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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
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Just back from a run with the forward gear leg slot cover removed. I ran the same test pattern as my earlier flight of the day to get reasonable comparison data. OAT was warmer (80) on the second run however. I have a stock Van’s engine and Hartzell prop.
Climb out (full throttle climb, 140kts, to 6500’. CHTs 10-15 degrees cooler with the slot cover removed. With the cover on #6 at 430, then #5 at 420 and the rest at 400 or below. With the cover off #6 hottest at 420, #5 at 410, rest below 400.
CHTs in level flight – not much difference, perhaps slightly cooler with the cover off. CHTs range from 370 to 390.
Oil temp – I have had the oil air butterfly door full open for climb, and perhaps half shut in level flight to keep oil temp around 190 or so. If anything I would say there is less air for the cooler with the cover off – but no practical difference. I suspect this reflects a reduce pressure drop across the cooler with the cover off as the lower cowl exit area has more air flow. I did not use the Van’s oil mount - I have the cooler mounted horizontally on the firewall.
Speed. 6500’, 23.5”, 2400 RPM ROP, TAS 184kts cover on, 181kts cover off.
LOP run, 6500’, 23.5”, 2350 RPM, TAS 168kts cover on (12.2gph), 170kts cover off(12.5gph). I suspect this result reflects the slightly higher fuel flow for the second data run.
11.5 hours on the 10 now. Here are a few notes for those getting ready for first flight:
<![if !supportLists]>1. <![endif]>Tighten the nose gear nut after the first couple of landings. I did mine at 9 hours and it was way loose. The 9th hour landing nose gear feedback (shimmy) was pronounced.
<![if !supportLists]>2. <![endif]>While there has been a lot of discussion on the list about greasing the prop, recommend you at least do the “after the first hour” greasing as discussed in the Hartwell manual.
<![if !supportLists]>3. <![endif]>I have a GTN-650 and a PS Engineering Audio panel. It turns out Garmin has a software problem that screws up mic audio gain if you use one of these panels. There is a fix, but you have to go to a Garmin dealer to get it (and then it still does not work as good as it should). I’d still much rather have an updated GX-60 and a SL-30 combo instead of this over priced box.
<![if !supportLists]>4. <![endif]>I’m on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings. They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right. First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants and fairing off the ball is dead center.
<![if !supportLists]>5. <![endif]>Rigging. It took six months of chasing my tail to get the rigging right on the 8A (easier once I broke the code). The 10 was dead on right out of the box.
<![if !supportLists]>6. <![endif]>Elevator trim. Remember that half way in not neutral. Make sure you know where neutral really is on the panel, start there and then figure out your setting you want for takeoff.
28.5 more hours and then a long awaited western trip this fall.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:53 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lower cowl gear leg slot
Thanks.
First 9 hours I had a plate installed. I do a few hours without it and see if there is any difference.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of bob-tcw
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:38 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot
Carl, I left the nose gear leg opening....open. Cooling has been fine
Bob Newman
N541RV
70hrs
From: Carl Froehlich (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot
For you that have your planes flying, did you put a plate in on the lower cowl to cover the gear leg slot forward of the gear leg or do you just leave it open?
Carl
9 hours – still tweaking the gear leg fairings01234567890123456789012
[quote][b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
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RE #4:
"4. I’m on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg
fairings. They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get
right. First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the
right side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the
ball was in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the
pants and fairing off the ball is dead center. "
I've found that a jab of the rudder pedal one way or the other
will often leave it settled in at a new trim point. I've also
had happen to me, and others have as well, the nosewheel doesn't
trail perfectly straight. Some of this will likely affect
your ability to get the ball to center all of the time. I'm
guessing that with the nosewheel tightened up well so that it
doesn't shimmy, it has some stiction that keeps it in trail
at whatever angle, so the stab of the rudder pedal may or may not
shift the nosewheel to a new stiction point. At any rate, having
rudder trim makes it easy to trim out, but I definitely don't
ALWAYS have the same neutral rudder trim position.
Tim
On 6/17/2012 6:11 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
| Quote: | Just back from a run with the forward gear leg slot cover removed. I
ran the same test pattern as my earlier flight of the day to get
reasonable comparison data. OAT was warmer (80) on the second run
however. I have a stock Van’s engine and Hartzell prop.
