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Mod 73
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richard collings

Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 73
Location: warwickshire england

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: Mod 73

Hi Bud

 I have been following with interest this problem because  whilst I was building my Europa I became very unhappy with the design which  required a degree of precision machining and fitting that was not available  to the average builder - me.

 I overcame the problem with mod 11969 which replaced  the TP14 pins with close tolerance bolts which when tightened up on to a  shaped nut plate mounted inside the torque tube clamped everything together  so removing any chance of fretting taking place. There is little or no tube  distortion and as I had to rig test my design in order to gain LAA approval,  found that with all the bolts torque up to 200 lbs inches the assembly  could transmit 90 lbs ft before slipping. No glue, no hammering. 

 I would appreciate your opinion on this  mod.

 Regards

 Richard Collings

  

 [quote]   ---

g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: Mod 73

All

 

Details of Richard Collings mod (11969) is available on the Club web site

 

http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/11969-TTpins.pdf

 

For UK owners I would expect the LAA to treat it as a “repeat Mod” if you want to use it

 

Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours

Europa Club Mods Specialist

e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com 

 

 

   [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi. Richard.

That looks a good fix to me, pulling up on both side of the tube, i can,t see that moving anywhere.

Next project is to get rid of the pins on the TB12 drive plate,

Make a drive plate with all the external edges angled at 90 degrees ,ie a male drive plate, and a mirrored female drive plate fitted to the stabilator,  all of this female drive plate slides up into the male drive plate, all the surfaces making a tight contacting join.,and full transmission load spread over the entire surface, 

No little pins and no lugs, so no chance of miss alignment damaging or pin wear or breaking . 

All of this would last the life of the aircraft

Alan

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

A job done properly



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzDg_6uLZQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Alan

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hi Richard ,Peter

I had thought of solid cores , here you could see the nuts , as the nut would be on the outside of the tube, you could check them or wire lock them,  But the 1/4 moons as in your diagram allow any water to escape from within the tube.

Further more you could increase and have the say two 1/3rd moons, with two drilled recesses in the back and say two 1/2”diameter “springs slipped in-between the two part moons” .

To fit just squeeze the two 1/3rd shaped moons together and pop into the end of the tube , “now its holds itself in place” . Now you can attach a piece of wood slide it down the tube twist it about and line the holes up then pop the bolts in and tighten up.

As for the 2 little springs leave them there, or take another thin piece of wood push down the tube and push them out, as they have done there job, and use them again for the next set of 1/3rd shaped moons you are going to slid down the tube to do the next pin hole.

Alan

neveyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hi All,

   No one spotted my deliberate mistake in my earlier posting, re the interference fit of the pins.......a typo....

   Should have read as 0.0007'' undersize holes in the torque tube, so not a job for the local blacksmith !

   I was talking to someone about Bud's cooling the pins system when it dawned on my I had missed a zero......

   Cheers,

   Nev.

 

 

 

   --

danny shepherd

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 117
Location: north Wales, United Kingdom

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: Mod 73

On 24/10/2012 21:23, Neville Eyre       wrote:

     

     

     

     Dam, I just saked my local blacksmith to fix thew plroblem     !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  .

     [quote]         Hi All,

         No one spotted my deliberate mistake in my earlier posting,           re the interference fit of the pins.......a typo....

         Should have read as 0.0007'' undersize holes in the torque           tube, so not a job for the local blacksmith !

         I was talking to someone about Bud's cooling the pins           system when it dawned on my I had missed a zero......

         Cheers,

         Nev.

           

           

         

         --

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 805

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: Mod 73

Hi Group 

 	With regard to getting a good fit of pins on my quick build tailplanes that had a lot of play at the tip of the stabilators from the get go (at least 1"), I machined my own pins. 

 	What I found was that even while taking extreme care using slightly undersized drill, then reaming to size using plenty of cutting fluid (10 mm), the hole although it was close to proper size (using precision guage pins in .0001 steps to measure), it was a pretty poor finish on the hole if you look with a microscope. In other words half of the metal was only making contact with the pin! After a bit of head scratching, I machined a number of pins with .0001" tolerance in incremental size. I was able to tap these in using lubricant until I could see and feel that there was good contact. Then measuring with my precision pins, I made the "real deal" pins between .0007 to m.0009" interference fit of this "sized" hole. I cheated a little bit where I made the first hole the pin would go in a few tenths larger at least than the second hole, and made the pin a dog bone shape, where the center was a few thousands smaller in diameter so it would not drag and oversize the first hole. The only interference fit on the pin was ~ 1/8" longer than needed. Machining to .0001" takes a bit of practice, but what I did was laid out all my holes and machined the first pin the largest size. This way if I went under, I was able to use this now undersized pin for the smaller holes. Anyway about 33% scrap, not too bad. End result was a  really nice fit during final assembly. You can't use a lath tool bit to work within .0001", you need to lap your size. If you're lucky you may get within less than a thousand, if not two or three thousands.  In other words, wet and dry sandpaper glued to a tongue depressor. Using a precision micrometer, use sandpaper on any over sized areas to keep uniform diameter. net is you can work within amazing tolerances! I made out of free machining 410 stainless purchased from www.mcmaster.com 

 	To make dogbone was easy. Tape over area of interference fit and using tongue depressor with sandpaper go after what you want to make undersized. Perhaps takes 5 or 10 minutes each pin. 

 	If you want to see some pics, look under Torque Tube fit: 

 	http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86924 

 	Ron Parigoris    [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hello All

I have seen a photo of the  new Torque Tube made by Europa.

As far as i can make out from the picture, is as follows.

1.Basically the TP9 bell crank in the middle, now has a longer tube on each side,

2.The TB12 Drive Plate also has a longer tube on the inside of the Drive Plate this being a slightly smaller diameter than the TP9s extended tubes,

So the TP12 Drive plate tube slides directly inside the TP9 Bellcrank tube and a 3/8" pin as before locks them together.

So instead of the 4 pins previously used, there are now only 2 pins used.



I am saying pins but it could be bolts as i can not tell from the photo.?

i am just describing what i can see from the outside photo.

The price is around £735 incl Vat, not sure if this just for the 3 above components, or for all the components need, i would guess just the 3 above.

Regards .

Alan

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Mod 73

Hello All

No flutter here, just had to post this, amazing little aeroplane same combat bomb payload as B17. and basically a home build by many. 

hope you like it, 

alan 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfQQWOsoB8&feature=player_embedded

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