So the organization needs to allow people to accomplish things on a local level more than on a centralized/global level. Sure you need agreement globally but all the action is going to happen locally. Make sure you think about that as you adjust your organization.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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cs.com
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: Re: An open letter to the RPA |
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To the comment "does it matter?":
For some of you, the answer may be no, and that is certainly OK. But, to a great many of us who want to be a part of something that serves membership, provides "critical mass" for issues with the FAA, and has many other tangible and worthwhile benefits, it does matter. Please don't minimize other's legitimate concerns or desires, just because you don't share them.
Barry
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_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
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brian(at)lloyd.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Richard Hess <hess737(at)aol.com (hess737(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks Doc.
Brian, Barry,
I feel badly for you two because in one case it seems you are frustrated with not seeing things go as you envisioned. For the other, it seems you've either been forced out or decided to walk away. I am sincere when I say change comes from within.
|
First, I want to apologize to the group. The only thing I am really interested in is helping people solve problems. OTOH, I have a hard time just smiling, nodding my head, and walking away when I perceive someone is acting unthinkingly. This is my problem and I am working on it. And some people just rub me the wrong way and I seem unable to just let it go. Again, my apologies for dumping that on the whole list.
But the entire Yak Pilots' Club/Yak Pilots' Association/Redstar Pilot's Association has, from the beginning, had a clear bias that is exclusive rather than inclusive. Back then it was a good ol' boys club and the inner-circle was made up of ex-military pilots. If you hadn't flown for the USAF or USN, well, you weren't really considered competent no matter what you did.
I purchased a CJ6A from Yakity Yaks in 1998. Like you I was in love with the airplane. (I have never flown another airplane with better control harmony and I have flown a LOT of airplanes.) I learned everything I could and then tried to help others. In fact, I got Matt Dralle to create this list as part of that. Education was a hard-won thing too. Relatively few people really had the knowledge and most of them weren't really talking. Some were making their living selling and supporting the aircraft and seemed to think that giving away assistance was cutting into their revenue stream.
For me the whole thing came to a head with a couple of events about 10 years ago. The big one for me was the first All Red Star event at Castle AFB. This was the first of Drew's vision for a lot of fun and involvement for everyone. (And a good thing it was too.) I was deeply involved and did much of the legwork for making the first ARS event happen. Drew was in LA and flying for the airlines. When Drew was there, I was there with him. When Drew was unavailable, I was the one dealing with vendors at Castle and in the surrounding Atwater area. I certainly didn't do all the work but I did a substantial amount of it.
Then the event started. The "old guard" arrived and took over. At that point I was supposed to do what I was told, fly the hops with the FNGs that they didn't want to fly with, and keep my mouth shut. I remember how incensed and betrayed I felt when Drew lavished praise on these guys who had done nothing to set up the event but arrive and lord it over everyone else. And as I recall, at the end of the banquet where Drew gave credit to everyone except me, it was Barry who stood up and publicly thanked me for my work.
So, yeah, I felt excluded. I suspect some of you know how that feels as well.
The other event was a friend who came to ARS the next year to come up to speed on learning to fly formation. The "inner circle" took exception to his airplane (limited instrumentation in the back seat) and told him that they wouldn't let him fly. Since the FAA approves his airplane for flight, and since he had been flying the airplane regularly, I think that its basic airworthiness had been proven. So I took that as another example of the exclusionary behavior of the "Yak Pilot's Club". (I also think that he was partly tarred with the brush of being my friend and student.)
So, yes, I think that the RPA could probably do with a little more inclusion and a little less of the Mount Olympus mentality. But maybe it has changed and I am completely off base. If so, then I apologize for dredging up old, obsolete memories.
Lastly, I want everyone to know that, if they need help with any aspect of owning and operating their CJ6A or Yak-52, I will do my best to help. (I am much more knowledgeable on the CJ6A than I am on the -52 but I still have a pretty good handle on both systems and flying -52.)