Climb out (full throttle climb, 140kts, to 6500’. CHTs 10-15 degrees
cooler with the slot cover removed. With the cover on #6 at 430, then
#5 at 420 and the rest at 400 or below. With the cover off #6 hottest
at 420, #5 at 410, rest below 400.
CHTs in level flight – not much difference, perhaps slightly cooler with
the cover off. CHTs range from 370 to 390.
Oil temp – I have had the oil air butterfly door full open for climb,
and perhaps half shut in level flight to keep oil temp around 190 or
so. If anything I would say there is less air for the cooler with the
cover off – but no practical difference. I suspect this reflects a
reduce pressure drop across the cooler with the cover off as the lower
cowl exit area has more air flow. I did not use the Van’s oil mount -
I have the cooler mounted horizontally on the firewall.
Speed. 6500’, 23.5”, 2400 RPM ROP, TAS 184kts cover on, 181kts cover off.
LOP run, 6500’, 23.5”, 2350 RPM, TAS 168kts cover on (12.2gph), 170kts
cover off(12.5gph). I suspect this result reflects the slightly higher
fuel flow for the second data run.
11.5 hours on the 10 now. Here are a few notes for those getting ready
for first flight:
1.Tighten the nose gear nut after the first couple of landings. I did
mine at 9 hours and it was way loose. The 9^th hour landing nose gear
feedback (shimmy) was pronounced.
2.While there has been a lot of discussion on the list about greasing
the prop, recommend you at least do the “after the first hour” greasing
as discussed in the Hartwell manual.
3.I have a GTN-650 and a PS Engineering Audio panel. It turns out
Garmin has a software problem that screws up mic audio gain if you use
one of these panels. There is a fix, but you have to go to a Garmin
dealer to get it (and then it still does not work as good as it
should). I’d still much rather have an updated GX-60 and a SL-30 combo
instead of this over priced box.
4.I’m on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings.
They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right.
First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right
side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was
in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants
and fairing off the ball is dead center.
5.Rigging. It took six months of chasing my tail to get the rigging
right on the 8A (easier once I broke the code). The 10 was dead on
right out of the box.
6.Elevator trim. Remember that half way in not neutral. Make sure you
know where neutral really is on the panel, start there and then figure
out your setting you want for takeoff.
28.5 more hours and then a long awaited western trip this fall.
Carl
*From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl Froehlich
*Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:53 PM
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* RE: Lower cowl gear leg slot
Thanks.
First 9 hours I had a plate installed. I do a few hours without it and
see if there is any difference.
Carl
*From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *bob-tcw
*Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:38 PM
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
*Subject:* Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot
Carl, I left the nose gear leg opening....open. Cooling has been fine
Bob Newman
N541RV
70hrs
*From:*Carl Froehlich <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
*Sent:*Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:30 PM
*To:*rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
*Subject:*Lower cowl gear leg slot
For you that have your planes flying, did you put a plate in on the
lower cowl to cover the gear leg slot forward of the gear leg or do you
just leave it open?
Carl
9 hours – still tweaking the gear leg fairings
* *
|
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:50 am Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
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My experience is the same. It could be that aerodynamically the 26 lbs of force to pivot the nose wheel side to side is just the right amount to avoid a shimmy but keep the nose wheel in perfect trail while cruising. In practice, I think it's almost impossible to get the 26 lbs required, and certainly is impossible to keep it. I usually tighten to the flat (with the cotter pin hole lined up) that provides a fair amount of pivot drag, but never measure the force any more.
Also, when I am trimming the rudder, I trim a little, then tap on that pedal to see where the ball settles.
I never pay attention to the position of my rudder trim tab. It isn't big enough to cause a dangerous situation if it is way out of trim at takeoff. The same goes for my aileron trim, since neither of them have a position sensor, although I can see the aileron trim tab in flight and it usually is only less than 10% out of trail to keep things flying level. The elevator trim is definitely big enough to cause a problem if it's way out, so I always trim that to a little bit nose down of center for takeoff, then I adjust for climb based on how I am loaded and how I need to climb for CHT's and Oil Temp.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Jun 18, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: |
RE #4:
"4. Im on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings. They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right. First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants and fairing off the ball is dead center. "
I've found that a jab of the rudder pedal one way or the other
will often leave it settled in at a new trim point. I've also
had happen to me, and others have as well, the nosewheel doesn't
trail perfectly straight. Some of this will likely affect
your ability to get the ball to center all of the time. I'm
guessing that with the nosewheel tightened up well so that it
doesn't shimmy, it has some stiction that keeps it in trail
at whatever angle, so the stab of the rudder pedal may or may not
shift the nosewheel to a new stiction point. At any rate, having
rudder trim makes it easy to trim out, but I definitely don't
ALWAYS have the same neutral rudder trim position.
