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Switches all upside-down...

 
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mburbidg(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any suggestions!
Michael-


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Can the key be bent 180 deg to face the opposite side of the washer without breaking off?

If it makes you feel any better, many airliners have their switches mounted the way you've done yours. Of course, they're on the overhead panel, so forward is on and aft is off...

Eric
On Dec 25, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Michael Burbidge wrote:
Quote:

I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any suggestions!
Michael


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racerjerry



Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Re: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

I understand your grief. Shhh.., don’t tell anyone else of your mistake. Go ahead and install the switches without the keyed washer; just make sure that you use a star washer on the switch mounting stem, which will keep them from loosening.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Good Morning Eric and Michael,

Is the panel installed yet? How thick is the panel? Did you drill the holes all the way through? Front or back?

One possibility is to just drill new holes. The holes will show no more without the tang in them than they would have with the tang in the hole. If the panel is thick enough, I drill the holes on the back side and not all the way through. I also drill them top and bottom so that I can put in the switch either way. Why do I do that? Because I have been in the same boat you are when I discovered that the manufacturer of a switch or CB I wanted to install used a different protocol than I had planned for. No idea at all as to how to find the upside down washers, but they ARE out there. In any case, it is no disaster. The switches will work very well with no tang on the washer at all. Just make sure they are straight when first installed and it is highly unlikely they will ever come loose. I have done it that way when I did not want to take the time to utilize the keyway and I cannot recall any of the switches loosening enough to turn. Between the wires and being closely spaced, they are unlikely to turn even if they get loose! <G>

Happy Skies,

Old Bob

In a message dated 12/26/2012 1:25:12 A.M. Central Standard Time, edpav8r(at)yahoo.com writes:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>

Can the key be bent 180 deg to face the opposite side of the washer without breaking off?

If it makes you feel any better, many airliners have their switches mounted the way you've done yours. Of course, they're on the overhead panel, so forward is on and aft is off...

Eric
On Dec 25, 2012, at 11:43 PM, Michael Burbidge wrote:
Quote:

I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any suggestions!
Michael


[quote][b]


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tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Hi Michael, I had the same issue, but my tabs were CNC cut into the panel. One would think the lock tab goes up with the switch off and down and that's not always the case. I was able to select different model switches from B&C and correct it. If you study the "all about switches" article Bob has online or in the manual you can probably work it out with a different switch.
Another option is drill new holes, they do not have to go all the way thru. If you make a drill stop or use a drill press you can make new blind holes for the tabs.
Good luck
Tim
Sent from my iPad

On Dec 25, 2012, at 10:43 PM, Michael Burbidge <mburbidg(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:


I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any suggestions!
Michael-






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sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Make a .040 backing plate drilled for the switch holes and the key holes in
the correct position. Mount this backing plate between the panel and the
switches. If the plate is designed to hold more than 1 switch, it will
serve to provide the anti-rotation function.

Alternatively, the SPDT switches that B&C will all work either way, simply
by using the secondary poles on the switch. Wire the power to the center
pole and the load to the bottom pole. This may not work for some of the
other switches, such as the ON-OFF-(ON) switches etc.

Vern

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jonlaury



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Don't feel too bad.
The first NACA duct I cut into a full-length fuselage aluminm skin I carefully did backward with the wide end forward. Not knowing how they worked, I just assumed that the wide end should face the slip stream where it could gather more air Confused Couldn't face the idea of tossing all that carefully drilled aluminum, so I scribed the errant cut-out on another piece of sheet, cut it out, and bonded it to a backing plate. It fit into the hole perfectly and flush rivets through the backing plate made it nice and tidy and it looked almost intentional on the polished skin.
It was amusing to see experienced builders touch and puzzle over the patch.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Don't worry as the active terminal is the one opposite to the Switch Toggle
just swap the Terminals around Bottom to Top on Double Throw Switches.
On Single pole single throw it may be a bit a problem but you could make a
small doubler to take the tag in the opposite sense and just bond the
doubler to the Back of the panel.
Cheers

John MacCallum
VH-DUU
RV 10 # 41016

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

All of the switches on my 1946 Cessna 140 are upside down. Apparently they were made that way at the factory. I just try to get used to it, but given my druthers I would prefer having them mounted in the US convention. I try to check the switches carefully after flying, but on a few occasions I have left the master on. ARRGH!

