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Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

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tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:10 am Post subject: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Gidday again,

I've already received a private message telling me of other airframes with the problem of the lift pin plates being in the wrong place within the fuselage moulding. Comment was passed about the suitability of car bog, polyester based, with our epoxy layups, and the PFA's view of its suitability under compressive load. Anticipating some negative commentary I would like to make the following respectful comments. Those doubters I'd like to ask, have you ever tried to remove car bog from something? My lower fuselage jig is bonded to the floor to keep it level and true. I needed to use a chisel and a lot of effort to remove it. Now a chisel is a very concentrated force, and I can guarantee the load exerted by the fuselage facing "face" of a rear lift pin socket would need an exorbitant amount of force to compress an entrapped amount of this polyester resin based filler. Also, once encapsulated  in 4 plies of BID, whether it sticks to the BId or not, my belief is it will be there forever. I believe there is a greater likelihood of it being there in 50 years than plywood. Why didn't Europa use it as a medium in their manual? I believe because it was possibly overlooked, and did not have a historical base in aircraft structures. Personally, if it is inert, doesn't age or shrink, is easily workable into complex shapes, or be sanded and shaped into such, I'd be happy with it in my bird, with my kids on board. So, a bit of a vent really, but I am irritated I have to use an in exact method on some preconception it will be better, when I think it won't. Mind you, Downunder like the US, I am allowed to make structural modifications. I'm tempted, but my conservative pilot nature brings me here first. 
	


Regards

Tony Renshaw

Frustrated Aussie

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:11 am Post subject: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

Not commenting on chemistries, but if we are talking about the rear lift sockets, it is my understanding that the rear pins are under tension during accelerated flight (like a pull-up) preventing the wings from folding forward.



Cheers,

Pete

A239



On Jun 2, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

> Gidday again,

 I've already received a private message telling me of other airframes with the problem of the lift pin plates being in the wrong place within the fuselage moulding. Comment was passed about the suitability of car bog, polyester based, with our epoxy layups, and the PFA's view of its suitability under compressive load. Anticipating some negative commentary I would like to make the following respectful comments. Those doubters I'd like to ask, have you ever tried to remove car bog from something? My lower fuselage jig is bonded to the floor to keep it level and true. I needed to use a chisel and a lot of effort to remove it. Now a chisel is a very concentrated force, and I can guarantee the load exerted by the fuselage facing "face" of a rear lift pin socket would need an exorbitant amount of force to compress an entrapped amount of this polyester resin based filler. Also, once encapsulated  in 4 plies of BID, whether it sticks to the BId or not, my belief is it will be there !

 forever. I believe there is a greater likelihood of it being there in 50 years than plywood. Why didn't Europa use it as a medium in their manual? I believe because it was possibly overlooked, and did not have a historical base in aircraft structures. Personally, if it is inert, doesn't age or shrink, is easily workable into complex shapes, or be sanded and shaped into such, I'd be happy with it in my bird, with my kids on board. So, a bit of a vent really, but I am irritated I have to use an in exact method on some preconception it will be better, when I think it won't. Mind you, Downunder like the US, I am allowed to make structural modifications. I'm tempted, but my conservative pilot nature brings me here first. 

 Regards

 Tony Renshaw

 Frustrated Aussie

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:53 am Post subject: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

Tony

don't use bondo, it's a polyester resin and doesn't bond to epoxy. Also, it's under tension. However, there is an aluminium plate under it bonded between the inner and outer skins. It's there to spread the load and some of the early ones weren't in the right place. The hole for the lift pin bolt should be close to the centre of the plate.

Are you incorporating the weight up grade mod? Strongly recommend it, the forward lift load will then be taken by the tube

across to the other side.

Have a chat with Kingsley?