Tim
On 6/17/2012 6:11 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Just back from a run with the forward gear leg slot cover removed. I
> ran the same test pattern as my earlier flight of the day to get
> reasonable comparison data. OAT was warmer (80) on the second run
> however. I have a stock Vans engine and Hartzell prop.
>
> Climb out (full throttle climb, 140kts, to 6500. CHTs 10-15 degrees
> cooler with the slot cover removed. With the cover on #6 at 430, then
> #5 at 420 and the rest at 400 or below. With the cover off #6 hottest
> at 420, #5 at 410, rest below 400.
>
> CHTs in level flight not much difference, perhaps slightly cooler with
> the cover off. CHTs range from 370 to 390.
>
> Oil temp I have had the oil air butterfly door full open for climb,
> and perhaps half shut in level flight to keep oil temp around 190 or
> so. If anything I would say there is less air for the cooler with the
> cover off but no practical difference. I suspect this reflects a
> reduce pressure drop across the cooler with the cover off as the lower
> cowl exit area has more air flow. I did not use the Vans oil mount -
> I have the cooler mounted horizontally on the firewall.
>
> Speed. 6500, 23.5, 2400 RPM ROP, TAS 184kts cover on, 181kts cover off.
>
> LOP run, 6500, 23.5, 2350 RPM, TAS 168kts cover on (12.2gph), 170kts
> cover off(12.5gph). I suspect this result reflects the slightly higher
> fuel flow for the second data run.
>
> 11.5 hours on the 10 now. Here are a few notes for those getting ready
> for first flight:
>
> 1.Tighten the nose gear nut after the first couple of landings. I did
> mine at 9 hours and it was way loose. The 9^th hour landing nose gear
> feedback (shimmy) was pronounced.
>
> 2.While there has been a lot of discussion on the list about greasing
> the prop, recommend you at least do the after the first hour greasing
> as discussed in the Hartwell manual.
>
> 3.I have a GTN-650 and a PS Engineering Audio panel. It turns out
> Garmin has a software problem that screws up mic audio gain if you use
> one of these panels. There is a fix, but you have to go to a Garmin
> dealer to get it (and then it still does not work as good as it
> should). Id still much rather have an updated GX-60 and a SL-30 combo
> instead of this over priced box.
>
> 4.Im on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings.
> They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right.
> First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right
> side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was
> in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants
> and fairing off the ball is dead center.
>
> 5.Rigging. It took six months of chasing my tail to get the rigging
> right on the 8A (easier once I broke the code). The 10 was dead on
> right out of the box.
>
> 6.Elevator trim. Remember that half way in not neutral. Make sure you
> know where neutral really is on the panel, start there and then figure
> out your setting you want for takeoff.
>
> 28.5 more hours and then a long awaited western trip this fall.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl Froehlich
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:53 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> Thanks.
>
> First 9 hours I had a plate installed. I do a few hours without it and
> see if there is any difference.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *bob-tcw
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:38 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> Carl, I left the nose gear leg opening....open. Cooling has been fine
>
> Bob Newman
>
> N541RV
>
> 70hrs
>
> *From:*Carl Froehlich <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net>
>
> *Sent:*Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:30 PM
>
> *To:*rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>
> *Subject:*Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> For you that have your planes flying, did you put a plate in on the
> lower cowl to cover the gear leg slot forward of the gear leg or do you
> just leave it open?
>
>
> Carl
>
> 9 hours still tweaking the gear leg fairings
>
> * *
|
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:05 am Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
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Thanks Tim. I thought about the nose wheel aspect, but never had the issue in the 8A.
Before I jack up the plane and do the plumb bob thing yet again, I'll get some more flight data and see what that tells me.
Carl
-----Original message-----
[quote]From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2012 09:30:00 EDT
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results
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jchang10
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
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Not sure why my first attempt didn't go thru. Trying again...