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
[url=tel:%2B1.767.617.1365]+1.767.617.1365[/url] (Dominica)
[url=tel:%2B1.916.877.5067]+1.916.877.5067[/url] (USA)
[quote][b]
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brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:13 am Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:50 AM, barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>
To the comment "does it matter?":
For some of you, the answer may be no, and that is certainly OK. But, to a great many of us who want to be a part of something that serves membership, provides "critical mass" for issues with the FAA, and has many other tangible and worthwhile benefits, it does matter. Please don't minimize other's legitimate concerns or desires, just because you don't share them.
|
And I think that people misunderstood my, "nope," answer to Roger Baker. I took his query to be directed to me and my background and I was agreeing with him that, in the final reckoning, my comments really didn't matter. I recognize that, insofar as RPA is concerned, Brian Lloyd and his opinions don't matter one bit. In the end, only actions matter.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
[quote][b]
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:24 am Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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Thank you.
Bill
On Jan 3, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)> wrote:
[quote]
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Richard Hess <hess737(at)aol.com (hess737(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks Doc.
Brian, Barry,
I feel badly for you two because in one case it seems you are frustrated with not seeing things go as you envisioned. For the other, it seems you've either been forced out or decided to walk away. I am sincere when I say change comes from within.
|
First, I want to apologize to the group. The only thing I am really interested in is helping people solve problems. OTOH, I have a hard time just smiling, nodding my head, and walking away when I perceive someone is acting unthinkingly. This is my problem and I am working on it. And some people just rub me the wrong way and I seem unable to just let it go. Again, my apologies for dumping that on the whole list.
But the entire Yak Pilots' Club/Yak Pilots' Association/Redstar Pilot's Association has, from the beginning, had a clear bias that is exclusive rather than inclusive. Back then it was a good ol' boys club and the inner-circle was made up of ex-military pilots. If you hadn't flown for the USAF or USN, well, you weren't really considered competent no matter what you did.
I purchased a CJ6A from Yakity Yaks in 1998. Like you I was in love with the airplane. (I have never flown another airplane with better control harmony and I have flown a LOT of airplanes.) I learned everything I could and then tried to help others. In fact, I got Matt Dralle to create this list as part of that. Education was a hard-won thing too. Relatively few people really had the knowledge and most of them weren't really talking. Some were making their living selling and supporting the aircraft and seemed to think that giving away assistance was cutting into their revenue stream.
For me the whole thing came to a head with a couple of events about 10 years ago. The big one for me was the first All Red Star event at Castle AFB. This was the first of Drew's vision for a lot of fun and involvement for everyone. (And a good thing it was too.) I was deeply involved and did much of the legwork for making the first ARS event happen. Drew was in LA and flying for the airlines. When Drew was there, I was there with him. When Drew was unavailable, I was the one dealing with vendors at Castle and in the surrounding Atwater area. I certainly didn't do all the work but I did a substantial amount of it.
Then the event started. The "old guard" arrived and took over. At that point I was supposed to do what I was told, fly the hops with the FNGs that they didn't want to fly with, and keep my mouth shut. I remember how incensed and betrayed I felt when Drew lavished praise on these guys who had done nothing to set up the event but arrive and lord it over everyone else. And as I recall, at the end of the banquet where Drew gave credit to everyone except me, it was Barry who stood up and publicly thanked me for my work.
So, yeah, I felt excluded. I suspect some of you know how that feels as well.
The other event was a friend who came to ARS the next year to come up to speed on learning to fly formation. The "inner circle" took exception to his airplane (limited instrumentation in the back seat) and told him that they wouldn't let him fly. Since the FAA approves his airplane for flight, and since he had been flying the airplane regularly, I think that its basic airworthiness had been proven. So I took that as another example of the exclusionary behavior of the "Yak Pilot's Club". (I also think that he was partly tarred with the brush of being my friend and student.)
So, yes, I think that the RPA could probably do with a little more inclusion and a little less of the Mount Olympus mentality. But maybe it has changed and I am completely off base. If so, then I apologize for dredging up old, obsolete memories.
Lastly, I want everyone to know that, if they need help with any aspect of owning and operating their CJ6A or Yak-52, I will do my best to help. (I am much more knowledgeable on the CJ6A than I am on the -52 but I still have a pretty good handle on both systems and flying -52.)
