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Flying the Wilga

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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:17 am Post subject: Flying the Wilga

Hi again,



I might be in the market for a Wilga and

doing at the moment lots of homework

and research.



Here come some questions for the pros:



Has anybody of you guys flown and operated

a Wilga with a radial engine? Are they stable

and docile aircraft without any bad habits?

How is the flying and maintaining that ugly thing,

expensive or reasonable? I have seen them

also with mufflers so those must have a much

lower inside noise level - my dog will love that

part  How is the craftsmanship and the quality,

better - worse compared to the Yaks and CJs?



Are the PZL-104 reliable air-planes and where

can one obtain tagged and approved spare parts

(the Wilga is a certified aircraft in Canada!)?



What do you think about the new Wilga 2000

with the 300hp Li-Co-Ming flat engine (chinese

for Lycoming)? Some owners seem to be very

eager to sell their birds a.s.a.p., even with the

crankshaft AD already complied with?



Any constructive input on this matter is greatly

appreciated.



cheers



Elmar

ReadeG(at)cairnwood.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:27 am Post subject: Flying the Wilga

Elmar:



My experience and opinions re: Wilga 104-80 after 8 years of ownership:

	- typical eastern bloc aircraft - over engineered over built

	- very well built - hand work is amazing

	- very tough, very stable aircraft

	- controls are very heavy but very responsive

	- IA 14 R is essentially a de-rated version of M-14P 250 hp vs.

360 (some have installed the 360 - I've flow one - better climb but no

faster)

	- very low compression - very easy to hand prop.  Prop is 9"

longer than YK-52 paddle prop - same profile.

	- maintenance is very typical.  Mine was a 1994 model with very

little use when I got it.  Had to replace the rubber tips on all the air

check valves, had to replace the air start distributer (I don't think

prior owner bled the snot valve very often), and replaced the generator

with an alternator.  That's about it other than usual wear and tear.

	- parts are not regularly available any more - there is a guy in

Florida that bought all the Mielex (original US distributor for PZL)

parts but don't know his status any more.  Engine parts are available -

many are interchangeable with M-14p.  Air system is similar to YK-52

except that it uses two 3 liter air bottles for air storage.  The air is

for start only.  

	- climb at 64 kt, cruise at 88, descend at 64 and land at 54.

Only holds 48 gallons.  My rule of thumb was 2 hours or 200 miles -

	- brakes are hydraulic disc and are OK - not great, but

perfectly adequate

	- the mufflers were a factory option for European noise

requirements - they do make it very quiet - I was told it costs about 3%

in performance.

	- the landing gear is trailing link - very effective.  It's a

baby on grass and a pig on pavement.  The arm from mains to tail wheel

is very long so if you don't keep it straight it has a mind of its own.



	- It feels like  a lumbering giant and is very stable.

Visibility is great for rides.  



I bought it because I had all the support gear already - same air hook

up, tools, many parts as Yak, etc. It came with boxes of spare parts,

control locks, covers, excellent manuals for all systems and the largest

wheel chocks I've ever seen.  The seats are very comfortable, cockpit is

very spacious and you can stuff a lot of gear in the back.  Gave it up

when we moved to Wyoming as it is not a great performer at 9000 plus

density altitudes.  Went with the Super Cub and Husky.



I do not think PZL/EADS is directly supporting the 80.  Don't know about

the 2000.



Reade  



Reade Genzlinger

Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation

215.914.0370



--

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:40 am Post subject: Flying the Wilga

We have acess to the Mielex spares. Unfortuantely, we cannot issue a Form 1

or 8130 necessary for Certified aircraft. 



George Coy 



--

drc(at)wscare.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:28 am Post subject: Flying the Wilga

I have owned one as well as 2 yaks. There are a few unique traits to the wilga. Easy once you understand especially with yak or cj experience. Feel free to call me in the evenings. I will write a longer email for the group to see but easier to talk to explain my experience. They are a fun airplane and very capable. Build quality is excellent. Parts are not hard to come by. I had the 35A experimental and recommend the same. The 80 is the certified w round engine. Only useful if you need to operate commercially. I the 35 is half the money. I would avoid the 2000. More money again. The ultimate is to put the m14 on a 35 .

Herb 920-639-8434. 



Sent from DrC(at)wscare.com on the iPhone. Please excuse spelling and autocorrect. Siri makes mistakes . 



On Dec 10, 2012, at 3:15 AM, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer <samira.h(at)shaw.ca> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi again,

 

 I might be in the market for a Wilga and

 doing at the moment lots of homework

 and research.

 

 Here come some questions for the pros:

 

 Has anybody of you guys flown and operated

 a Wilga with a radial engine? Are they stable

 and docile aircraft without any bad habits?

 How is the flying and maintaining that ugly thing,

 expensive or reasonable? I have seen them

 also with mufflers so those must have a much

 lower inside noise level - my dog will love that

 part  How is the craftsmanship and the quality,

 better - worse compared to the Yaks and CJs?

