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mbanus(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:50 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Bob,
Do to W&B considerations I am moving my 2 Panasonic 1220 batteries 8' aft. I had originally used #4 as the runs were all short, 18" or less(all forward of the firewall). The batteries were initially mounted on the forward firewall.
As the cable runs are now 9' I intend to use #2 welding cable. Yesterday another builder stopped by to "review many progress" and said welding cable might not be a good choice aft of the firewall as welding cable gives of poisonous fumes if it burns.
Comments?
Mark Banus
Glasair SIIS FT
N600
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:55 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Bob,
Do to W&B considerations I am moving my 2 Panasonic 1220 batteries 8' aft. I had originally used #4 as the runs were all short, 18" or less(all forward of the firewall). The batteries were initially mounted on the forward firewall.
As the cable runs are now 9' I intend to use #2 welding cable. Yesterday another builder stopped by to "review many progress" and said welding cable might not be a good choice aft of the firewall as welding cable gives of poisonous fumes if it burns.
Comments?
When ANY insulation burns, the products of
combustion are exceedingly unfriendly
to children and other living things.
There are folks who make it their life's
work to 'reduce risk' . . . even to the point
of codifying their profundities and threatening
you with retribution for regulatory
transgression.
In THIS case: What conditions would cause the
insulation on these cables to burn? Electrical
overload is one . . . externally applied fire
is the other.
The risks for electrically induced overload are
so tiny that certified iron of all sizes does
not add overload protection to these wires.
In FAR23.1357 we find these words:
Sec. 23.1357 Circuit protective devices.
(a) Protective devices, such as fuses or circuit breakers, must be
installed in all electrical circuits other than--
(1) Main circuits of starter motors used during starting only; and
(2) Circuits in which no hazard is presented by their omission.
If you've got active fire in the aircraft
that threatens to ignite your wire's insulation,
then I suggest your risk issues go far beyond
any concerns for the quality of the smoke.
Bottom line is that while those-who-know-more-
about-airplanes-than-we-do will prohibit certain
insulations in new design, they still permit
an older airplane to be repaired with the SAME
insulations that were on the original type
certificate.
For example, a 1946 C-140 wired with cotton over
rubber wire or a 1968 C-172 wired with nylon over
PVC can be repaired with the same wire. If the
admonitions for controlling cockpit pollution
were imperatives, then one would think that any
airplane brought in for repairs should be
completely re-wired.
The short answer is that risks to your future
well being due to poor selection of insulation
are vanishingly small compared to risks
for bird strike, wind shear . . . or running
out of fuel.
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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Bill Allen
Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 42
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:45 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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I found that #2 wire is also very heavy, and used the "fatwire" from perehelion designs; see http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm
Bill Allen
Cozy4 EGBJ UK
On 23 June 2013 13:50, Mark Banus <mbanus(at)hotmail.com (mbanus(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Bob,
Do to W&B considerations I am moving my 2 Panasonic 1220 batteries 8' aft. I had originally used #4 as the runs were all short, 18" or less(all forward of the firewall). The batteries were initially mounted on the forward firewall.
As the cable runs are now 9' I intend to use #2 welding cable. Yesterday another builder stopped by to "review many progress" and said welding cable might not be a good choice aft of the firewall as welding cable gives of poisonous fumes if it burns.
Comments?
Mark Banus
Glasair SIIS FT
N600
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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ramjetwiebe(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Please, can I say something?
My first comment may be, "What doesn't produce noxious fumes when it burns?"
Well, a goodly amount of welding cable, it seems. It just doesn't burn.
Some does. One insulation for welding wire is treated neoprene rubber. I remember some time ago (when I was a chemical rep) there was a big discussion on the use of ETU (Ethylene Thiouria sp?) as it was used in the vulcanization process. (There may be other methods in use now.) And neoprene rubber burns.
EPDM does not.
BTW, both come in red and I can't tell you why so few use this colour on their + battery runs.
What is not supposed to burn is EPDM. Ethylene propylene diene monomer is, I think, the most common store bought welding cable insulation. The price for a brand name is roughly the same as for neoprene. However, I (that would be me but you have your own choices to make) would not use EPDM in this application as it has significantly lower resistance to grease and oil than neoprene. Apart from that, EPDM and neoprene are pretty much equal in strength, abrasion resistance and so on so FFW I would have no temptation to use EPDM - except that EPDM is not supposed to be flammable. Much of the surplus welding cable I have encountered seems to be neoprene, but I wouldn't count on it. (They both come in different colours and finishes.) So, with EPDM, no poisonous fumes. It doesn't burn. Put that in your pipe and try and smoke it!