In my case, i thought it was a nosewheel shimmy when it was a mainwheel shimmy. I did all the normal things to the nosewheel to fix the issue. Adding balance weights even affected the speed range of the shimmy which seemed to confirm it was a nosewheel issue.
I finally got around to video-taping the undercarriage. To my surprise, i have a main wheel shimmy and not a nosewheel issue. It happens in a 5 knot speed range, so i can either accelerate or brake quickly thru the speed range to minimize the discomfort.
http://youtu.be/lBi6RdOS2Cw
This is the only video i have uploaded. It occurs around the 7:08 mark.
Thus, now I have to go thru all the same steps to try and fix the issue on the mainwheel this time.
Jae
[quote="carl.froehlich(at)verizon"]Thanks Tim.� I thought about the nose wheel aspect, but never had the issue in the 8A.
Before I jack up the plane and do the plumb bob thing yet again, I'll get some more flight data and see what that tells me.
Carl
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 |
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:10 pm Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
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Hey Jae,
Now that's an awesome video! I've gone over the shimmy at 7:08 several
times (I'm sure you've replayed it much more) and it looks like the strut is
stable but the pants shimmy? Just can't see it in the strut? Anyway, I
enjoyed the video and will wait for the solution.
Later, - Lew
do not archive
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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
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Everyone needs to drill a 2nd hole through the front axle that is 30 degrees from the 1st hole.... that way you can tighten to within 30 degrees instead of only within 60 degrees.... doesn't weaken anything because the hole is below most of the nut, and only for the cotter pin. Having only one hole, it almost never ends up where you want it.
Don McDonald
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)>
My experience is the same. It could be that aerodynamically the 26 lbs of force to pivot the nose wheel side to side is just the right amount to avoid a shimmy but keep the nose wheel in perfect trail while cruising. In practice, I think it's almost impossible to get the 26 lbs required, and certainly is impossible to keep it. I usually tighten to the flat (with the cotter pin hole lined up) that provides a fair amount of pivot drag, but never measure the force any more.
Also, when I am trimming the rudder, I trim a little, then tap on that pedal to see where the ball settles.
I never pay attention to the position of my rudder trim tab. It isn't big enough to cause a dangerous situation if it is way out of trim at takeoff. The same goes for my aileron trim, since neither of them have a position sensor, although I can see the aileron trim tab in flight and it usually is only less than 10% out of trail to keep things flying level. The elevator trim is definitely big enough to cause a problem if it's way out, so I always trim that to a little bit nose down of center for takeoff, then I adjust for climb based on how I am loaded and how I need to climb for CHT's and Oil Temp.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Jun 18, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
RE #4:
"4. I’m on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings. They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right. First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants and fairing off the ball is dead center. "
I've found that a jab of the rudder pedal one way or the other
will often leave it settled in at a new trim point. I've also
had happen to me, and others have as well, the nosewheel doesn't
trail perfectly straight. Some of this will likely affect
your ability to get the ball to center all of the time. I'm
guessing that with the nosewheel tightened up well so that it
doesn't shimmy, it has some stiction that keeps it in trail
at whatever angle, so the stab of the rudder pedal may or may not
shift the nosewheel to a new stiction point. At any rate, having
rudder trim makes it easy to trim out, but I definitely don't
ALWAYS have the same neutral rudder trim position.
Tim
On 6/17/2012 6:11 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Just back from a run with the forward gear leg slot cover removed. I
> ran the same test pattern as my earlier flight of the day to get
> reasonable comparison data. OAT was warmer (80) on the second run
> however. I have a stock Van’s engine and Hartzell prop.
>
> Climb out (full throttle climb, 140kts, to 6500’. CHTs 10-15 degrees
> cooler with the slot cover removed. With the cover on #6 at 430, then
> #5 at 420 and the rest at 400 or below. With the cover off #6 hottest
> at 420, #5 at 410, rest below 400.
>
> CHTs in level flight – not much difference, perhaps slightly cooler with
> the cover off. CHTs range from 370 to 390.
>
> Oil temp – I have had the oil air butterfly door full open for climb,
> and perhaps half shut in level flight to keep oil temp around 190 or
> so. If anything I would say there is less air for the cooler with the
> cover off – but no practical difference. I suspect this reflects a
> reduce pressure drop across the cooler with the cover off as the lower
> cowl exit area has more air flow. I did not use the Van’s oil mount -
> I have the cooler mounted horizontally on the firewall.
