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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: Europas in the UK |
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I am still in discussion with the Norwegian CAA regarding their ban on flying at night or in IMC with Norwegian registered Experimental class aircraft (just entered the 4th year, their response time is sloooow).
The ban is imposed on all of the aircrafts by conditions in the permits to fly, but according to the best legal expertise, it is not legal to impose such a ban generally unless it is made part of the formal aviation regulations. If not in the regulations, each individual aircraft must be considered on its own merits before placing such restrictions on it. Our CAA says that they have considered each, which is b.s.
In support of my line of argument (that each aircraft must be considered individually), I would very much appreciate information on the following:
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>Approx. how many Europas are flying in the UK?
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>How many accumulated flight hours?
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>How many hours on the aircraft having flown the most? Which engine does it have?
The reason for asking only about UK statistics is that our CAA is looking more to what the UK does than other countries. By the way, any development in the PFA regarding this issue – there was some discussion about this a few years ago, wasn’t it?
I have looked through all the reports on the 84 Europa accidents in the UK AAIB web site – nothing there to support that a correctly built Europa with 912ULS is likely to have an engine problem!
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
[quote][b]
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John Wighton
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Europas in the UK |
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Svein,
The UK situation may not be the best place to look, we have only VFR daytime privileges when flying Permit A/C.
The LAA are campaigning to allow IFR flight but, if eventually allowed, there will be limitations on the aircraft equipment. My guess is very few of the LAA fleet will be suitably equipped. But new builds will know what to use to ensure compliance.
The US is the place where Experimental a/c are routinely allowed IFR/night privileges. Maybe the hours and accident stats are available from the EAA?
Regards
John
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD |
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brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: Europas in the UK |
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Svein,
UK Homebuilt Aircraft on a Permit to Fly are daylight only VFR as you know. The LAA (formally PFA) is still actively considering a case to the UK CAA for IFR operations for this category. No date has been given for a determination. It might be better to await the outcome of this work.
Unfortunately, we do not have accurate operating records of all UK Europas and the data you request would be quite time consuming to produce. We do have records of approximately 120 flying Europas but that is only from current club members who have taken the trouble to pass on this data.
Regards
Brian Davies
The Europa Club, membership sec.
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen
Sent: 22 February 2012 06:03
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Europas in the UK
I am still in discussion with the Norwegian CAA regarding their ban on flying at night or in IMC with Norwegian registered Experimental class aircraft (just entered the 4th year, their response time is sloooow).
The ban is imposed on all of the aircrafts by conditions in the permits to fly, but according to the best legal expertise, it is not legal to impose such a ban generally unless it is made part of the formal aviation regulations. If not in the regulations, each individual aircraft must be considered on its own merits before placing such restrictions on it. Our CAA says that they have considered each, which is b.s.
In support of my line of argument (that each aircraft must be considered individually), I would very much appreciate information on the following:
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>Approx. how many Europas are flying in the UK?
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>How many accumulated flight hours?
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>How many hours on the aircraft having flown the most? Which engine does it have?
The reason for asking only about UK statistics is that our CAA is looking more to what the UK does than other countries. By the way, any development in the PFA regarding this issue – there was some discussion about this a few years ago, wasn’t it?
I have looked through all the reports on the 84 Europa accidents in the UK AAIB web site – nothing there to support that a correctly built Europa with 912ULS is likely to have an engine problem!
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: Europas in the UK |
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Sven, You could get a good approximation by going to the
Europa website and looking at the list of all flying
Europas Some of Hesse have up to date hours flown, some
have hours flown last updated several years ago, whilst
others have never bothered to supply any hours. If you are
prepared to do the work, you could update the second
category on a proportional basis, and provide hours for
the last category on the assumption that they will be a
similar group to the first two categories.
Alternatively you could contact Andy Draper at
the LAA and ask him whether there is the possibility of
him giving you the precise data, as the LAA require hours
flown for every annual renewal.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 07:02:39 +0100
"Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>
wrote:
| Quote: | I am still in discussion with the Norwegian CAA
regarding their ban on
flying at night or in IMC with Norwegian registered
Experimental class
aircraft (just entered the 4th year, their response time
is sloooow).
The ban is imposed on all of the aircrafts by
conditions in the permits to
fly, but according to the best legal expertise, it is
not legal to impose
such a ban generally unless it is made part of the
formal aviation
regulations. If not in the regulations, each individual
aircraft must be
considered on its own merits before placing such
restrictions on it. Our
CAA says that they have considered each, which is b.s.
In support of my line of argument (that each aircraft
must be considered
individually), I would very much appreciate information
on the following:
- Approx. how many Europas are flying in the
UK?
- How many accumulated flight hours?
- How many hours on the aircraft having flown
the most? Which
engine does it have?
The reason for asking only about UK statistics is that
our CAA is looking
more to what the UK does than other countries. By the
way, any development
in the PFA regarding this issue - there was some
discussion about this a few
years ago, wasn't it?