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
[url=tel:%2B1.767.617.1365]+1.767.617.1365[/url] (Dominica)
[url=tel:%2B1.916.877.5067]+1.916.877.5067[/url] (USA)
[b]
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N13472(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: An open letter to the RPA |
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So, yes, I think that the RPA could probably do with a little more inclusion and a little less of the Mount Olympus mentality. But maybe it has changed and I am completely off base. If so, then I apologize for dredging up old, obsolete memories.
Brian your right on about the RPA’s problems. Mount Olympus has been growing like a cancer for the last several years. And has
been consolidating top down control of the RPA.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 702-595-2680
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 9:54 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: An open letter to the RPA
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Richard Hess <hess737(at)aol.com (hess737(at)aol.com)> wrote:
Thanks Doc.
Brian, Barry,
I feel badly for you two because in one case it seems you are frustrated with not seeing things go as you envisioned. For the other, it seems you've either been forced out or decided to walk away. I am sincere when I say change comes from within.
First, I want to apologize to the group. The only thing I am really interested in is helping people solve problems. OTOH, I have a hard time just smiling, nodding my head, and walking away when I perceive someone is acting unthinkingly. This is my problem and I am working on it. And some people just rub me the wrong way and I seem unable to just let it go. Again, my apologies for dumping that on the whole list.
But the entire Yak Pilots' Club/Yak Pilots' Association/Redstar Pilot's Association has, from the beginning, had a clear bias that is exclusive rather than inclusive. Back then it was a good ol' boys club and the inner-circle was made up of ex-military pilots. If you hadn't flown for the USAF or USN, well, you weren't really considered competent no matter what you did.
I purchased a CJ6A from Yakity Yaks in 1998. Like you I was in love with the airplane. (I have never flown another airplane with better control harmony and I have flown a LOT of airplanes.) I learned everything I could and then tried to help others. In fact, I got Matt Dralle to create this list as part of that. Education was a hard-won thing too. Relatively few people really had the knowledge and most of them weren't really talking. Some were making their living selling and supporting the aircraft and seemed to think that giving away assistance was cutting into their revenue stream.
For me the whole thing came to a head with a couple of events about 10 years ago. The big one for me was the first All Red Star event at Castle AFB. This was the first of Drew's vision for a lot of fun and involvement for everyone. (And a good thing it was too.) I was deeply involved and did much of the legwork for making the first ARS event happen. Drew was in LA and flying for the airlines. When Drew was there, I was there with him. When Drew was unavailable, I was the one dealing with vendors at Castle and in the surrounding Atwater area. I certainly didn't do all the work but I did a substantial amount of it.
Then the event started. The "old guard" arrived and took over. At that point I was supposed to do what I was told, fly the hops with the FNGs that they didn't want to fly with, and keep my mouth shut. I remember how incensed and betrayed I felt when Drew lavished praise on these guys who had done nothing to set up the event but arrive and lord it over everyone else. And as I recall, at the end of the banquet where Drew gave credit to everyone except me, it was Barry who stood up and publicly thanked me for my work.
So, yeah, I felt excluded. I suspect some of you know how that feels as well.
The other event was a friend who came to ARS the next year to come up to speed on learning to fly formation. The "inner circle" took exception to his airplane (limited instrumentation in the back seat) and told him that they wouldn't let him fly. Since the FAA approves his airplane for flight, and since he had been flying the airplane regularly, I think that its basic airworthiness had been proven. So I took that as another example of the exclusionary behavior of the "Yak Pilot's Club". (I also think that he was partly tarred with the brush of being my friend and student.)
So, yes, I think that the RPA could probably do with a little more inclusion and a little less of the Mount Olympus mentality. But maybe it has changed and I am completely off base. If so, then I apologize for dredging up old, obsolete memories.
Lastly, I want everyone to know that, if they need help with any aspect of owning and operating their CJ6A or Yak-52, I will do my best to help. (I am much more knowledgeable on the CJ6A than I am on the -52 but I still have a pretty good handle on both systems and flying -52.)
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)
[url=tel:%2B1.767.617.1365]+1.767.617.1365[/url] (Dominica)
[url=tel:%2B1.916.877.5067]+1.916.877.5067[/url] (USA) | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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