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Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales.

 
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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1311
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. Reply with quote

From: Aviation Product Support
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 9:52 AM
Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on ISSUE=87343 PROJ=1

Email Notification from Garmin Aviation Product Support
Thank you for contacting Garmin Aviation Product Support. Your service record has been created with the information below.

For immediate assistance please call 866-739-5687 during normal business hours (7AM – 7PM US Central time, Monday through Friday) and refer to the Service Record Number below.

Service Record Number: 87343
Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on
Last update: 06/25/2012 07:52:39

Brief description of the problem:
It is not recommended - damage could result if a spike from the electrical system made it to the unit and was to fast for the protection circuitry to catch it.
If any of the above information is incorrect, please reply to this email with corrected contact information. You may also contact Garmin Aviation Product Support at 866-739-5687 and provide the information to the agent who assists you. For the latest news about Garmin products and services, please visit our Web site at www.garmin.com.


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Joe Gores
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. Reply with quote

At 02:00 PM 6/25/2012, you wrote:
Quote:


From: Aviation Product Support
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 9:52 AM
Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on ISSUE=87343 PROJ=1

Email Notification from Garmin Aviation Product Support
Thank you for contacting Garmin Aviation Product
Support. Your service record has been created with the information below.

For immediate assistance please call
866-739-5687 during normal business hours (7AM
– 7PM US Central time, Monday through Friday)
and refer to the Service Record Number below.

Service Record Number: 87343
Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on
Last update: 06/25/2012 07:52:39

Brief description of the problem:
It is not recommended - damage could result if a
spike from the electrical system made it to the
unit and was to fast for the protection circuitry to catch it.
If any of the above information is incorrect,
please reply to this email with corrected contact information.

Can you give me the reverse e-mail link? It would be
interesting to see if anyone at Garmin has identified
a new spike risk. It would also be interesting to know
how one crafts "slow protection circuitry" . . .

Bob . . .


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1311
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. Reply with quote

Aviation.Support (at) garmin dot com
Here you go Bob. Replace the (at) with (at) and replace the dot with a period and remove the spaces.
Mention Service Record Number: 87343
Joe


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
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Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. Reply with quote

Below is the question that my friend asked Garmin:
Quote:
I would like to know if it is acceptable to start the engine when my SL40 is turned on.
[/code]


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mmayfield



Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 39
Location: NSW Central Coast, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. Reply with quote

I just find this whole "don't dare turn it on before the engine is started" argument a little crazy.

Those who have flown the B767 and similar vintage big metal things will be familiar with the significant CLUNK as engine generators come online and transfer power, causing various lights and screens to blank, flicker and carry on spectacularly. Or other effects when the APU generator comes online and takes over from battery power.

Yet the 20+ year old comm radios and nav systems made by Collins, Honeywell, Garmin, etc still survive these power transients, spikes, and surges. Excactly the same goes for other large aircraft I've flown. Radios and nav gear were regularly switched on, as a matter of necessity, before engine start. In almost 30 years of flying these things, I've never experience an avionics failure (well at least not a sustained one which wasn't fixed by a simple reset) due to power transients when engine-driven power sources have come online and assumed the load!

This morbid fear, bordering on complete paranoia, of avionics being on before engine start in the small-plane world is quite new to me!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. Reply with quote

At 12:01 AM 6/27/2012, you wrote:


I just find this whole "don't dare turn it on before the engine is
started" argument a little crazy.

Those who have flown the B767 and similar vintage big metal things
will be familiar with the significant CLUNK as engine generators come
online and transfer power, causing various lights and screens to
blank, flicker and carry on spectacularly. Or other effects when the
APU generator comes online and takes over from battery power.

Similarly, there are dozens of potentially 'sensitive'
electro-whizzies firmly attached to the various busses
on most aircraft with DC power system. My first such
product was a pitch trim speed controller and runaway
monitor for the most of the fleet of Lears. It was
stuffed full of C-mos devices. Had we asked for procedures
and systems to 'shut it off during cranking' . . . the
product would never have made it to the production
line.

Yet the 20+ year old comm radios and nav systems made by Collins,
Honeywell, Garmin, etc still survive these power transients, spikes,
and surges. Excactly the same goes for other large aircraft I've
flown. Radios and nav gear were regularly switched on, as a matter of
necessity, before engine start. In almost 30 years of flying these
things, I've never experience an avionics failure due to power
transients when engine-driven power sources have come online and
assumed the load!

Exactly . . . and indeed radios much older. Don't know
about the heavier iron but I was working at Cessna's
single-engine facility when the Avionics Master Switch
was birthed. We were indeed 'killing' a goodly number
of brand new 300 series radios that sported the latest
'transistorized' audio systems and power supplies. It
seemed that radios which worked when the airplane was
parked in the finished goods patch didn't work the next
time the airplane was started.

It was 'assumed' that spikes from the starter were
killing transistors. The AMS seemed like a quick and
easy solution to isolating all radios from those
presumed risks.

In retrospect, I've deduced that it wasn't spikes
that killed radios but 'brown out' transients experienced
during cranking of a new, tight engine on a battery that
might never have been fully topped off and had been setting
on the ramp for 30-60 days.

Those new, relatively fragile, germanium PNP power
transistors were coming out of saturation and going
into second breakdown under low voltage conditions.
It was some years later that the DO-160 tests for
brown out conditions were expanded . . . combined with
more robust silicon transistors and designs by engineers
who were good students of lessons-learned and were
doing a better job.

This morbid fear, bordering on complete paranoia, of avionics being
on before engine start in the small-plane world is quite new to me!

Agreed. But we planted the weeds back about 1965 and
every flight instructor since has watered and fertilized
those weeds dutifully for the 50 years hence. What was
once a misinterpretation of cause and effect out of ignorance
morphed into a full blown superstition. I too was once a
believer but a few years after that experience at Cessna
as a tech writer, I had a responsibility to understand
and apply DO-160 requirements to my work product. The
task turned out to be a real superstition-killer.
Bob . . .


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