 

 Are the PZL-104 reliable air-planes and where

 can one obtain tagged and approved spare parts

 (the Wilga is a certified aircraft in Canada!)?

 

 What do you think about the new Wilga 2000

 with the 300hp Li-Co-Ming flat engine (chinese

 for Lycoming)? Some owners seem to be very

 eager to sell their birds a.s.a.p., even with the

 crankshaft AD already complied with?

 

 Any constructive input on this matter is greatly

 appreciated.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: Flying the Wilga

Thank you everybody for your input, very

informative and helpful.



Thanks to some politicians in the US Government

Canadian warbirds are prohibited from crossing

the border unless one is going to an air-show or

has an invitation of a museum/exhibition. In and

out in a very small time frame and of course direct

flight only. If one does not comply the threat is

shooting one down and unfortunately this is not a joke.

I wanted to do a trip to CA and my aircraft got rejected 



The solution is to buy a certified aircraft like the Wilga, no

major problems in crossing the border except the usual

tedious procedures.



Thank you again.



cheers



Elmar

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: Flying the Wilga

It has been that way for a long time and works both ways. I used to have to

get special flight permits to bring my AN2 or Yak-52 to Canadian fly in's.

Our FBO is 7 miles from the Canadian border and we often get our pilots

chased in by the customs and border patrol. We get several call a month from

homeland security about aircraft that have recently landed and were

somewhere near the Border during their flight here. 

George



--

William Halverson

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: Flying the Wilga

So YK-52's can't fly from Canada to the USA?



They consider that to be a 'warbird'?



Or is it any kind of experimental a/c?





On 12/10/2012 12:46 PM, Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <samira.h(at)shaw.ca>



 Thank you everybody for your input, very

 informative and helpful.



 Thanks to some politicians in the US Government

 Canadian warbirds are prohibited from crossing

 the border unless one is going to an air-show or

 has an invitation of a museum/exhibition. In and

 out in a very small time frame and of course direct

 flight only. If one does not comply the threat is

 shooting one down and unfortunately this is not a joke.

 I wanted to do a trip to CA and my aircraft got rejected 



 The solution is to buy a certified aircraft like the Wilga, no

 major problems in crossing the border except the usual

 tedious procedures.



 Thank you again.



 cheers



 Elmar

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: Flying the Wilga

Welcome to the USSA!

Doc



--

crobin(at)skyvantage.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: Flying the Wilga

I currently own a Wilga.  (wilgabeast.com)



If you have any specific questions not answered here, let me know!  801.599.7715   



I love my Wilga!



Cory.

 



On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Genzlinger, Reade <ReadeG(at)cairnwood.com (ReadeG(at)cairnwood.com)> wrote:

[quote]  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG(at)cairnwood.com (ReadeG(at)cairnwood.com)>

 

 Elmar:

 

 My experience and opinions re: Wilga 104-80 after 8 years of ownership:

         - typical eastern bloc aircraft - over engineered over built

         - very well built - hand work is amazing

         - very tough, very stable aircraft

         - controls are very heavy but very responsive

         - IA 14 R is essentially a de-rated version of M-14P 250 hp vs.

 360 (some have installed the 360 - I've flow one - better climb but no

 faster)

         - very low compression - very easy to hand prop.  Prop is 9"

 longer than YK-52 paddle prop - same profile.

         - maintenance is very typical.  Mine was a 1994 model with very

 little use when I got it.  Had to replace the rubber tips on all the air

 check valves, had to replace the air start distributer (I don't think

 prior owner bled the snot valve very often), and replaced the generator

 with an alternator.  That's about it other than usual wear and tear.

         - parts are not regularly available any more - there is a guy in

 Florida that bought all the Mielex (original US distributor for PZL)

 parts but don't know his status any more.  Engine parts are available -

 many are interchangeable with M-14p.  Air system is similar to YK-52

 except that it uses two 3 liter air bottles for air storage.  The air is

 for start only.

         - climb at 64 kt, cruise at 88, descend at 64 and land at 54.

 Only holds 48 gallons.  My rule of thumb was 2 hours or 200 miles -

         - brakes are hydraulic disc and are OK - not great, but

 perfectly adequate

         - the mufflers were a factory option for European noise

 requirements - they do make it very quiet - I was told it costs about 3%

 in performance.

         - the landing gear is trailing link - very effective.  It's a

 baby on grass and a pig on pavement.  The arm from mains to tail wheel

 is very long so if you don't keep it straight it has a mind of its own.

 

         - It feels like  a lumbering giant and is very stable.

 Visibility is great for rides.

 

 I bought it because I had all the support gear already - same air hook

 up, tools, many parts as Yak, etc. It came with boxes of spare parts,

 control locks, covers, excellent manuals for all systems and the largest

 wheel chocks I've ever seen.  The seats are very comfortable, cockpit is

 very spacious and you can stuff a lot of gear in the back.  Gave it up

 when we moved to Wyoming as it is not a great performer at 9000 plus

 density altitudes.  Went with the Super Cub and Husky.