The neoprene cable I am most familiar with is the Carol Brand made stuff (now General Cable.) General Cable makes even more rugged wire, but I have never seen it in use - only on sample boards. In the spec sheets, GC calls US made Carolprene flame resistant. The big welding stores sell this stuff by the light year.
I do know that Carolprene finds its way inside mines, factories, etc. where there are going to be major concerns in the case of fire. I have been around this or similar products most of my life and have never seen it burn. Granted, I have never intentionally taken a torch to the stuff but I can tell you it exists in seriously harsh environments. (It pulls back if you solder it with a torch so I learned to make good crimps. That's one expensive(!) crimper [so borrow] but I was always able to find good terminals surplus. DKW.)
Next time I see a wire rep, I'll ask if he can give me the burn temperature for the insulation. A brief hunt http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a35803d9eb8.pdf reveals that plain ol' neoprene "burns" (flashpoint, open cup) at above F500 (C260) degrees. For reference, wood burns at about C300 degrees. The fumes from neoprene ARE toxic and noxious. They can cause permanent lung damage.
Even though EPDM is NOT flammable it's maximum listed service temp is C150 degrees. So if you want, run as much as you like inside your aircraft and dare your buddies to burn it. Under the hood, EPDM does find it's way into ignition wires, but to my mind this is an item you replace every annual. If you build nose heavy and put your battery(s) in the tail, then this might be just the place to run EPDM!
More importantly, I think, than insulation is wire strand size. I have seen a LOT of very heavy strand stuff called welding cable even though it would never be tolerated. Acceptable stranding should be no larger than 0.010. All the good stuff is.
In addition to Bob's comments about fusing: I guess you could always put in a fusible link if you REALLY felt the need. This just seems like an additional and unnecessary failure point (more connections) to me. I wouldn't do it. ( Aside: As a teen, I had a '74 Mazda Rotary with a failed fuse link that took me days to find. They also ran all the current through the ammeter; something I learned not to do thanks to that experience.)
In the one aircraft I have built and the two projects I am working on, I installed a cable or rod operated mechanical battery switch and no solenoid. (A switch needs no current to stay on.) Either way, I don't know if I would remember to turn off an ignition switch or flip a battery switch (and turn off the fuel and turn off the fuel pump and so on) if I was in a hurry to get out of the way. Maybe that requires practice on my part. I remember reading a tale of a WW2 pilot who bailed out and felt cheated at just that moment as in all his training they never even gave him a minutes instruction - let alone practice - on how to deplane ("Not now, Tatoo. I'm busy admiring the Corinthian Leather seats in my Volare."*) when he wasn't on the ground.
All this conversation about safety... How many of us wear a parachute?
*"De plane, Boss! De plane!" If this makes no sense to you, I feel very old.
Neoprene does not appear to be a trademark, hence I avoided capitalization as it is a generic term.
-Robert
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 6:55:03 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: #2 Welding Cable
Bob,
Do to W&B considerations I am moving my 2 Panasonic 1220 batteries 8' aft. I had originally used #4 as the runs were all short, 18" or less(all forward of the firewall). The batteries were initially mounted on the forward firewall.
As the cable runs are now 9' I intend to use #2 welding cable. Yesterday another builder stopped by to "review many progress" and said welding cable might not be a good choice aft of the firewall as welding cable gives of poisonous fumes if it burns.
Comments?
When ANY insulation burns, the products of
combustion are exceedingly unfriendly
to children and other living things.
There are folks who make it their life's
work to 'reduce risk' . . . even to the point
of codifying their profundities and threatening
you with retribution for regulatory
transgression.
In THIS case: What conditions would cause the
insulation on these cables to burn? Electrical
overload is one . . . externally applied fire
is the other.
The risks for electrically induced overload are
so tiny that certified iron of all sizes does
not add overload protection to these wires.
In FAR23.1357 we find these words:
Sec. 23.1357 Circuit protective devices.
(a) Protective devices, such as fuses or circuit breakers, must be
installed in all electrical circuits other than--
(1) Main circuits of starter motors used during starting only; and
(2) Circuits in which no hazard is presented by their omission.
If you've got active fire in the aircraft
that threatens to ignite your wire's insulation,
then I suggest your risk issues go far beyond
any concerns for the quality of the smoke.