Graham





        From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>

 To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com" <europa-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Sunday, 2 June 2013, 14:09

 Subject: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com (tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com)>



 	  Quote: 	
		   Gidday again,

I've already received a private message telling me of other airframes with the problem of the lift pin plates being in the wrong place within the fuselage moulding. Comment was passed about the suitability of car bog, polyester based, with our epoxy layups, and the PFA's view of its suitability under  compressive load. Anticipating some negative commentary I would like to make the following respectful comments. Those doubters I'd like to ask, have you ever tried to remove car bog from something? My lower fuselage jig is bonded to the floor to keep it level and true. I needed to use a chisel and a lot of effort to remove it. Now a chisel is a very concentrated force, and I can guarantee the load exerted by the fuselage facing "face" of a rear lift pin socket would need an exorbitant amount of force to compress an entrapped amount of this polyester resin based filler. Also, once encapsulated  in 4 plies of BID, whether it sticks to the BId or not, my belief is it will be there !
	


 forever. I believe there is a greater likelihood of it being there in 50 years than plywood. Why didn't Europa use it as a medium in their manual? I believe because it was possibly overlooked, and did not have a historical base in aircraft structures. Personally, if it  is inert, doesn't age or shrink, is easily workable into complex shapes, or be sanded and shaped into such, I'd be happy with it in my bird, with my kids on board. So, a bit of a vent really, but I am irritated I have to use an in exact method on some preconception it will be better, when I think it won't. Mind you, Downunder like the US, I am allowed to make structural modifications. I'm tempted, but my conservative pilot nature brings me here //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" ="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics                    &nbsptronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri================

 

  

  

 [quote][b]

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:19 am Post subject: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

Correct

Graham

        From: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>

 To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com" <europa-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Sunday, 2 June 2013, 16:10

 Subject: Re: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

--> Europa-List message posted by: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)>

Not commenting on chemistries, but if we are talking about the rear lift sockets, it is my understanding that the rear pins are under tension during accelerated flight (like a pull-up) preventing the wings from folding forward.

Cheers,

Pete

A239

On Jun 2, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com (tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com (tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com)>

> Gidday again,

 I've already received a private message telling me of other airframes with the problem of the lift pin plates being in the wrong place within the fuselage moulding. Comment was passed about the suitability of car bog, polyester based,  with our epoxy layups, and the PFA's view of its suitability under compressive load. Anticipating some negative commentary I would like to make the following respectful comments. Those doubters I'd like to ask, have you ever tried to remove car bog from something? My lower fuselage jig is bonded to the floor to keep it level and true. I needed to use a chisel and a lot of effort to remove it. Now a chisel is a very concentrated force, and I can guarantee the load exerted by the fuselage facing "face" of a rear lift pin socket would need an exorbitant amount of force to compress an entrapped amount of this polyester resin based filler. Also, once encapsulated  in 4 plies of BID, whether it sticks to the BId or not, my belief is it will be ther!

 e !

 	  Quote: 	
		   forever. I believe there is a greater likelihood of it being there in 50 years than plywood. Why didn't Europa use it as a medium in their manual? I believe because it was possibly overlooked,  and did not have a historical base in aircraft structures. Personally, if it is inert, doesn't age or shrink, is easily workable into complex shapes, or be sanded and shaped into such, I'd be happy with it in my bird, with my kids on board. So, a bit of a vent really, but I am irritated I have to use an in exact method on some preconception it will be better, when I think it won't. Mind you, Downunder like the US, I am allowed to make structural modifications. I'm tempted, but my conservative pilot nature brings me here first. 

 Regards

 Tony Renshaw

 Frustrated Aussie<brh & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, gt; http://forums.matronics.com

;                   -Matt Dralcontribution" =======

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:24 am Post subject: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.

< Have a chat with Kingsley?

< Graham

  

 He never believes me Graham! and makes  comments like "you are so mean to  me"

  

 In jest of course!

  

 Hope you and Joan are keeping well 

  

 Cheers

 Kingsley

  

 do not archive

   [quote][b]

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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