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The hardware side

 
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checkn6



Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

Over the years I have learned a lot about herding electrons but now I would like to know if there is a recommended book/video/source on the physical side of aircraft wiring. Is there a legacy standard for how wiring is bundled, routed, secured and just generally mounted etc.?

Looking for chapters on things like firewall penetration, battery mounting etc., you know the hardware side of electron herding. I think I did a pretty good job on my last project but I always wondered “hmmm . . . should this bundle be handled this way or that?”

Thanks to Bob and all the others that I have learned from but just want to firm up my full understanding.

Thanks,
Chris


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

Straight from the gray matter of Bob himself...

The Aeroelectric Connection






Chris Stone
 
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:17 AM, checkn6 <checkn6(at)yahoo.com (checkn6(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com (checkn6(at)yahoo.com)>

Over the years I have learned a lot about herding electrons but now I would like to know if there is a recommended book/video/source on the physical side of aircraft wiring.  Is there a legacy standard for how wiring is bundled, routed, secured and just generally mounted etc.?

Looking for chapters on things like firewall penetration, battery mounting etc., you know the hardware side of electron herding. I think I did a pretty good job on my last project but I always wondered “hmmm . . . should this bundle be handled this way or that?”

Thanks to Bob and all the others that I have learned from but just want to firm up my full understanding.

Thanks,
Chris




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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

Chris...
National Aeronautics and
Space Administration
CRIMPING,
INTERCONNECTING CABLES,
HARNESSES, AND WIRING

NASA-STD-8739.4 with Change 3
February 1998

A google search...  Or provide an email and I will send you the .PDF
chris
[quote]

Over the years I have learned a lot about herding electrons but now I would like to know if there is a recommended book/video/source on the physical side of aircraft wiring.  Is there a legacy standard for how wiring is bundled, routed, secured and just generally mounted etc.?

Looking for chapters on things like firewall penetration, battery mounting etc., you know the hardware side of electron herding. I think I did a pretty good job on my last project but I always wondered “hmmm . . . should this bundle be handled this way or that?”

Thanks to Bob and all the others that I have learned from but just want to firm up my full understanding.

Thanks,
Chris




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387954#387954







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ldersbooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:27 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

Here's one of the best sources:
www.casa.gov.au/rules/1998casr/021/021c99.pdf

Thx, Vern

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racerjerry



Joined: 15 Dec 2009
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Location: Deer Park, NY

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: The hardware side Reply with quote

Then there is always Chapter 11 of AC 43.13-1B that is available free here:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/list/AC%2043.13-1B/$FILE/Chapter%2011.pdf


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checkn6



Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: The hardware side Reply with quote

OK, great information, thanks guys. As an aside I should have mentioned that I do have Bob's book and have been a follower on this list for quite some time. My wife thinks I should put a small Jesus like statuette of Bob up on the fireplace . . . te he he. I think I have seen every page on the Aeroelectric web site and have compiled a small book on my own of helpful hints and tips. I was just looking for a school book type of reference to go through the finer details of "acceptable" wiring/electronic installations.

Thanks again,

Chris
Challenger II
Sonex (underway)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

At 08:31 AM 11/17/2012, you wrote:
Quote:


OK, great information, thanks guys. As an aside I should have
mentioned that I do have Bob's book and have been a follower on this
list for quite some time. My wife thinks I should put a small Jesus
like statuette of Bob up on the fireplace . . . te he he. I think I
have seen every page on the Aeroelectric web site and have compiled
a small book on my own of helpful hints and tips. I was just looking
for a school book type of reference to go through the finer details
of "acceptable" wiring/electronic installations.

Thank you for the endorsement. I'm pleased that
you find our collective efforts so useful.

You have correctly identified the largest hurdle
in the sharing of a practical technology. There's
the study of ingredients that go into recipes for
success, then a recitation of recipes that have
benefited from critical review and practice and
finally, the processes by which those recipes are
brought into useful fruition.

The ancients had guilds of craftsmen who took on promising
new members based on their aptitude, willingness and
perhaps "donations" from their fathers. Membership
in a guild was the shortest path to success in many
disciplines.