I have looked through all the reports on the 84 Europa
accidents in the UK
AAIB web site - nothing there to support that a
correctly built Europa with
912ULS is likely to have an engine problem!
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Trevpond(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: Europas in the UK |
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Sven,
G info at the CAA has this information, i.e. hours flown for individual aircraft please see this link which will give you all Europas registered in the UK with all their information:
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=europa
best regards
Trev
G-LINN
In a message dated 22/02/2012 11:49:50 GMT Standard Time, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk writes:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
Sven, You could get a good approximation by going to the
Europa website and looking at the list of all flying
Europas Some of Hesse have up to date hours flown, some
have hours flown last updated several years ago, whilst
others have never bothered to supply any hours. If you are
prepared to do the work, you could update the second
category on a proportional basis, and provide hours for
the last category on the assumption that they will be a
similar group to the first two categories.
Alternatively you could contact Andy Draper at
the LAA and ask him whether there is the possibility of
him giving you the precise data, as the LAA require hours
flown for every annual renewal.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 07:02:39 +0100
"Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no>
wrote:
| Quote: | I am still in discussion with the Norwegian CAA
regarding their ban on
flying at night or in IMC with Norwegian registered
Experimental class
aircraft (just entered the 4th year, their response time
is sloooow).
The ban is imposed on all of the aircrafts by
conditions in the permits to
fly, but according to the best legal expertise, it is
not legal to impose
such a ban generally unless it is made part of the
formal aviation
regulations. If not in the regulations, each individual
aircraft must be
considered on its own merits before placing such
restrictions on it. Our
CAA says that they have considered each, which is b.s.
In support of my line of argument (that each aircraft
must be considered
individually), I would very much appreciate information
on the following:
- Approx. how many Europas are flying in the
UK?
- How many accumulated flight hours?
- How many hours on the aircraft having flown
the most? Which
engine does it have?
The reason for asking only about UK statistics is that
our CAA is looking
more to what the UK does than other countries. By the
way, any development
in the PFA regarding this issue - there was some
discussion about this a few
years ago, wasn't it?
I have looked through all the reports on the 84 Europa
accidents in the UK
AAIB web site - nothing there to support that a
correctly built Europa with
912ULS is likely to have an engine problem!
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
the ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p;
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Ivor Phillips
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:37 am Post subject: Europas in the UK |
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The CAA have my hours flown 100 less then they actually are, mine was last updated 2010
so don't reflect current hours in my case,
ivor
G-IVER
On 22 February 2012 14:04, <Trevpond(at)aol.com (Trevpond(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] Sven,
G info at the CAA has this information, i.e. hours flown for individual aircraft please see this link which will give you all Europas registered in the UK with all their information:
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=europa
best regards
Trev
G-LINN
In a message dated 22/02/2012 11:49:50 GMT Standard Time, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) writes:
| Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)>
Sven, You could get a good approximation by going to the
Europa website and looking at the list of all flying
Europas Some of Hesse have up to date hours flown, some
have hours flown last updated several years ago, whilst
others have never bothered to supply any hours. If you are
prepared to do the work, you could update the second
category on a proportional basis, and provide hours for
the last category on the assumption that they will be a
similar group to the first two categories.
Alternatively you could contact Andy Draper at
the LAA and ask him whether there is the possibility of
him giving you the precise data, as the LAA require hours
flown for every annual renewal.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 07:02:39 +0100
"Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no (sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no)>
wrote:
| Quote: | I am still in discussion with the Norwegian CAA
>regarding their ban on
|
| Quote: | flying at night or in IMC with Norwegian registered
Experimental class
aircraft (just entered the 4th year, their response time
is sloooow).
>
|
| Quote: | The ban is imposed on all of the aircrafts by
conditions in the permits to
fly, but according to the best legal expertise, it is
not legal to impose
such a ban generally unless it is made part of the
>formal aviation
|
| Quote: | regulations. If not in the regulations, each individual
aircraft must be
considered on its own merits before placing such
restrictions on it. Our
CAA says that they have considered each, which is b.s.
>
|
| Quote: |
In support of my line of argument (that each aircraft
must be considered
individually), I would very much appreciate information
on the following:
>
|
| Quote: | - Approx. how many Europas are flying in the
UK?
- How many accumulated flight hours?
- How many hours on the aircraft having flown
the most? Which
> engine does it have?
|
| Quote: |
The reason for asking only about UK statistics is that
our CAA is looking
more to what the UK does than other countries. By the
way, any development
> in the PFA regarding this issue - there was some
|
| Quote: | discussion about this a few
years ago, wasn't it?
I have looked through all the reports on the 84 Europa
accidents in the UK
> AAIB web site - nothing there to support that a
|
| Quote: | correctly built Europa with
912ULS is likely to have an engine problem!
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
>
|
| Quote: | the ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p;
|
|
| Quote: |
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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