Bottom line is that while those-who-know-more-
about-airplanes-than-we-do will prohibit certain
insulations in new design, they still permit
an older airplane to be repaired with the SAME
insulations that were on the original type
certificate.
For example, a 1946 C-140 wired with cotton over
rubber wire or a 1968 C-172 wired with nylon over
PVC can be repaired with the same wire. If the
admonitions for controlling cockpit pollution
were imperatives, then one would think that any
airplane brought in for repairs should be
completely re-wired.
The short answer is that risks to your future
well being due to poor selection of insulation
are vanishingly small compared to risks
for bird strike, wind shear . . . or running
out of fuel.
Bob . . .
[quote]
lank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://t; http://www.matronics.com/contrib===============
[b]
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n801bh(at)NetZero.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:28 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Personally I agree with Bob...... If you have a fire burning to the extent of worrying about fumes coming off the insulation jacket, you have your priorities wrong.......
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
--------
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Eric M. Jones
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:28 am Post subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable |
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I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.
Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
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| Description: |
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Download |
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Copper cables_Aluminum cables.pdf |
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154.49 KB |
| Downloaded: |
432 Time(s) |
_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net |
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wynaire(at)citlink.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:11 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever 
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
[quote]
From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.
Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdfhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp; ums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/
_; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Eric M. Jones
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:33 am Post subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable |
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| Quote: | | ...This may be a "loose cannon" question...In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe! ...Mike W |
What a wonderful question! In fact, there are exactly and precisely as many electrons returning as got sent out. Electrons don't go back to "battery rehab" for another trip. The true picture is far more complicated, and if you decided you wanted to know, you'd never finish your airplane.
In a metal airplane, letting the metal body carry the ground current is possible but not to be undertaken without some serious engineering work, and might change over time. Letting the metal tube frame carry the ground current likewise is problematic.
See attached.
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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| Description: |
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Download |
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Dabbling with Electricity.pdf |
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248.25 KB |
| Downloaded: |
458 Time(s) |
_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net |
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henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:52 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not true.
Henador Titzoff
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net" <wynaire(at)citlink.net>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
[quote]
From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.
Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp; ums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/
_; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://wt; http://www.matronics.com/contrib===============
[b]
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jay(at)horriblehyde.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Correct; whilst the relative voltage changes in a series circuit, the current stays the same throughout the circuit. We size cables by considering the current through them, and the voltage drop incurred across the line until it gets to the load; the current being the primary factor. Since the current is the same throughout the circuit the return line must be the same size as the supply line.
Johannesburg Jay
PS I think that it was Kirchoff’s law and not Krucshev’s J
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff
Sent: 25 June 2013 07:51 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not true.
Henador Titzoff
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
| Quote: | | [/url][url=http://forums.matronics.co=][/url][url=http://forums.matronics.co=] |
01234567890123
[quote][b]
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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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It was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in engineering.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:51 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not true.
Henador Titzoff
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
| Quote: | | [/url][url=http://forums.matronics.co=][/url][url=http://forums.matronics.co=] |
0123456789012
[quote][b]
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wynaire(at)citlink.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
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Thanks for your clear reply to my [humor intended] question. Ironic that you mention the ex-USSR president, as he remains a hero to some friends [USSR], primarily for trying to get corn started in the countryside. Better it had been "popcorn." I still enjoy watching kids eyes when popping in a bag of micro-waveable corn for them, on visits [Belarus]. Mank
[quote]
From: Jay Hyde <jay(at)horriblehyde.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Correct; whilst the relative voltage changes in a series circuit, the current stays the same throughout the circuit. We size cables by considering the current through them, and the voltage drop incurred across the line until it gets to the load; the current being the primary factor. Since the current is the same throughout the circuit the return line must be the same size as the supply line.
Johannesburg Jay
PS I think that it was Kirchoff’s law and not Krucshev’s J
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff
Sent: 25 June 2013 07:51 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not true.
Henador Titzoff
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
| Quote: | | [/url][url=http://forums.matronics.co=/][/url][url=http://forums.matronics.co=/] |
01234567890123
[b] 4[/b][/b]
[b]
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
|
|
Kruschev's Law says: "Politicians are the same everywhere, they want to build you a bridge when you have no river."
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Rob Housman <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com (rob(at)hyperion-ef.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
It was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in engineering.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:51 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not true.
Henador Titzoff
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
[u][/u]
012 345 67890 12
3
|
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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wtmills
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 32
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
|
|
Hey Henador -
Good joke - too much damage control but I get it now (I am also prepared to accept "EE decrees" as another joke . . ?).