You've arrived at the stage where book learn'n needs
to be converted to successes. Your goal for discovery
of "acceptable" processes is certainly adequate to
most tasks. At the same time, we who don't know much
about airplanes are not smart enough to know when
it can't be done . . . so we go do it anyhow.

The study of what has gone before gives you foundation
but don't hesitate to toss a question to the List
for something different. I would further caution against
the notion that all which is published, particularly
by regulatory authority, is not golden.

Some years back, AC43-13 was in a state of revision
some dozen years overdue. The FAA sent a copy of the
proposed update to the EAA tech guru . . . his name
escapes me at the moment. He was invited to spread
the document around with an invitation to comment.
"Oh, by the way, you got 10 days."

I got a copy of chapter 11 and set out to study
the validity of it's latest version. 3-4 days
later, my review along with reviews of many other
EAA members was submitted to the authors.

Dead silence.

I think it was perhaps 18 months later that the latest
and greatest AC43-13 was published. It was much better
but was still sprinkled with toe stubbers in both practice
and technology.

So no matter what you read from any source, an
attitude of healthy skepticism is a good thing.
The best way to dispel any doubt is bring it
to the List where you'll find dozens of sharp
minds who have been-there-done-that on many
things but are not fearful of departure from
legacy process and technology.

As teachers and practitioners of the art, we
all share a quest to design and craft the
elegant solution. Your willingness to participate
in the quest goes to making it happen.
Bob . . .

P.S. It occurred to me some weeks ago that it
might be useful to compile a book of photographs.
Nice close-ups that showed "stuff" installed on
airplanes. Age of the machine or nature of the
devices not important. They say a picture is
worth many words and I agree. A sort of un-narrated
comic book of techniques would offer the neophyte
builders some level of confidence for drilling
that first hole.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

My comments are at the bottom after the PS...
--


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

Quote:


[Jeff Luckey]
Bob - you are so 20th century. In the above paragraph
replace Book w/ Website - and I agree whole heartedly -
a visual library would speak volumes without a word.

Ahh . . . but of course. That's what I meant. I sorta
started this effort when I built the website. I have
an archive of photos at:

http://tinyurl.com/b5o58uq

but it's really clumsy to access. You have to look
at every picture one at a time to see if it's of
interest.

There should be an html thumbnail page, perhaps 4
columns wide that shows each picture in brief.
Clicking the image of interest would get the reader
a blow up.

I've mulled over a software program that would automatically
generate the .html from a text list of jpg file names.
There might also be a click-to-read link for a description
of the photo contents. The text files would be read by the
search engines and cataloged. There might already be
a utility for generating such a page. Do any of you
HTML gurus know of one?

This might offer a mechanism for accepting photos from
virtually anyone showing the mechanics of a host of
tasks and getting them published with a minimum of
time.
Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

The text files would be read by the
search engines and cataloged. There might already be
a utility for generating such a page. Do any of you
HTML gurus know of one?

Got the grandkids to bed and did a little
net searching. Seems there's a bunch of 'em.
I'll try some . . . more or less at random . . .
unless anyone has some specific recommendations.
Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

On 11/17/2012 5:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Quote:
I've mulled over a software program that would automatically
generate the .html from a text list of jpg file names.

Not sure what OS your website is running, but I wrote a very
simple Bourne shell script to do this on my Linux based web server. The
script takes an argument of a list of jpg filenames (or just a wildcard,
like "*.jpg" if you want to include all jpg files in a directory). It
reads the list, creates a thumbnail version of the jpg using the
"convert" program (part of the ImageMagick open source suite), and
creates a simple index.html file consisting of the thumbnails, and
clicking on the thumbnails brings up the original full size image.

It is about as basic and non-fancy as you can get, but you are
welcome to use it if it might be helpful to you. Should be easy enough
to modify to create whatever formatting you wish in the html.

File is attached that includes the code.

