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Sub-standard Charging

 
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longg(at)pjm.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Sub-standard Charging Reply with quote

I have a Z-13/8 installation which charges between 12.5 and 12.9 since I've been using it. After startup the system charges happily to that level and then simply maintains it. I am trying to determine why the system stops charging at that level. From what I have read I should be expecting 13.0+ for normal operations. My B & C idiot light goes off at 13.0 so it too is constantly on. 12.5 doesn't stop me from flying, but I would like to resolve. I have an 80 amp alternator from Aerosport Power. Normal Load (5-30 amps) does not exceed capacity.

Suggestions or procedures or what to test much appreciated.

Thanks,

Glenn


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rlborger(at)mac.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject: Sub-standard Charging Reply with quote

Glenn,

Thanks for the commentary. I have a similar situation with my Rotax 914, external Denso alternator. Everything works but the charging voltage isn't high enough to make the B&C voltage monitor light go out. Present normal load on the system is less than 5 amps.

Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
rlborger(at)mac.com

On Nov 5, 2012, at 9:17 AM, longg(at)pjm.com wrote:



I have a Z-13/8 installation which charges between 12.5 and 12.9 since I've been using it. After startup the system charges happily to that level and then simply maintains it. I am trying to determine why the system stops charging at that level. From what I have read I should be expecting 13.0+ for normal operations. My B & C idiot light goes off at 13.0 so it too is constantly on. 12.5 doesn't stop me from flying, but I would like to resolve. I have an 80 amp alternator from Aerosport Power. Normal Load (5-30 amps) does not exceed capacity.

Suggestions or procedures or what to test much appreciated.

Thanks,

Glenn


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Sub-standard Charging Reply with quote

At 09:17 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <longg(at)pjm.com>

I have a Z-13/8 installation which charges between 12.5 and 12.9 since I've been using it. After startup the system charges happily to that level and then simply maintains it. I am trying to determine why the system stops charging at that level. From what I have read I should be expecting 13.0+ for normal operations.

14.2 to 14.6 is better yet


Quote:
My B & C idiot light goes off at 13.0 so it too is constantly on. 12.5 doesn't stop me from flying, but I would like to resolve. I have an 80 amp alternator from Aerosport Power. Normal Load (5-30 amps) does not exceed capacity.

12.5 says your alternator is NOT working at all.


Quote:
Suggestions or procedures or what to test much appreciated.

You need to divide and conquer. If you have
an externally regulated alternator, then
do the experiments described in the B&C trouble-
shooting procedures for LR3. Or you can add a
field voltage sense lead as described in Note
8 of Appendix Z. Alternatively, you can craft
a test regulator like this:

[img]cid:.0[/img]


This is a cheap generic VR166 regulator for "ford".
Convert your alternator to a locally regulated device
with temporary installation of this test regulator
and then go fly the airplane. If the bus voltage rises
to the nominal 14.2 volts, then your problem resides in
the existing regulator . . . if not, the alternator has
a problem.

What are your e-bus voltages during endurance mode
ops with the 8A standby alternator? Hmm . . . silly
question. You're flying with a partially charged battery.
The SD-8 wouldn't be able to push the bus voltage up
much under endurance mode ops.

Need to get the big dog woke up first . . .


Bob . . .


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Sub-standard Charging Reply with quote

At 09:31 AM 11/5/2012, you wrote:
Quote:


Glenn,

Thanks for the commentary. I have a similar situation with my Rotax
914, external Denso alternator. Everything works but the charging
voltage isn't high enough to make the B&C voltage monitor light go
out. Present normal load on the system is less than 5 amps.

What's the field voltage while in flight?

Bob . . .


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bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Sub-standard Charging Reply with quote



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go_lancair



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Glenside, PA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Sub-standard Charging Reply with quote

All - thanks for the replies. Sorry, just getting back to responding.

"What's the field voltage while in flight?" 12.5

Bob - Thanks for the tip and Reference to the Ford Regulator.
Did you ever get that AEC9004 as depicted on Figure Z-24A of the AppZ_Rev12A?

For reference my system is setup as shown on page 34, Figure Z-24 (Interim) of the AppZ_Rev12A. The contactor as depicted is recommended for isolation by AeroSport Power.

I have not compared the voltage of the e-bus under endurance with the SD-8 yet. I will do so over the weekend and report back.

In my testing I used a document from Plane Power (I believe they sell the alternator to Aerosport - Don't hold me to the fire on that 1).
In that document they request the validation of the voltage from all points electric on the ship. I even tested my wife's voltage which appeared higher than usual today.
http://www.plane-power.com/troubleshooting.htm (pick 1 from the Exp Area with IR)

In any event each point in the test came out the same, 11.8 (or very close). The essential bus side of the diode was 11.4 (expected lower). Note: the 11.8 value reflects my battery
receiving an insufficient charge.

In some respects, my review of the system has improved my lot. My voltage is up to 13.8 (better), but I cannot explain why. Perhaps 1 of you with whom has as a better
relationship to electrons can explain?

A bit of history: When I started flying my ship (12/2010) I cooked the wire between the alt. Field CB/Swtich (see Figure 24) and the contactor/field. After extracting the melted plastic
from my wiring harness, I decided to simply run a jumper wire between the hot side (batt contactor) of the alternator contactor and the switch (+). This of course provided for activating the alternator contactor
when the main bus switch was turned on (position 1). No harm done, but I essentially removed the ability to isolate the alternator without turning off the main DC power switch.

So, from that day forward my system ran/charged at 12.5 volts. As an FYI, my battery was always 11.8 when I went out to start.

Last weekend I reviewed the drawing and decided to reunite the connection between the switch/5 amp breaker, the field wire and the contactor.
Bling! - my voltage jumped up to 13.8. Makes no sense to me? The only difference being the contactor was already open when the alt field was activated.
I'm sure someone else can explain.

As for getting an even higher, 14.1+, I'm up for suggestions. Given that my system has climbed to 13.8, I have to assume the alternator (80 amp) is putting out.
BTW - Max Amp demand on my ship is about 10. Normal load is between 5-8. Don't even ask. I bought the 80 amp because at the time I thought more was better Smile

Bob Borger - Saw your note: Perhaps this and a more knowledgeable reply from our tutors will assist your situation.

Thanks and Have a great Thanksgiving!,

Glenn Long
KLOM


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Sub-standard Charging Reply with quote

At 01:14 PM 11/21/2012, you wrote:
Quote:


All - thanks for the replies. Sorry, just getting back to responding.

"What's the field voltage while in flight?" 12.5

That says the regulator is flogging an alternator
incapable of delivering power to the bus. I.e.
dead or disconnected. Average field voltage in flight
for a belt driven alternator is less than
3 volts.

Quote:
Bling! - my voltage jumped up to 13.8. Makes no sense to me? The
only difference being the contactor was already open when the alt
field was activated.

Yup . . . getting the contactor closed can make
a BIG difference.

Quote:
I'm sure someone else can explain.

As for getting an even higher, 14.1+, I'm up for suggestions. Given
that my system has climbed to 13.8, I have to assume the alternator
(80 amp) is putting out.
BTW - Max Amp demand on my ship is about 10. Normal load is between
5-8. Don't even ask. I bought the 80 amp because at the time I
thought more was better Smile

13.8 will probably suffice. When the regulator
is built in, what you see is what you get.
Bob . . .


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