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Key West Regulator

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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

Group:

  

      Any one have a 447 with no battery and  using the Key West regulator?  If so I need help. I have removed the engine  from my plane and forgot where the wires went.  I think the brown wire  goes from the engine down to the negative post on the Key West regulator. I  cannot find any info on the computer. Seems Key West does not have a web page. I  want to make sure I have it right. I definitely want to be sure I can kill the  engine!

  

          

       Ed Diebel         (  FF  62 )



 [quote][b]

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Key West Regulator

 	  DAquaNut(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  Group:

  

      Any one have a 447 with no battery and  using the Key West regulator?  If so I need help. I have removed the engine  from my plane and forgot where the wires went.  I think the brown wire  goes from the engine down to the negative post on the Key West regulator. I  cannot find any info on the computer. Seems Key West does not have a web page. I  want to make sure I have it right. I definitely want to be sure I can kill the  engine!

  

 ï¿½        

 ï¿½     Ed Diebel         (  FF  62 )



 	




Ed:

The brown should go to ground.  The yellow and the yellow/black should go to the input (A/C) to the Key West.  The output (DC) of the Key West would tie into whatever you have that requires the 12V DC.  The brown (ground) going to the negative side of the output of the KW may have been someone's way of getting the engine ground to whatever is being fed by the KW.



For further confusion go to Google and put in "Rotax Wiring Diagram".  It'll make your hair hurt.



Your results may vary.

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

George,            I was the one who wired my firefly originally and have 170 hours on  it.   Do I need to   run    

                           the brown wire from the engine to the airframe?  That is the only one in  question. It seems 

                          Crazy at this point, but I may not have had it right ,all along.

  

                           Ed   Diebel        (FF 62)

  

  

  

  In a message dated 1/22/2012 4:13:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,  gtalexander(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Ed:

The brown should go to ground.  The yellow and the    yellow/black should go to the input (A/C) to the Key West.  The output    (DC) of the Key West would tie into whatever you have that requires the 12V    DC.  The brown (ground) going to the negative side of the output of the    KW may have been someone's way of getting the engine ground to whatever is    being fed by the KW.



For further confusion go to Google and put in    "Rotax Wiring Diagram".  It'll make your hair hurt.



Your results    may vary.



--------

George Alexander

FS II R503     N709FS

http://www.oh2fly.net

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

One thing I seem to  recall....is that the EIS folks in Michigan do not recommend the Key West regulator..Herb



 

 At 03:32 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:

 [quote] 

  

 Group:

  

      Any one have a 447 with no battery and using the Key West regulator?  If so I need help. I have removed the engine from my plane and forgot where the wires went.  I think the brown wire goes from the engine down to the negative post on the Key West regulator. I cannot find any info on the computer. Seems Key West does not have a web page. I want to make sure I have it right. I definitely want to be sure I can kill the engine!

  

          

       Ed Diebel         (  FF 62 )

 

 [b]

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

At 04:53 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  One thing I seem to recall....is that the EIS folks in Michigan do 

not recommend the Key West regulator..Herb



Wow, that's new to me but may be true.  Someone smart one to give 
	


them a call and see if this is true and why they may not like the Key 

West regular.  I've been running one for years, although I do run a battery.

jerryb

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Key West Regulator

Ed:

Iâ€™m not an expert, but I believe that it should be to the airframe.  Every drawing that I have seen shows a common ground (airframe?)  throughout the installation.

A couple of â€œHoweverâ€s thoughâ€¦.

Many installations put a separate grounding strap from the engine to the airframe (a braided strap) and then ground, at a convienant place,  the devices fed by the system.



If the loads off the KW are not too demanding and depending on how they are wired, the brown to the Neg (-) on the KW would be â€œokâ€, not ideal, but â€œokâ€.



As Beauford would say.... "Worth what you paid for it!"  (Who by the way, uses a KW and an EIS.)

 	  DAquaNut(at)aol.com wrote: 	
		  George,        ï¿½   I was the one who wired my firefly originally and have 170 hours on  it.   Do I need to   run    

            ï¿½              the brown wire from the engine to the airframe?  That is the only one in  question. It seems 

            ï¿½             Crazy at this point, but I may not have had it right ,all along.

  

            ï¿½              Ed   Diebel        (FF 62)

  

  

  

  In a message dated 1/22/2012 4:13:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,  gtalexander(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Ed:

The brown should go to ground.  The yellow and the    yellow/black should go to the input (A/C) to the Key West.  The output    (DC) of the Key West would tie into whatever you have that requires the 12V    DC.  The brown (ground) going to the negative side of the output of the    KW may have been someone's way of getting the engine ground to whatever is    being fed by the KW.



For further confusion go to Google and put in    "Rotax Wiring Diagram".  It'll make your hair hurt.



Your results    may vary.

