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Viking/Honda Engines-Again!

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alienwes

Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: Viking/Honda Engines-Again!

I know that this new engine has been talked about in the past, but it seems they have been shipping out alot of them and it looks like they might be around for the longterm. One the viking yahoo forum there is a guy who says he is seriously considering mounting the Viking on a KOLB.



Jan-

I think it would be great if you looked at the integration of the engine on the

2 place KOLB's. I think it would be an excellent performance fit and I believe

the market, especially retrofit, would be at least as large as the SeaRay. I

could send you pictures or scanes of the drawings offline. The KOLB factory

guys could probably do even better. I am aware of these airplanes with mostly

912's Jabs and 582's, but also 618's, Hirths, Subarus, VW's, and BMW's. I am

not aware of any of them using a conventional welded tubing engine mount. They

bolted from a bottom framework on the engine essentially at the engine

longitudinal CG to 4 Berry/Lord mounts on about a 10 in square horizontal pad at

the aft end of the KOLB cage. If there is available structure for that on the

Viking it would probably be the most structurally efficient option...especially

for those of us with a finished cage and looking at a retrofit from the Rotax

configuration.



Bob



Might be another alternative to the costly 912?

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_________________
Wesley Elliott
Sport Pilot-PPC

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:15 pm Post subject: Viking/Honda Engines-Again!

Wes



You are asking a lot of interesting questions. That's good. A new engine on a airplane is from personal experience a lot of time and effort. Seemed like everything needed to be designed and built for that engine/air frame. Check the engine weight closely, it is real tough to beat the power/weight of a 912. Engine manufacturers are notorious for under reporting their operational weight. Additional weight means less load carrying capacity so you could end up with a single passenger airplane or worse. Engine mounts and exhaust systems are a nightmare and don't expect to have a engine or airplane manufacture to design one for you without a proven market opportunity. Seemingly easy things like prop selection and reduction ratios are very difficult to get right the first or second time. Bottom line it is easy to spend more than the cost of a 912 and not have as good a engine or worse.

 



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 7:42 PM, alienwes <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 I know that this new engine has been talked about in the past, but it seems they have been shipping out alot of them and it looks like they might be around for the longterm. One the viking yahoo forum there is a guy who says he is seriously considering mounting the Viking on a KOLB.

  

 Jan-

 I think it would be great if you looked at the integration of the engine on the

 2 place KOLB's. I think it would be an excellent performance fit and I believe

 the market, especially retrofit, would be at least as large as the SeaRay. I

 could send you pictures or scanes of the drawings offline. The KOLB factory

 guys could probably do even better. I am aware of these airplanes with mostly

 912's Jabs and 582's, but also 618's, Hirths, Subarus, VW's, and BMW's. I am

 not aware of any of them using a conventional welded tubing engine mount. They

 bolted from a bottom framework on the engine essentially at the engine

 longitudinal CG to 4 Berry/Lord mounts on about a 10 in square horizontal pad at

 the aft end of the KOLB cage. If there is available structure for that on the

 Viking it would probably be the most structurally efficient option...especially

 for those of us with a finished cage and looking at a retrofit from the Rotax

 configuration.

 

 Bob

 

 Might be another alternative to the costly 912?

 

 --------

 Wesley Elliott

 Sport Pilot-PPC

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391684#391684

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:21 pm Post subject: Viking/Honda Engines-Again!

It's also good to take a very close       look at the vendor. That particular vendor has a long track record       (that, with a different name, precedes the Viking project &       has a much longer record). Your mission, should you choose to       accept it, is to determine what that track record is. 

       

       Charlie

       

       

       On 01/05/2013 10:15 PM, Rick Neilsen wrote:

     

     [quote]Wes       

       

       You are asking a lot of interesting questions. That's good. A         new engine on a airplane is from personal experience a lot of         time and effort. Seemed like everything needed to be designed         and built for that engine/air frame. Check the engine         weight closely, it is real tough to beat the power/weight of a         912. Engine manufacturers are notorious for under reporting         their operational weight. Additional weight means less         load carrying capacity so you could end up with a single         passenger airplane or worse. Engine mounts and exhaust systems         are a nightmare and don't expect to have a engine or airplane         manufacture to design one for you without a proven         market opportunity. Seemingly easy things like prop selection         and reduction ratios are very difficult to get right the first         or second time. Bottom line it is easy to spend more than the         cost of a 912 and not have as good a engine or worse.

       

       

       Rick Neilsen

       Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

         

         On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 7:42 PM,           alienwes <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  -->             Kolb-List message posted by: "alienwes" <elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com (elliott.wesley(at)yahoo.com)>

             

             I know that this new engine has been talked about in the             past, but it seems they have been shipping out alot of them             and it looks like they might be around for the longterm. One             the viking yahoo forum there is a guy who says he is             seriously considering mounting the Viking on a KOLB.

             

             Jan-

             I think it would be great if you looked at the integration             of the engine on the

             2 place KOLB's. I think it would be an excellent performance             fit and I believe

             the market, especially retrofit, would be at least as large             as the SeaRay. I

             could send you pictures or scanes of the drawings offline.             The KOLB factory

             guys could probably do even better. I am aware of these             airplanes with mostly

             912's Jabs and 582's, but also 618's, Hirths, Subarus, VW's,             and BMW's. I am

             not aware of any of them using a conventional welded tubing             engine mount. They

             bolted from a bottom framework on the engine essentially at             the engine

             longitudinal CG to 4 Berry/Lord mounts on about a 10 in             square horizontal pad at

             the aft end of the KOLB cage. If there is available             structure for that on the

             Viking it would probably be the most structurally efficient             option...especially

             for those of us with a finished cage and looking at a             retrofit from the Rotax

             configuration.

             

             Bob

             

             Might be another alternative to the costly 912?

             

             --------

             Wesley Elliott

             Sport Pilot-PPC

           	
         

       

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