>
> Speed. 6500’, 23.5”, 2400 RPM ROP, TAS 184kts cover on, 181kts cover off.
>
> LOP run, 6500’, 23.5”, 2350 RPM, TAS 168kts cover on (12.2gph), 170kts
> cover off(12.5gph). I suspect this result reflects the slightly higher
> fuel flow for the second data run.
>
> 11.5 hours on the 10 now. Here are a few notes for those getting ready
> for first flight:
>
> 1.Tighten the nose gear nut after the first couple of landings. I did
> mine at 9 hours and it was way loose. The 9^th hour landing nose gear
> feedback (shimmy) was pronounced.
>
> 2.While there has been a lot of discussion on the list about greasing
> the prop, recommend you at least do the “after the first hour” greasing
> as discussed in the Hartwell manual.
>
> 3.I have a GTN-650 and a PS Engineering Audio panel. It turns out
> Garmin has a software problem that screws up mic audio gain if you use
> one of these panels. There is a fix, but you have to go to a Garmin
> dealer to get it (and then it still does not work as good as it
> should). I’d still much rather have an updated GX-60 and a SL-30 combo
> instead of this over priced box.
>
> 4.I’m on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings.
> They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right.
> First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right
> side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was
> in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants
> and fairing off the ball is dead center.
>
> 5.Rigging. It took six months of chasing my tail to get the rigging
> right on the 8A (easier once I broke the code). The 10 was dead on
> right out of the box.
>
> 6.Elevator trim. Remember that half way in not neutral. Make sure you
> know where neutral really is on the panel, start there and then figure
> out your setting you want for takeoff.
>
> 28.5 more hours and then a long awaited western trip this fall.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] *On Behalf Of *Carl Froehlich
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:53 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> Thanks.
>
> First 9 hours I had a plate installed. I do a few hours without it and
> see if there is any difference.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] *On Behalf Of *bob-tcw
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:38 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
> *Subject:* Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> Carl, I left the nose gear leg opening....open. Cooling has been fine
>
> Bob Newman
>
> N541RV
>
> 70hrs
>
> *From:*Carl Froehlich <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>
>
> *Sent:*Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:30 PM
>
> *To:*rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
>
> *Subject:*Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> For you that have your planes flying, did you put a plate in on the
> lower cowl to cover the gear leg slot forward of the gear leg or do you
> just leave it open?
>
>
> Carl
>
> 9 hours – still tweaking the gear leg fairings
>
> * *
< --> http://forums.matronics  tronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri================
|
[quote][b]
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Don A. McDonald
40636 |
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dmaib@me.com
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
|
|
Mine turned out to be a right main gear shimmy as well. I identified it with a belly camera. I have not been able to stop it. Starts at about 14 or 15 knots gps groundspeed and is gone by about 17 or 18 knots. I have decided to live with it.
David Maib
40559
RV-10 Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL 32169
On Jun 18, 2012, at 6:56 PM, jchang10 wrote:
Not sure why my first attempt didn't go thru. Trying again...
In my case, i thought it was a nosewheel shimmy when it was a mainwheel shimmy. I did all the normal things to the nosewheel to fix the issue. Adding balance weights even affected the speed range of the shimmy which seemed to confirm it was a nosewheel issue.
I finally got around to video-taping the undercarriage. To my surprise, i have a main wheel shimmy and not a nosewheel issue. It happens in a 5 knot speed range, so i can either accelerate or brake quickly thru the speed range to minimize the discomfort.
http://youtu.be/lBi6RdOS2Cw
This is the only video i have uploaded. It occurs around the 7:08 mark.
Thus, now I have to go thru all the same steps to try and fix the issue on the mainwheel this time.
Jae
[quote="carl.froehlich(at)verizon"]Thanks Tim.� I thought about the nose wheel aspect, but never had the issue in the 8A.
Before I jack up the plane and do the plumb bob thing yet again, I'll get some more flight data and see what that tells me.