-Dj

--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/


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Tundra10



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Scarborough, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

Quote:
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: RE: Re: The hardware side

I've mulled over a software program that would automatically
generate the .html from a text list of jpg file names.
There might also be a click-to-read link for a description
of the photo contents. The text files would be read by the
search engines and cataloged. There might already be
a utility for generating such a page. Do any of you
HTML gurus know of one?

This might offer a mechanism for accepting photos from
virtually anyone showing the mechanics of a host of
tasks and getting them published with a minimum of
time.
Bob . . .

I have an elaborate korn shell script if anyone wants it. It
processes a directory hierarchy, calling each directory an "album" and
then creates a web page of the albums, photos and videos contained
therein, allowing for easy navigation of topics. It is designed to be
run repeatedly, say daily, or after adding photos.

It calls ImageMagick to create missing thumbnails. Optional text
files in the directories can be used to add album descriptions or
captions, or to leave the existing index.html file for that directory
intact (so that you can use Dreamweaver or whatever to create a fancy
album without having it overwritten. Directories can be flagged for
exclusion, in case you are not ready to include them yet. It also
modifies permissions to ensure the web server can read the files
(requires root permission for this).

It should be relatively easy to adapt to any unix system, since
variables are used to identify all executables called.

The only downside is that the html creates links to the photo files,
which avoids creating an html file for every photo, but means using
the back button on the browser after viewing a photo. No slide show
option Sad

Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10


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ivanallen



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: The hardware side Reply with quote

Newbie here. Struggling with hardware and hardware placement issues also. I envision building my instrument panel with a 12 v and ground buss mounted on the back side. Only two power wires to remove instrument panel from aircraft. (sensor wiring etc. exepted) Is this a good Idea? I have checked aircraft spruce and B&C, and can not find a good 12v buss for this purpose. B& C ground buss is nice, but no insulated buss. Do I just use a standard terminal strip with jumpers for this? Two pictures attached as sort of a test for my first post.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

How about this product?

Regards

Ron Raby

http://bluesea.com/productline/188

---


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

At 12:33 PM 11/26/2012, you wrote:
Quote:


Newbie here. Struggling with hardware and hardware placement
issues also. I envision building my instrument panel with a 12 v and
ground buss mounted on the back side. Only two power wires to
remove instrument panel from aircraft. (sensor wiring etc. exepted)
Is this a good Idea? I have checked aircraft spruce and B&C, and
can not find a good 12v buss for this purpose. B& C ground buss is
nice, but no insulated buss. Do I just use a standard terminal strip
with jumpers for this? Two pictures attached as sort of a test for
my first post.

What kind of airplane? What compliment of
panel mounted electro-whizzies? What kind
of alternator/battery arrangement?
Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: The hardware side Reply with quote

The positive side would typically go thru some kind of "distribution panel"
such as a collection of circuit breakers and/or fuses.

Typical installations mount circuit breakers, evenly spaced, in a row and
the input sides of the breakers are tied together using a bussbar or wire
jumpers.

If breakers aren't your thing, there are some pretty cool automotive fuse
blocks that are bussed internally and have tab connectors for the load side.
They are compact, easy to use, and relatively inexpensive. A google search
will turn-up hundreds of them.

That's a pretty high-level survey. If you give us more detail, we can make
more specific recommendations.
Jeff Luckey
--


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ivanallen



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The hardware side Reply with quote

Thanks all for the quick responses. I think I was having a senior moment, but for two days? That's just not right.
For some reason I was fixated on buss bars. I really like fuses and was planning on using them anyway. Problem solved. (2) 8 fuse blocks will easily do my main and essential buses. I'm using drawing z-11 as a guide.
Bob, as to the aircraft, it is an avid. Two place tube and fabric with a metal firewall. It will have just the basic round guages, an EIS-4000 engine monitor, and a single panel mount radio and a transponder. Also Whelen strobe and nav lights wing tips only. Power supply for the strobes behind the baggage compartment. Fuel is gravity feed only. Electrical will be single alternator 60 amps or less. The only question I have left after all the good advice is where to mount that main and essential bus. I would prefer access to the fuses without pulling my cowling if possible. Firewall access is not great on this aircraft.
All thoughts welcomed.


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