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max8992
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142
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 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety o |
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Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we’ll never know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on the tail… BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in the luggage on the back). For sure it didn’t happened at 130Kt IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning), verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner) will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mardi 7 février 2012 23:16
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CCE644.6110FE50[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! 
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c |
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_________________
Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH |
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety o |
|
|
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail – no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW – when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman)
We too. I wrote “God” to give an absolute & universal meaning “The Captain is The First of All in his /her plane”.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care. Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now – good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we’ll never know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on the tail… BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in the luggage on the back). For sure it didn’t happened at 130Kt IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning), verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner) will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mardi 7 février 2012 23:16
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:DBFED466DEC645C6AECEEB8A3715D854(at)Asus[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c |
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
| Description: |
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| Filesize: |
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| Viewed: |
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max8992
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety o |
|
|
Raimo,
Many thanks for your good wishes! Yes we like our small toy, but it’s not so new as we bought it when it had already ~300 hours… It has been built by a good fellow named Laurent Houssette and his first flight was in 2003!
James Bond was Brit, not French (OSS117 is French). I hope never have to try the T-bar version (specially at 130 Kt) but if it happens, then I’ll do my best also to save me and my and I and the passenger and the plane (typical British expression) J
Have good flight in your cold but wonderful country, I hope to go over there sometime!
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mercredi 8 février 2012 22:33
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail – no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW – when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman)
We too. I wrote “God” to give an absolute & universal meaning “The Captain is The First of All in his /her plane”.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care. Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now – good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we’ll never know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on the tail… BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in the luggage on the back). For sure it didn’t happened at 130Kt IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning), verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner) will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mardi 7 février 2012 23:16
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CCE6BA.FF184D30[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
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Max8992
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:10 am Post subject: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety o |
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|
Max
Laurent have to be a real fast builder: KIT # 560 and completed 2003. I have a KIT # 417 and completed 1999 – 2007. I assume he build it only a year or two?
***
I wrote “French James Bond “ because I do not believe original JB is not so brave he could separate by purpose Europa´s door during flight (like you did but one only). Now I know – he will be OSS117. I assume you are OSS116.
***
Welcome to Finland – F-PMLH would be 2nd F-registered Europa in EFTP (attachment).
If you are going to fly w/o doors, I recommend you to come when midsummer...
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
do not archive
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:40 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Raimo,
Many thanks for your good wishes! Yes we like our small toy, but it’s not so new as we bought it when it had already ~300 hours… It has been built by a good fellow named Laurent Houssette and his first flight was in 2003!
James Bond was Brit, not French (OSS117 is French). I hope never have to try the T-bar version (specially at 130 Kt) but if it happens, then I’ll do my best also to save me and my and I and the passenger and the plane (typical British expression) J
Have good flight in your cold but wonderful country, I hope to go over there sometime!
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mercredi 8 février 2012 22:33
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail – no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW – when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman)
We too. I wrote “God” to give an absolute & universal meaning “The Captain is The First of All in his /her plane”.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care. Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now – good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we’ll never know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on the tail… BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in the luggage on the back). For sure it didn’t happened at 130Kt IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning), verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner) will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mardi 7 février 2012 23:16
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:D204E86FFB124227AAAC7132DBD34E5D(at)Asus[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
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max8992
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:14 am Post subject: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety o |
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Raimo,
Do you talk about the flying metal wing on the picture? I saw it during convention of home built planes in Blois but didn’t met the guy ! Impressive indeed.
Laurent had a partner to help him and they spend together 2700 hours to build F-PMLH over 28 months. Amazing, I don’t when or even if he was sleeping at night assuming he was at the same time manager of a restaurant in Rueil Malmaison…
For sure it wasn’t intentional to leave the door during take-off. And there is a couple of movies on OSS 117 who is a stupid basic macho… I hope I’m not
Even with the two doors closed, I won’t come (if I can make it) in winter or cold weather.
Take care and have good flights.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : jeudi 9 février 2012 12:07
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max
Laurent have to be a real fast builder: KIT # 560 and completed 2003. I have a KIT # 417 and completed 1999 – 2007. I assume he build it only a year or two?
***
I wrote “French James Bond “ because I do not believe original JB is not so brave he could separate by purpose Europa´s door during flight (like you did but one only). Now I know – he will be OSS117. I assume you are OSS116.
***
Welcome to Finland – F-PMLH would be 2nd F-registered Europa in EFTP (attachment).
If you are going to fly w/o doors, I recommend you to come when midsummer...
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
do not archive
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:40 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Raimo,
Many thanks for your good wishes! Yes we like our small toy, but it’s not so new as we bought it when it had already ~300 hours… It has been built by a good fellow named Laurent Houssette and his first flight was in 2003!
James Bond was Brit, not French (OSS117 is French). I hope never have to try the T-bar version (specially at 130 Kt) but if it happens, then I’ll do my best also to save me and my and I and the passenger and the plane (typical British expression) J
Have good flight in your cold but wonderful country, I hope to go over there sometime!