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Key West Regulator

 	  herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: 	
		  One thing I seem to  recall....is that the EIS folks in Michigan do not recommend the Key West regulator..Herb

<snip>

 

 	




I'm not going out to the hangar and look because it's pouring down rain, but I think the Kuntzleman Hot Box comes with a Key West attached. And it works fine with our EIS. However we do have a battery in the system.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:41 am Post subject: Key West Regulator

Just called Sandy at Grand Rapids....Not a big deal...she says that 

if  one uses a Key West, one cannot get a tach signal from the 

alternator leads...Thats all... I think I was having problems setting 

the tach impulse multiplier on my unit when I called several years 

ago.. ?  And likely she asked if I had a Key West Regulator... Herb



At 08:19 AM 1/23/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote:

 > One thing I seem to  recall....is that the EIS folks in Michigan 

 do not recommend the Key West regulator..Herb

 >

 >

 >

I'm not going out to the hangar and look because it's pouring down 

rain, but I think the Kuntzleman Hot Box comes with a Key West 

attached. And it works fine with our EIS. However we do have a 

battery in the system.



--------

Richard Pike

Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org

Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of 

things not seen.

Hebrews 11:1





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364560#364560

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

At 09:39 AM 1/23/2012, Herb Gayheart wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Just called Sandy at Grand Rapids....Not a big deal...she says that if  one uses a Key West, one cannot get a tach signal from the alternator leads...Thats all... I think I was having problems setting the tach impulse multiplier on my unit when I called several years ago.. ?  And likely she asked if I had a Key West Regulator... Herb 	


 I had problems with the tach (a basic lighting coil powered tach) as well with the KW regulator on my Cuyuna.  Seems if there is little or no load on the KW, the voltage is also low so the tach reads low; it needs a certain amount of load before the voltage stabilizes.  I solved the problem by putting a big power resistor with heat sink across the output; this drew enough power for the voltage to stabilize.



 If you had nav lights (I don't) on all the time that would probably be sufficient.



 -Dana

 --

 The only problem with trouble-shooting is that sometimes trouble shoots back.    

    [quote][b]

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

Works on the cheaper rotax regulators also... I think I used a smaller cap however...12k micro farads?  25 volts...something in that neighborhood..? Herb 



 

 At 08:42 PM 1/23/2012, you wrote:

 [quote]Another solution is to put a 50 volt 25,000 uf capacitor in the positive line coming from the regulator. It does two things, it creates a load that stabilizes the voltage and cleans up the "dirt" from creating DC voltage from AC. I use one with the KW on my 582. Should you go this route, be very careful should you need to disconnect it from the system. I had charged mine up while doing system checkout and decided to move it to a different location three months later. Good thing the screwdriver handle was insulated it threw a big spark when I accidentally grounded the screwdriver shaft. 



 Rick Girard



 On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

   At 09:39 AM 1/23/2012, Herb Gayheart wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		   Just called Sandy at Grand Rapids....Not a big deal...she says that if  one uses a Key West, one cannot get a tach signal from the alternator leads...Thats all... I think I was having problems setting the tach impulse multiplier on my unit when I called several years ago.. ?  And likely she asked if I had a Key West Regulator... Herb 	


  I had problems with the tach (a basic lighting coil powered tach) as well with the KW regulator on my Cuyuna.  Seems if there is little or no load on the KW, the voltage is also low so the tach reads low; it needs a certain amount of load before the voltage stabilizes.  I solved the problem by putting a big power resistor with heat sink across the output; this drew enough power for the voltage to stabilize.



  If you had nav lights (I don't) on all the time that would probably be sufficient.



  -Dana

  --

  The only problem with trouble-shooting is that sometimes trouble shoots back.    



  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List



tp://forums.matronics.com



_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[/b] 	
 



 

 -- 

 Zulu Delta

 Mk IIIC

 Thanks, Homer GBYM



 It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 



 

 [b]

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

George,

  

              I  am going to connect the brown wire to the engine, You think that is right and so  do I. If anyone thinks that is incorrect please speak up! 

  

             By the  way out of all the posts directed to my Key West Regulator post,  Yours was  the ONLY one that addressed my problem in regards to the brown wire and I thank  you!!

  

                 Ed Diebel   ( FF 62)

  

  In a message dated 1/23/2012 7:42:30 A.M. Central Standard Time,  gtalexander(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Ed:

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not an expert, but I believe that it should be to the    airframe.  Every drawing that I have seen shows a common ground    (airframe?)  throughout the installation.

A couple of Ã¢â‚¬Å“HoweverÃ¢â‚¬Âs    thoughÃ¢â‚¬Â¦.

Many installations put a separate grounding strap from the    engine to the airframe (a braided strap) and then ground, at a convienant    place,  the devices fed by the system.