Carl
--------
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376038#376038
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David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL |
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dmaib@me.com
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
|
|
I have been doing the same as Jesse for the last couple of years. I have had it as tight as 45 lbs with no adverse ground steering issues. I also agree with Tim's comments concerning the nose wheel alignment. My wheel pants come on and off more than most because I usually remove them when I am doing transition training. Every time I put them back on, the rudder trim is a tad bit different. As Jesse notes, I trim the rudder and then give the pedal a little tap and see where the ball really settles.
David Maib
40559
Transition Trainer
New Smyrna Beach, FL
On Jun 18, 2012, at 10:58 PM, Don McDonald wrote:
Everyone needs to drill a 2nd hole through the front axle that is 30 degrees from the 1st hole.... that way you can tighten to within 30 degrees instead of only within 60 degrees.... doesn't weaken anything because the hole is below most of the nut, and only for the cotter pin. Having only one hole, it almost never ends up where you want it.
Don McDonald
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)>
My experience is the same. It could be that aerodynamically the 26 lbs of force to pivot the nose wheel side to side is just the right amount to avoid a shimmy but keep the nose wheel in perfect trail while cruising. In practice, I think it's almost impossible to get the 26 lbs required, and certainly is impossible to keep it. I usually tighten to the flat (with the cotter pin hole lined up) that provides a fair amount of pivot drag, but never measure the force any more.
Also, when I am trimming the rudder, I trim a little, then tap on that pedal to see where the ball settles.
I never pay attention to the position of my rudder trim tab. It isn't big enough to cause a dangerous situation if it is way out of trim at takeoff. The same goes for my aileron trim, since neither of them have a position sensor, although I can see the aileron trim tab in flight and it usually is only less than 10% out of trail to keep things flying level. The elevator trim is definitely big enough to cause a problem if it's way out, so I always trim that to a little bit nose down of center for takeoff, then I adjust for climb based on how I am loaded and how I need to climb for CHT's and Oil Temp.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Jun 18, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
RE #4:
"4. Im on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings. They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right. First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants and fairing off the ball is dead center. "
I've found that a jab of the rudder pedal one way or the other
will often leave it settled in at a new trim point. I've also
had happen to me, and others have as well, the nosewheel doesn't
trail perfectly straight. Some of this will likely affect
your ability to get the ball to center all of the time. I'm
guessing that with the nosewheel tightened up well so that it
doesn't shimmy, it has some stiction that keeps it in trail
at whatever angle, so the stab of the rudder pedal may or may not
shift the nosewheel to a new stiction point. At any rate, having
rudder trim makes it easy to trim out, but I definitely don't
ALWAYS have the same neutral rudder trim position.
Tim
On 6/17/2012 6:11 PM, Carl Froehlich wrote:
> Just back from a run with the forward gear leg slot cover removed. I
> ran the same test pattern as my earlier flight of the day to get
> reasonable comparison data. OAT was warmer (80) on the second run
> however. I have a stock Vans engine and Hartzell prop.
>
> Climb out (full throttle climb, 140kts, to 6500. CHTs 10-15 degrees
> cooler with the slot cover removed. With the cover on #6 at 430, then
> #5 at 420 and the rest at 400 or below. With the cover off #6 hottest
> at 420, #5 at 410, rest below 400.
>
> CHTs in level flight not much difference, perhaps slightly cooler with
> the cover off. CHTs range from 370 to 390.
>
> Oil temp I have had the oil air butterfly door full open for climb,
> and perhaps half shut in level flight to keep oil temp around 190 or
> so. If anything I would say there is less air for the cooler with the
> cover off but no practical difference. I suspect this reflects a
> reduce pressure drop across the cooler with the cover off as the lower
> cowl exit area has more air flow. I did not use the Vans oil mount -
> I have the cooler mounted horizontally on the firewall.
>
> Speed. 6500, 23.5, 2400 RPM ROP, TAS 184kts cover on, 181kts cover off.
>
> LOP run, 6500, 23.5, 2350 RPM, TAS 168kts cover on (12.2gph), 170kts
> cover off(12.5gph). I suspect this result reflects the slightly higher
> fuel flow for the second data run.
>
> 11.5 hours on the 10 now. Here are a few notes for those getting ready
> for first flight:
>
> 1.Tighten the nose gear nut after the first couple of landings. I did
> mine at 9 hours and it was way loose. The 9^th hour landing nose gear
> feedback (shimmy) was pronounced.