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mercredi 8 février 2012 22:33
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail – no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW – when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman)
We too. I wrote “God” to give an absolute & universal meaning “The Captain is The First of All in his /her plane”.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care. Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now – good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we’ll never know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on the tail… BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in the luggage on the back). For sure it didn’t happened at 130Kt IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning), verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner) will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mardi 7 février 2012 23:16
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CCE73B.C6430730[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
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Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH |
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety o |
|
|
Max
I do.
It is F-PDHV. A man who is looking a minor problem in the nose gear is the designer /builder /pilot Bart Verhees.
With a small Subaru engine it cruises 160 mph = 140 kts = good company for Europas.
First time ever I saw a situation the men from tower came out and wanted to take pics about a flying machine.
When seeing airborne, nothing is nearer an UFO than this one.
http://www.verheesengineering.com/pix/delta001.jpg
Other man is Mr. Karel Vranken, Europa F-PKRL builder /pilot.
***
I do not know a real reason but everybody wants to visit us. So we get some air traffic here and see many IFOs (interesting flying objects) like this Delta, Europas, AN-2, DC-3, Rotorway Exec, Lancairs, countless amounts of seaplanes, skiplanes and amfibios´s. The sugar on the bottom is so far Casa C-295 15th of August 2010.
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
do not archive
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:10 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Raimo,
Do you talk about the flying metal wing on the picture? I saw it during convention of home built planes in Blois but didn’t met the guy ! Impressive indeed.
Laurent had a partner to help him and they spend together 2700 hours to build F-PMLH over 28 months. Amazing, I don’t when or even if he was sleeping at night assuming he was at the same time manager of a restaurant in Rueil Malmaison…
For sure it wasn’t intentional to leave the door during take-off. And there is a couple of movies on OSS 117 who is a stupid basic macho… I hope I’m not
Even with the two doors closed, I won’t come (if I can make it) in winter or cold weather.
Take care and have good flights.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : jeudi 9 février 2012 12:07
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max
Laurent have to be a real fast builder: KIT # 560 and completed 2003. I have a KIT # 417 and completed 1999 – 2007. I assume he build it only a year or two?
***
I wrote “French James Bond “ because I do not believe original JB is not so brave he could separate by purpose Europa´s door during flight (like you did but one only). Now I know – he will be OSS117. I assume you are OSS116.
***
Welcome to Finland – F-PMLH would be 2nd F-registered Europa in EFTP (attachment).
If you are going to fly w/o doors, I recommend you to come when midsummer...
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
do not archive
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:40 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Raimo,
Many thanks for your good wishes! Yes we like our small toy, but it’s not so new as we bought it when it had already ~300 hours… It has been built by a good fellow named Laurent Houssette and his first flight was in 2003!
James Bond was Brit, not French (OSS117 is French). I hope never have to try the T-bar version (specially at 130 Kt) but if it happens, then I’ll do my best also to save me and my and I and the passenger and the plane (typical British expression) J
Have good flight in your cold but wonderful country, I hope to go over there sometime!
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mercredi 8 février 2012 22:33
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail – no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW – when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman)
We too. I wrote “God” to give an absolute & universal meaning “The Captain is The First of All in his /her plane”.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care. Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now – good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we’ll never know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on the tail… BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in the luggage on the back). For sure it didn’t happened at 130Kt IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning), verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner) will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mardi 7 février 2012 23:16
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:233EA958BCAB4F21A78438FF42B469D1(at)Asus[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: Europa-List: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety o |
|
|
All
one more and my final statement to this topic:
I checked the statistics and found we only in this very smallest aviation country have had at least two fatal accidents during last few years because of suddenly and unintentionally canopy opening. So that is a serious thing, is not it?
1) Colibri MB-2 OH-U373, several minutes (10) after take-off, one fatal. Reason: the canopy closing mechanism was not properly locked (!)
2) EV-97 Eurostar OH-U430, couple of minutes after take-off, 2 fatals: Reason: the canopy closing mechanism could not keep the canopy closed when there was a medium turbulent weather. There was not a real lock, just a spring like we have in Europa (!). Eurostar had made a mandatory modification, but it was not installed yet to this plane unfortunately.
OK, Max has told us it can be when flying Europa just a refreshing experience. But there is no quarantee for that ! I assume also buying components, building, painting and assembling a new door is not a target or a joy for anybody during a flying season.
I bet it is difficult or impossible to find ANY accident, where fatal(s) have occurred because canopy has been secured and it was not openable by outsiders until too late. Canopy /door securing does not mean it is an unopenable safe deposit room or box!
I know also people who ever never use safety belts in their cars. They are sure they will be drowned when they some day decide to drive direct to the nearest river or lake and a car is there upsidedown, of course.
Raimo Toivio
OH-XRT
FINLAND
do archive!
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:10 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Raimo,
Do you talk about the flying metal wing on the picture? I saw it during convention of home built planes in Blois but didn’t met the guy ! Impressive indeed.