 

 I do not think PZL/EADS is directly supporting the 80.  Don't know about

 the 2000.

 

 Reade

 

 Reade Genzlinger

 Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation

 215.914.0370

 

 --

skidmk

Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Flying the Wilga

ummmmm,,,, With all due respect to others that have had a different experience....



I have flown  my Chang in the USA alot.  Nvr an issue,, every year I write an fsdo, I get a certificate that is good from March till October,,, and I do as I please.  There are a few little restrictions, but very little and not onerous.



As for flying into the Canada from the US with a us registered "warbird".... same thing,,, no issues!!  My buddy has a fleet of US registered warbirds and he has no problems.  



2 cents, your mileage will vary

_________________
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario

N13472(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: Flying the Wilga

The last time I went to Canada with my nanchang It cost $100.00 for a special

CofA from Transport Canada and the max time in country was 60 days.

 Has this changed? Note I was told by several Canadian W/B pilots that

Most? Transport Canada people did not care if I had the CofA and was

very unlikely I would be asked to show it. But on reentry to the US if

I should be asked for it by US ICE and did not have one then in fact I

was performing an illegal operation and could be fined $5000.00 plus

and the aircraft possibly seized! 



Tom Elliott

CJ-6A NX63727

777 Quartz Ave

PMB 7004

Sandy Valley NV

89019

Cell 702-595-2680



--

Sharky

Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 18
Location: South Africa

Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Flying the Wilga

[quote="ReadeG(at)cairnwood.com"]Elmar:



My experience and opinions re: Wilga 104-80 after 8 years of ownership:

	

This was a very well presented explanation. I also have a Wilga and it is the same story.

Flies like a bird and lands like a brick, it is like a wild horse till you get used to it.

Otherwise beautiful airplane.

Good luck.

Yak Ron

Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Flying the Wilga

[quote="crobin(at)skyvantage.com"]I currently own a Wilga.  (wilgabeast.com)



If you have any specific questions not answered here, let me know!  801.599.7715   



I love my Wilga!



Cory.

 We are assembling a wilga that we inported from Poland a couple months ago.  Have one nagging problem with generator not coming on line. Changed voltage regualtors, no change. Ohmed wires, OK. Schematic doesnt show a small black box that looks like interconnected with generator switch?   Any advice for troubleshooting further would be appreciated. YakRon



On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Genzlinger, Reade <ReadeG> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    --> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG>

 

 Elmar:

 

 My experience and opinions re: Wilga 104-80 after 8 years of ownership:

         - typical eastern bloc aircraft - over engineered over built

         - very well built - hand work is amazing

         - very tough, very stable aircraft

         - controls are very heavy but very responsive

         - IA 14 R is essentially a de-rated version of M-14P 250 hp vs.

 360 (some have installed the 360 - I've flow one - better climb but no

 faster)

         - very low compression - very easy to hand prop.  Prop is 9"

 longer than YK-52 paddle prop - same profile.

         - maintenance is very typical.  Mine was a 1994 model with very

 little use when I got it.  Had to replace the rubber tips on all the air

 check valves, had to replace the air start distributer (I don't think

 prior owner bled the snot valve very often), and replaced the generator

 with an alternator.  That's about it other than usual wear and tear.

         - parts are not regularly available any more - there is a guy in

 Florida that bought all the Mielex (original US distributor for PZL)

 parts but don't know his status any more.  Engine parts are available -

 many are interchangeable with M-14p.  Air system is similar to YK-52

 except that it uses two 3 liter air bottles for air storage.  The air is

 for start only.

         - climb at 64 kt, cruise at 88, descend at 64 and land at 54.

 Only holds 48 gallons.  My rule of thumb was 2 hours or 200 miles -

         - brakes are hydraulic disc and are OK - not great, but

 perfectly adequate

         - the mufflers were a factory option for European noise

 requirements - they do make it very quiet - I was told it costs about 3%

 in performance.

         - the landing gear is trailing link - very effective.  It's a

 baby on grass and a pig on pavement.  The arm from mains to tail wheel

 is very long so if you don't keep it straight it has a mind of its own.

 

         - It feels like  a lumbering giant and is very stable.

 Visibility is great for rides.

 

 I bought it because I had all the support gear already - same air hook

 up, tools, many parts as Yak, etc. It came with boxes of spare parts,

 control locks, covers, excellent manuals for all systems and the largest

 wheel chocks I've ever seen.  The seats are very comfortable, cockpit is

 very spacious and you can stuff a lot of gear in the back.  Gave it up

 when we moved to Wyoming as it is not a great performer at 9000 plus

 density altitudes.  Went with the Super Cub and Husky.

 

 I do not think PZL/EADS is directly supporting the 80.  Don't know about

 the 2000.

 

 Reade

 

 Reade Genzlinger

 Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation

 215.914.0370

 

 --

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