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Tie bar recess

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jglazener

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Schoonhoven, Netherlands

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:13 am Post subject: Tie bar recess

For some reason I have been supplied by Europa with a cockpit module which does not have a recess in the rear tunnel for the tie bar. At the time Roger said something about it being an older module, but I see pictures of others with much older kits who do seem to have it. Its certainly not covered in the manual I have and that´s from 2006.



See http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=100054



Anyway, I am working through a list of things to do before I bond on the top, and I want to get this squared away before then. Ány good ideas on what I should do? Can I just cut it out, or do I need to build up the underside somehow to get to the same configuration as normally delivered from the factory? Could someone also measure up the exact position and dimension of the recess for me?



Help appreciated!



Jeroen

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:47 am Post subject: Tie bar recess

Mine is one of the older ones, where you cut the slot yourself. It was a

straightforward process

Marking the centerline of the tie bar and then cutting the slot with a

hacksaw blade,

then sanding just enough to get the bar to line up correctly. Afterwards I

glassed under the bar

to create a pocket with the bar sitting in it. Filled that pocket with flox

and then glassed over the top

which captures the bar in the flox between the glass layups.



Regards craig

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 780

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:02 am Post subject: Tie bar recess

Hi Jeroen 

 	Although my cockpit module did have the recess, if it did not it would have not been too much more work to get the tie bar stuck in place. 

 	Here's the procedure I used: 

 	http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86943 

 	BTW even though Alan and I tried hard to get the holes drilled perpendicular, they were not perfect. I used the self aligning cup washers to rectify errors. You can follow what I did that didn't work out as well as I had hoped and see what could have been done to do a better job. 

 	Ron Parigoris    [quote][b]

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Tie bar recess

I built my kit 10 yrs ago and the tie bar was an-interbuild upgrade.



No big deal to cut a slot in the rear tunnel, just make only a few mm

larger in width and depth than absolutely needed since the tunnel

 is structural for the lengthwise flexing load. I did not flox the rod

into the structure and would defer to Bud as to whether that is a 

good idea or not.



BTW, the lateral attach points and bolts of the rod were the absolutely

most difficult part of the entire kit since it was a late addition and there

was no room for my fingers behind the seat/tank back.

_________________
Ira N224XS

jglazener

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Schoonhoven, Netherlands

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Tie bar recess

Thanks for all your replies. If I understand it all correctly, there is no reason to cut the slot before the top goes on, which was my main concern. Better to do it later and with the tie bar to ensure best fit.



Right, that means that tomorrow the top goes on! Fingers crossed...

_________________
Jeroen

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: Tie bar recess

Jeroen,



I may not be privy to all the other comments you've received; however, as must have been apparent from the photos I sent you off-list, I cut the tie bar recess AND installed the tie bar BEFORE bonding on the top. This means of course that I set the wing incidence before bonding on the top. I did so on purpose in order to avoid the awkwardness and difficulty I imagined if I were to do this work after the bonding of the top. 

I felt that I could change the order build because I had a great deal of confidence that the support cradle for the lower fuselage was keeping the fuselage aligned and true...I also clecoed the fuselage top securely in place before setting the angle of incidence of the wings. As I had hoped, everything remains aligned and true.

Incidentally, by holding off until the last possible moment to bond on the top, I found that I was able to accomplish A LOT of tasks relating to wiring, antennas, etc. aft of the baggage bay and avoid the challenges of limited access thru the "D" panel.

just my 2 cents worth of experience,

Fred



On May 4, 2012, at 11:21 AM, jglazener wrote:

[quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl (j.glazener(at)planet.nl)>



Thanks for all your replies. If I understand it all correctly, there is no reason to cut the slot before the top goes on, which was my main concern. Better to do it later and with the tie bar to ensure best fit.



Right, that means that tomorrow the top goes on! Fingers crossed...



--------

Jeroen



http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165



[b]

gholland(at)content-strea
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: Tie bar recess

Jereon Hi!

I did the same as Fred and for the same reasons. My bottom fuselage half was rigid in it's cradle. It all worked out well.

Another option!

Regards

Gerry



do not archive

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: Tie bar recess

Jeoren-



Delay putting the top on as long as you can.  Any work you can do before it is on is MUCH easier without it, including the tie bar.  The instructions are very clear that you put the top on early but the practice in the US has been to delay it.  As far as I know, it has never created a problem.  Get as much done to the halves as you can before you bond them!



Jim Puglise

Europa 283JL

Punta Gorda, FL 



From: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, May 4, 2012 2:21:23 PM

Subject: Re: Tie bar recess



--> Europa-List message posted by: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>



Thanks for all your replies. If I understand it all correctly, there is no reason to cut the slot before the top goes on, which was my main concern. Better to do it later and with the tie bar to ensure best fit.



Right, that means that tomorrow the top goes on! Fingers crossed...



--------

Jeroen



http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372398#372398



 [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:23 am Post subject: Tie bar recess

Jeroen

DON't DO IT! 

It definitely IS best to cut the slot before the top goes on, fit the top using Clecos when necessary for alignment but leave it off when working inside.

You should also set up the tailplane deflections at this time. adjusting tailplane travel is near impossible with the top on!

Graham

        From: jglazener <j.glazener(at)planet.nl>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, 4 May 2012, 19:21

 Subject: Re: Tie bar recess

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "jglazener" <j.glazener(at)planet.nl (j.glazener(at)planet.nl)>



Thanks for all your replies. If I understand it all correctly, there is no reason to cut the slot before the top goes on, which was my main concern. Better to do  it later and with the tie bar to ensure best fit.



Right, that means that tomorrow the top goes on! Fingers crossed...



--------

Jeroen



http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372398#372398

p;                 -Matt Dralle, Libution" =======



 

 

  

 [quote][b]

jglazener

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Schoonhoven, Netherlands

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Tie bar recess

Thanks all!



I have in the meantime gone ahead and made the slot.



http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=79981



It is indeed more hassle than I thought, so a good thing. I also found out that through no fault of my own, I had actually shaped the LG ribs to the exact size needed for clearance. A useful exception to the (Europa) rule that things go wrong by themselves, but not right.



I´m having a good rethink on the bonding issue. The main attraction is that with the tail twist I have I can get that issue put to bed once and for all and not keep worrying about it (which I do). I understand the advantage of keeping it open, though I have been busy the last half year trying to cover all my bases, including the tailplane travel. And I know, as soon as the adhesive is dry I will think of something I missed.. Agree about the manual being too quick with bonding. In fact they even want you to put the MLG in after bonding. I really pity the lost souls who ended up doing that. 



regards, Jeroen

_________________
Jeroen

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165

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