If the loads off the KW are    not too demanding and depending on how they are wired, the brown to the Neg    (-) on the KW would be Ã¢â‚¬Å“okÃ¢â‚¬Â, not ideal, but Ã¢â‚¬Å“okÃ¢â‚¬Â.



As Beauford    would say.... "Worth what you paid for it!"  (Who by the way, uses a KW    and an EIS.)



	


 [quote][b]

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:19 am Post subject: Re: Key West Regulator

23jan12



Ed,



On my thundering 447 the brown wire is the ground for the kill circuit for the Ducatti ignition... The kill loop runs from the Ducatii, by way of the Black/yellow wire to the kill switch and by the brown wire to ground. I ground the brown wire to the engine. And I installed a ground strap between the engine and the cage.



My Key West Reg. is powered by the two light loop wires (Yellow and Yellow/black) from the alternator, to the AC inputs. I run the DC neg. to the cage.



Good luck...



Aloha,

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

Do Not Archive

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Key West Regulator

Ed,



I hit the SUBMIT button too quick...



You said "I think the brown wire goes from the engine down to the negative post on the Key West regulator."



I don't think so. I believe the brown wire that is the right length be attached to the case of your engine, is the end point of the kill circuit for the ignition and should run from the case back to the kill switch.



The brown wire has no business anywhere near you Key West Regulator.



I have attached a .pdf  file that is a wiring diagram of my engine...



Aloha,

Engine Electrics 2.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Engine Electrics 2.pdf

Filesize:

54.97 KB

Downloaded:

456 Time(s)

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: Key West Regulator

Henry, Ed, Ground is ground is ground, to paraphrase Gertrude Stein. Grounding the brown wire to the regulator is nothing special as long as the ground continues to the fuselage weldment. There is no special ground for the ignition modules. 

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:56 AM, henry.voris <henry_voris(at)yahoo.com (henry_voris(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "henry.voris" <henry_voris(at)yahoo.com (henry_voris(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 

Ed,

 

 I hit the SUBMIT button too quick...

 

 You said "I think the brown wire goes from the engine down to the negative post on the Key West regulator."

 

 I don't think so. I believe the brown wire that is the right length be attached to the case of your engine, is the end point of the kill circuit for the ignition and should run from the case back to the kill switch.

  

 The brown wire has no business anywhere near you Key West Regulator.

 

 I have attached a .pdf  file that is a wiring diagram of my engine...

 

 Aloha,

 

 --------

 Henry

 Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

 

 Do Not Archive

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364652#364652

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_electrics_2_184.pdf

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: Key West Regulator

Henry,

  

                  I am planning to attach one end of the brown wire to the engine and  the other end to a connector that allows the same brown wire to  continue and attach to a screw on the airframe which seems to me like it will  work the same as a ground strap. Before  I had the brown wire running from  the engine To the neg. terminal on the K W regulator and some how it  worked. Thanks for the response.

  

                 Ed Diebel   ( FF 62 )

  

  In a message dated 1/24/2012 3:21:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,  henry_voris(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Ed,



On my thundering 447 the brown wire is the ground for    the kill circuit for the Ducatti ignition... The kill loop runs from the    Ducatii, by way of the Black/yellow wire to the kill switch and by the brown    wire to ground. I ground the brown wire to the engine. And I installed a    ground strap between the engine and the cage.



My Key West Reg. is    powered by the two light loop wires (Yellow and Yellow/black) from the    alternator, to the AC inputs. I run the DC neg. to the cage.



Good    luck...



Aloha,



--------

Henry

Firefly    Five-Charlie-Bravo



	


 [quote][b]

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Key West Regulator

Ed,



You said... " I am planning to attach one end of the brown wire to the engine and the other end to a connector that allows the same brown wire to continue and attach to a screw on the airframe which seems to me like it will work the same as a ground strap." Yup, sounds like that is a dandy groundstrap, it ties the engine to the airframe just fine... And as our pal Rick so rightly pointed out that "a ground is a ground" and connecting the brown wire to the NEG DC terminal of your regulator would do the same (as long as the NEG DC circuit of the regulator grounds to the airframe somewhere...).



My brown wire is not a groundstrap... My brown wire carries current from the killswitch to the point where it grounds to the case of the engine. My brown wire connects to the case at the right hand bolt that attaches the coil to the case. If your brown wire connects to the case at that same point... it might be a good idea to check out your killswitch circuit. Make sure your wires aren't crossed. Killswitch is a good thing to have... flight critical.



Good Luck,

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

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GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: Key West Regulator

 	  Quote: 	
		   Another solution is to put a 50 volt 25,000 uf capacitor

<snip>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Good thing the screwdriver handle was insulated it threw a big spark when

I accidentally grounded the screwdriver shaft.
	




You could install a high-value resistor across the cap leads. It will bleed

off the charge but not change the function.



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

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