I like the idea of drilling key holes top and bottom on the panel. As others have pointed out, you can drill blind holes from the back on a thick panel. On a thin panel, you can drill the holes all the way through and use a thin stainless--steel washer (standard electrical hardware) to cover the holes and protect the panel when you use a wrench to tighten the nut.
-----
Lynn Cole
LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net (LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net)



On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:43 AM, Michael Burbidge wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Michael Burbidge <mburbidg(at)gmail.com (mburbidg(at)gmail.com)>

I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any (And Get AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/co     -Matt Dralle, List - The --> http://www.m &n=============


[b]


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mburbidg(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good ideas. In the end, I decided that I wanted to fly sooner rather than later. So I just drilled key holes in the bottom also. Only about half the hole shows on the top. Like you mention, if I find the right washer, I can probably cover the entire hole.

Be there a next time, I will blind drill the holes on the bottom in the back.
Michael-

On Dec 27, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Lynn Cole <LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net (LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net)> wrote:
[quote]All of the switches on my 1946 Cessna 140 are upside down. Apparently they were made that way at the factory. I just try to get used to it, but given my druthers I would prefer having them mounted in the US convention. I try to check the switches carefully after flying, but on a few occasions I have left the master on. ARRGH!

I like the idea of drilling key holes top and bottom on the panel. As others have pointed out, you can drill blind holes from the back on a thick panel. On a thin panel, you can drill the holes all the way through and use a thin stainless--steel washer (standard electrical hardware) to cover the holes and protect the panel when you use a wrench to tighten the nut.
-----
Lynn Cole
LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net (LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net)



On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:43 AM, Michael Burbidge wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Michael Burbidge <mburbidg(at)gmail.com (mburbidg(at)gmail.com)>

I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any (And Get AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/co     -Matt Dralle, List - The --> http://www.m &n=============


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Lynn,
I used the ‘thin .035-.065’ strip behind my switches to allow the tabs to go in the correct place for switch orientation. As long as you have two or more switches side by side, you can avoid rotation. Easier than drilling into the panel itself

Bill Schertz

From: Lynn Cole (LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net)
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:03 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Switches all upside-down...


All of the switches on my 1946 Cessna 140 are upside down. Apparently they were made that way at the factory. I just try to get used to it, but given my druthers I would prefer having them mounted in the US convention. I try to check the switches carefully after flying, but on a few occasions I have left the master on. ARRGH!
I like the idea of drilling key holes top and bottom on the panel. As others have pointed out, you can drill blind holes from the back on a thick panel. On a thin panel, you can drill the holes all the way through and use a thin stainless--steel washer (standard electrical hardware) to cover the holes and protect the panel when you use a wrench to tighten the nut.
-----
Lynn Cole
LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net (LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net)

On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:43 AM, Michael Burbidge wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Michael Burbidge <mburbidg(at)gmail.com (mburbidg(at)gmail.com)>

I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any (And Get AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/co     -Matt Dralle, List - The --> http://www.m &n=============





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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

Contrary to a widely held belief among many homebuilders and most TC manufacturers, my opinion is that airplanes need not make excuses for being airplanes. Sometimes there will be holes, wires, hoses, or hardware that will be visible- this is because simplicity and light weight matter much more in airplanes than they do in luxury cars. Being in the air with an extra lightening hole sounds much better than being on the ground with a panel that most folks wouldn't be able to differentiate from the other without help. I think you made a great choice!

On Dec 27, 2012, at 13:20, Michael Burbidge <mburbidg(at)gmail.com (mburbidg(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Thanks for all the replies. Lots of good ideas. In the end, I decided that I wanted to fly sooner rather than later. So I just drilled key holes in the bottom also. Only about half the hole shows on the top. Like you mention, if I find the right washer, I can probably cover the entire hole.

Be there a next time, I will blind drill the holes on the bottom in the back.
Michael-

On Dec 27, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Lynn Cole <LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net (LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net)> wrote:
Quote:
All of the switches on my 1946 Cessna 140 are upside down.  Apparently they were made that way at the factory. I just try to get used to it, but given my druthers I would prefer having them mounted in the US convention. I try to check the switches carefully after flying, but on a few occasions I have left the master on. ARRGH!

I like the idea of drilling key holes top and bottom on the panel.  As others have pointed out, you can drill blind holes from the back on a thick panel. On a thin panel, you can drill the holes all the way through and use a thin stainless--steel washer (standard electrical hardware) to cover the holes and protect the panel when you use a wrench to tighten the nut.
-----
Lynn Cole
LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net (LynnCole(at)foxvalley.net)



On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:43 AM, Michael Burbidge wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Michael Burbidge <mburbidg(at)gmail.com (mburbidg(at)gmail.com)>

I just mounted my instruments and switches in my beautifully painted panel. To my dismay I discovered that when I cut my panel, many months ago, I drilled the key hole for all my B&C switches on the top instead of the bottom of the main hole. This means that all my switches are upside down. Off is up and on is down. ARG!