Laurent had a partner to help him and they spend together 2700 hours to build F-PMLH over 28 months. Amazing, I don’t when or even if he was sleeping at night assuming he was at the same time manager of a restaurant in Rueil Malmaison…
For sure it wasn’t intentional to leave the door during take-off. And there is a couple of movies on OSS 117 who is a stupid basic macho… I hope I’m not
Even with the two doors closed, I won’t come (if I can make it) in winter or cold weather.
Take care and have good flights.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : jeudi 9 février 2012 12:07
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max
Laurent have to be a real fast builder: KIT # 560 and completed 2003. I have a KIT # 417 and completed 1999 – 2007. I assume he build it only a year or two?
***
I wrote “French James Bond “ because I do not believe original JB is not so brave he could separate by purpose Europa´s door during flight (like you did but one only). Now I know – he will be OSS117. I assume you are OSS116.
***
Welcome to Finland – F-PMLH would be 2nd F-registered Europa in EFTP (attachment).
If you are going to fly w/o doors, I recommend you to come when midsummer...
Raimo
OH-XRT
FINLAND
do not archive
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:40 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Raimo,
Many thanks for your good wishes! Yes we like our small toy, but it’s not so new as we bought it when it had already ~300 hours… It has been built by a good fellow named Laurent Houssette and his first flight was in 2003!
James Bond was Brit, not French (OSS117 is French). I hope never have to try the T-bar version (specially at 130 Kt) but if it happens, then I’ll do my best also to save me and my and I and the passenger and the plane (typical British expression) J
Have good flight in your cold but wonderful country, I hope to go over there sometime!
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mercredi 8 février 2012 22:33
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Max,
great.
After your thrilling experience you are so cool, that you only
- removed the big buttons
and
- pay more attention!
What if you have next time 130 kts AND that happens because you have earlier some other difficulties like your situational awareness has almost gone (hasle in the cockpit)?
***
Impact on the tail – no damages at all?
***
JUST WONDER HOW MANY OF US HAS LOST OR HAS ALMOST LOST HIS DOOR DURING FLIGHT???
During past years I have noticed several cases there and there. Most will never publish them. How many extra doors Europa Aircraft have sold?
With simple electrics and more simple pip-pins that will never happen.
BTW – when the door is open and the safety belts are tight I could not reach the door which is up until now, when my pip-pins have a lanyard...
***
After reading your story I got an influence Europa is flyable without doors as a convertible /like Corvette with T-bar-roof ?
Have anybody tried that (to remove both doors on the ground or inflight like French James Bond)?
If safe that would be fun!
***
captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman)
We too. I wrote “God” to give an absolute & universal meaning “The Captain is The First of All in his /her plane”.
As a layman we do not believe somebody is watching us. Or taking care. Or nothing.
That is a principal reason for example for those funny pip-pins.
I have to do my best by myself to get a max safety. I try to be better.
***
Obviously you like your plane. Almost new and already 400 hrs.
I wish you a smooth engine sound over Massif Central,
Raimo (full of pip-pins now – good night)
OH-XRT
FINLAND
From: Max Cointe (mcointe(at)free.fr)
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Hi There All,
We experienced a door opening during the third take-off after we bought F-PMLH! Did the copilot (also co-owner) shacked the handle by accident with elbow, did the DLO7 went out before closing we’ll never know! But passing 500Ft over the forest close to the strip, we had a big stress time when the door departed and got an impact somewhere back on the tail… BUT no stall, no asymmetric drag under full power on climb, no more at 80-90 Kt on the circuit (we had to make a standard pattern because of traffic on the field) before we landed without trouble. As we are partisan of no-paper for flight (iPad including maps and VACs + Garmin 296) no paper spread over (redundant paper maps are in the luggage on the back). For sure it didn’t happened at 130Kt IAS (our current speed) nor at 8 500 Ft (altitude needed when flying over Massif Central) but I guess that main danger remain the pilot reaction and panic mode! We may have been lucky as the impact on the tail did not affect rudder or direction, but believe it or not but this incident gave us an BIG trust on qualities of flight of the plane! And a VERY BIG motivation on executing the check list: verify the DLO7 before jumping aboard (yes I can jump in because of gymnastic every morning), verify doors closing front (easy) and rear (more difficult but doable when alone may be also because gymnastic every morning) and / or teach passenger or copilot to verify your side, is part of the check list and done at each flight! (The only mod was to remove the big buttons on the handles to avoid inattentive pull-up).
This is our experience, no a lesson and the captain is the boss (not God as I’m layman) in his plane when flying but I (and my co-owner) will not add electric and mechanical complexity here, but certainly pay more attention, say the same one I pay when I sign the approval after executing the maintenance.
Good flights and blue sky as someone use to sign his messages.
Max Cointe
F-PMLH TriGear Kit #560
912ULS Airmaster 400 hours
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Raimo Toivio
Envoyé : mardi 7 février 2012 23:16
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earlier: deformation of the canopy)
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:F31CB601DCF4436BB68899CD0ABF1880(at)Asus[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
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