>
> 2.While there has been a lot of discussion on the list about greasing
> the prop, recommend you at least do the after the first hour greasing
> as discussed in the Hartwell manual.
>
> 3.I have a GTN-650 and a PS Engineering Audio panel. It turns out
> Garmin has a software problem that screws up mic audio gain if you use
> one of these panels. There is a fix, but you have to go to a Garmin
> dealer to get it (and then it still does not work as good as it
> should). Id still much rather have an updated GX-60 and a SL-30 combo
> instead of this over priced box.
>
> 4.Im on my second round of mounting the wheel pants and leg fairings.
> They make a huge speed difference but they are a pain to get right.
> First flight today the ball was in the center but favoring the right
> side. Second flight (no changes to the pants or fairings) the ball was
> in the center but favoring the left side. Go figure. With the pants
> and fairing off the ball is dead center.
>
> 5.Rigging. It took six months of chasing my tail to get the rigging
> right on the 8A (easier once I broke the code). The 10 was dead on
> right out of the box.
>
> 6.Elevator trim. Remember that half way in not neutral. Make sure you
> know where neutral really is on the panel, start there and then figure
> out your setting you want for takeoff.
>
> 28.5 more hours and then a long awaited western trip this fall.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] *On Behalf Of *Carl Froehlich
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:53 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
> *Subject:* RE: Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> Thanks.
>
> First 9 hours I had a plate installed. I do a few hours without it and
> see if there is any difference.
>
> Carl
>
> *From:*owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] *On Behalf Of *bob-tcw
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:38 PM
> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
> *Subject:* Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> Carl, I left the nose gear leg opening....open. Cooling has been fine
>
> Bob Newman
>
> N541RV
>
> 70hrs
>
> *From:*Carl Froehlich <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>
>
> *Sent:*Sunday, June 17, 2012 12:30 PM
>
> *To:*rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
>
> *Subject:*Lower cowl gear leg slot
>
> For you that have your planes flying, did you put a plate in on the
> lower cowl to cover the gear leg slot forward of the gear leg or do you
> just leave it open?
>
>
> Carl
>
> 9 hours still tweaking the gear leg fairings
>
> * *
< --> http://forums.matronics tronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri================
|
| Quote: |
face="courier new,courier">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL |
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mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
|
|
Jar, is that a GoPro cam? If so, how did you mount it?
Bill
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:56 AM, "jchang10" <jc-matronics_rv10(at)jline.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Not sure why my first attempt didn't go thru. Trying again...
In my case, i thought it was a nosewheel shimmy when it was a mainwheel shimmy. I did all the normal things to the nosewheel to fix the issue. Adding balance weights even affected the speed range of the shimmy which seemed to confirm it was a nosewheel issue.
I finally got around to video-taping the undercarriage. To my surprise, i have a main wheel shimmy and not a nosewheel issue. It happens in a 5 knot speed range, so i can either accelerate or brake quickly thru the speed range to minimize the discomfort.
http://youtu.be/lBi6RdOS2Cw
This is the only video i have uploaded. It occurs around the 7:08 mark.
Thus, now I have to go thru all the same steps to try and fix the issue on the mainwheel this time.
Jae
[quote="carl.froehlich(at)verizon"]Thanks Tim.� I thought about the nose wheel aspect, but never had the issue in the 8A.
Before I jack up the plane and do the plumb bob thing yet again, I'll get some more flight data and see what that tells me.
Carl
--------
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376038#376038
|
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jchang10
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Lower cowl gear leg slot cover - test results |
|
|
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=465850&postcount=5
Yes, a gopro. I basically did what Kevin did in his photo without the washer. I used one of the standard plastic mounts. I left the adhesive foam pad with the plastic cover still on it - don't want to use the adhesive but the foam pad provides nice cushioning and paint protection (or in my case scuff protection).
I drilled a pilot hole in the center, which is right on that raised center rail. Then i just used a countersink until a #8 CS screw was flush for the camera mount to easily slide thru.
I have mounted it using a longer #8 access cover screw so far. I guess i could do an above the wing mount with a fuel tank screw too. However, a wingtip vantage point would be interesting too, but those are all #6 screws out on the wing tip.
Jae
| mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com wrote: | Jar, is that a GoPro cam? If so, how did you mount it?
Bill
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 |
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