I'm thinking I'm going to have to fill the key holes with putty and drill new ones on the bottom. But I thought I'd check real quick to see if there is a alternate keyed washer that would allow be to rotate the switches 180 degrees.

Thanks for any (And Get AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/co     -Matt Dralle, List - The   --> http://www.m   &n=============


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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

If the switches are in a row or several rows drill a plate to go behind the panel as thick as the tang on the anti turn washer. In this plate punch the index holes in the correct location. This is then interposed between the switch with washer and the back of the panel.
On my RV7 all of the switches are mounted to a u channel that is fastened to the panel with 4 screws and spacers. Only the end of the threaded switch bushing goes through the panel and remains flush with the panel. The panel is removable with a few connectors and removing the switch mounting screws. The switches remain connected.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

At 12:56 PM 12/27/2012, you wrote:
Quote:
Lynn,
I used the ‘thin .035-.065’ strip behind my switches to allow the tabs to go in the correct place for switch orientation. As long as you have two or more switches side by side, you can avoid rotation. Easier than drilling into the panel itself

Bill Schertz

Yes. We had this very same discussion some years
back. I think I did a short article suggesting that
a 'drill fixture' be fabricated from a strip of
aluminum that featured #40 drilled centers for
switches and washer tabs. Then use the fixture to
match drill a set of pilot holes in the panel.

Drill out all holes to final size and then use
the 'fixture' on the back side to secure the
locking tabs. It could be assembled with tabs
up or down.

The only toggle switches that are really upside
down are the un-symmetrical devices. I.e., Single
throw or spring loaded to one side. This is why
I only stocked the S700-2-3 switch for single throw
service, it could be wired to function right side up
with the locking tab in either position. The only
time you risk getting 'hosed' is with switches having
spring loading from one side to center. In any case,
making a drill template on the bench assures tighter
location for holes to centers.

Having a tight-tolerance template makes the job
in the airplane go much faster, with greater precision
and accommodates locking tabs without having to
drill the instrument panel.

At one time, I considered offering aluminum strips about
1-1/2" wide center-drilled on a mill to locate the two rows
of holes with great precision. I might still do that.



Bob . . . [quote][b]


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eschlanser



Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

[quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]At 12:56 PM 12/27/2012, you wrote:
Quote:


Yes. We had this very same discussion some years
back. I think I did a short article suggesting that
a 'drill fixture' be fabricated from a strip of
aluminum that featured #40 drilled centers for
switches and washer tabs. Then use the fixture to
match drill a set of pilot holes in the panel.

Having a tight-tolerance template makes the job
in the airplane go much faster, with greater precision
and accommodates locking tabs without having to
drill the instrument panel.

At one time, I considered offering aluminum strips about
1-1/2" wide center-drilled on a mill to locate the two rows
of holes with great precision. I might still do that.



Bob . . .
Quote:
[b]


After some searching, I found this thread in the archives about the drilling fixture subject:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=63686&highlight=switch+hole+drill+fixture

I would be interested in a fixture for drilling switch holes. At the least, a template would help me make it myself.

Eric


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bobnoffs



Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 132
Location: northern wi.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Switches all upside-down... Reply with quote

i made one for my installation when i built my panel. i am sure i got the idea on this forum. easy enough and works great, no tiny holes in the panel.
 bob noffs
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, eschlanser <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com (eschlanser(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "eschlanser" <eschlanser(at)yahoo.com (eschlanser(at)yahoo.com)>

[quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]At 12:56 PM 12/27/2012, you wrote:

>
>

    Yes. We had this very same discussion some years
    back. I think I did a short article suggesting that
    a 'drill fixture' be fabricated from a strip of
    aluminum that featured #40 drilled centers for
    switches and washer tabs. Then use the fixture to
    match drill a set of pilot holes in the panel.

    Having a tight-tolerance template makes the job
    in the airplane go much faster, with greater precision
    and accommodates locking tabs without having to
    drill the instrument panel.

    At one time, I considered offering aluminum strips about
    1-1/2" wide center-drilled on a mill to locate the two rows
    of holes with great precision. I might still do that.



   Bob . . .
> [b]


After some searching, I found this thread in the archives about the drilling fixture subject:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=63686&highlight=switch+hole+drill+fixture



I would be interested in a fixture for drilling switch holes. At the least, a template would help me make it myself.

Eric




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391183#391183







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