All is well -
Bill
SF bay area
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]John, actually it's Kirchoff's voltage and current laws. He formulated them in 1845, which is way back before we had EE decrees.
When I arrived on the crypto scene in 1969, the old timers had been calling them Khrushchev's voltage and current laws as a JOKE. Do you guys get it? Both names start with a K and kinda sound alike unless you're German or Russian. Then they don't.
Â
Henador Titzoff
From: "john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com (john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com)" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com (john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com)>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:30 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Kirchoffs law I think you mean. The sum of the current flowing into a node is equal to the sum of the current flowing out of a node. Or in other words you need the same size cables.
Cheers
John MacCallum
Sent from my HTC One XL on the Telstra 4G network
----- Reply message -----
From: "Henador Titzoff" <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Date: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 01:51
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not true.
Â
Henador Titzoff
________________________________
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
| Quote: | Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
|
| Quote: |
I've been selling
Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.
|
>
| Quote: | Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
>
|
| Quote: | All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
>
|
| Quote: | _; Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matron=======
|
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
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neal.george(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
|
|
Wasn't Krucshev the guy with the shoe...?
Neal George
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2013, at 1:57 PM, "Rob Housman" <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com> wrote:
[quote] It was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in engineering
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henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
|
|
Yes, Neal, everybody thought Krushchev was a heel, but he had a lot of sole.
Henador Titzoff
From: Neal George <neal.george(at)gmail.com>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Wasn't Krucshev the guy with the shoe...?
Neal GeorgeSent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2013, at 1:57 PM, "Rob Housman" <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com (rob(at)hyperion-ef.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | It was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in engineering.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:51 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not true.
Henador Titzoff
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
012345678901
2[/b]
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3
[quote][b]
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fly4grins(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:49 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
|
|
And I though I was getting old!
| Quote: | From: Neal George <neal.george(at)gmail.com (neal.george(at)gmail.com)> >Wasn't Krucshev the guy with the shoe...?
|
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 6:58 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
[quote]*
=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2013-06-25&Archive=AeroElectric
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2013-06-25&Archive=AeroElectric
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
----------------------------------------------------------
AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 06/25/13: 14
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:20 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/24/13 (D L Josephson)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: #2 Welding Cable (Eric M. Jones)
3. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net))
4. 10:35 AM - Re: #2 Welding Cable (Eric M. Jones)
5. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (Henador Titzoff)
6. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (Jay Hyde)
7. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (Rob Housman)
8. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net))
9. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (Richard Girard)
10. 03:31 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0OiBSZTogIzIgV2VsZGluZyBDYWJsZQ==? (=?utf-8?B?am9obi5tYWNjYWxsdW1AYmlncG9uZC5jb20=?=)
11. 04:15 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0OiDvu79SZTogQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxp?= =?utf-8?B?c3Q6IFJlOiAjMiBXZWxkaW5nIENhYmxl? (Henador Titzoff)
12. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (Bill)
13. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (Neal George)
14. 07:37 PM - Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable (Henador Titzoff)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 01:20:53 AM PST US
From: D L Josephson <dlj04(at)josephson.com (dlj04(at)josephson.com)>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/24/13
> From: Chuck Birdsall<cbirdsall6(at)cox.net (cbirdsall6(at)cox.net)>
> Subject: ELT antenna location
>
>
> I'm putting a 406MHz ELT (ACK E-04) in my Piper Cherokee in place of
> dead OE Narco.
>
> One of the statements in the installation manual - and in other
> references such as AC43.13-2 and antenna manufacturers - says that the
> ELT antenna should be at least 36 inches from a Com antenna. Key word:
> Should.
(snip)
>
> So the questions are:
> Am I going to have to move the Com 2 antenna?
> What are the risk factors if I leave the antenna locations as they are?
My suggestion is that it will be just fine, assuming that you use the
antenna supplied with the E-04. The comm will be affected just as it was
with the other ELT antenna there, or maybe a little less. The ELT
radiation pattern will be affected, but I would think only slightly, and
not at all on 406 MHz. The only risk factor I can think of is that there
might be a little more potential for intermodulation if you are
transmitting on Com 2 while the ELT is transmitting, but that's a highly
unlikely scenario.
--
David Josephson
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 05:29:16 AM PST US
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many
many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.
Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech polyester
insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8 uses
a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons, racecars,
helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
[url=tel:%28508%29%20764-2072](508) 764-2072[/url]
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 10:11:27 AM PST US
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,=0AThis may be a "loose canon" question..=0AIn a glass/plastic a
ircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]?- Seems
in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than
going out..., hence the-allowance-for a smaller pipe! =0AThanks in adv
ance,=0AMike W=0ALNC2 360 builder forever =0APS: Your heavy cabling is on
my list of must have items. =0A************=0A=0A=0A>_____________________
___________=0A> From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>To: aeroelectr
ic-list(at)matronics.com (ic-list(at)matronics.com) =0A>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM=0A>Subject:
Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A> =0A>=0A>--> AeroElectric-List
message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>=0A>I've been s
elling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many many h
appy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.=0A>=0A
>Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tec
h polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Supe
r-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others
).=0A>=0A>All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in ballo
ons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.=0A>=0A
>I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.=0A>
=0A>--------=0A>Eric M. Jones=0A>www.PerihelionDesign.com=0A>113 Brentwood
Drive=0A>Southbridge, MA 01550=0A>[url=tel:%28508%29%20764-2072](508) 764-2072[/url]=0A>emjones(at)charter.net
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matro
nics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Attachments:
=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_72
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, L
==========0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 10:35:36 AM PST US
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
> ...This may be a "loose cannon" question...In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both
polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there
are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the
allowance for a smaller pipe! ...Mike W
What a wonderful question! In fact, there are exactly and precisely as many electrons
returning as got sent out. Electrons don't go back to "battery rehab" for
another trip. The true picture is far more complicated, and if you decided
you wanted to know, you'd never finish your airplane.
In a metal airplane, letting the metal body carry the ground current is possible
but not to be undertaken without some serious engineering work, and might change
over time. Letting the metal tube frame carry the ground current likewise
is problematic.
See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
[url=tel:%28508%29%20764-2072](508) 764-2072[/url]
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403408#403408
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electricity_385.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electricity_360.pdf
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 10:52:08 AM PST US
From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,=0A=0AAccording to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say be
low is not true.=0A-=0A=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0A From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>=0ATo: "aeroe
lectric-list(at)matronics.com (lectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)> =0ASent: Tues
day, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: #2 Welding
Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AHello Eric,=0AThis may be a "loose canon" question..=0AI
n a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same siz
e [dia.]?- Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back t
o the battery" than going out..., hence the-allowance-for a smaller pip
e! =0AThanks in advance,=0AMike W=0ALNC2 360 builder forever =0APS: Your
heavy cabling is on my list of must have items. =0A************=0A=0A=0AFro
m: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.c
om =0A>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM=0A>Subject: AeroElectric-List:
Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>=0A>I've been selling=0A Copper-cla
d-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many many happy users on the
Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.=0A>=0A>Sizes Super-2-CC
A and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech polyester insul
ation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8 uses a TFE "T
efzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).=0A>=0A>All of
these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons, racecars, he
licopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.=0A>=0A>I will gladly se
nd a free sample to interested builders. See attached.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>E
ric M. Jones=0A>www.PerihelionDesign.com=0A>113 Brentwood Drive=0A>Southbri
dge, MA 01550=0A>[url=tel:%28508%29%20764-2072](508) 764-2072[/url]=0A>emjones(at)charter.net=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtop
ic.php?p=403388#403388=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Attachments: =0A>=0A>http://for
ums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp; - - - -=0Aums.matronics.com/"
target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/=0A>_; - - - - -
- - - - -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matron
=======
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 11:49:07 AM PST US
From: "Jay Hyde" <jay(at)horriblehyde.com (jay(at)horriblehyde.com)>
Subject: RE: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Correct; whilst the relative voltage changes in a series circuit, the
current stays the same throughout the circuit. We size cables by
considering the current through them, and the voltage drop incurred across
the line until it gets to the load; the current being the primary factor.
Since the current is the same throughout the circuit the return line must be
the same size as the supply line.
Johannesburg Jay
PS I think that it was Kirchoff's law and not Krucshev's J
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: 25 June 2013 07:51 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not
true.
Henador Titzoff
_____
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same
size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back
to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
<emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years.
Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it
too.
Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech
polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8
uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons,
racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
[url=tel:%28508%29%20764-2072](508) 764-2072[/url]
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp;
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf>
ums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/
_; -Matt Dralcontribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://wt;
http://www.matronics.com/contrib==============
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
Forum -
to browse
Un/Subscription,
Chat, FAQ,
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________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 11:58:29 AM PST US
From: "Rob Housman" <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com (rob(at)hyperion-ef.com)>
Subject: RE: Re: #2 Welding Cable
It was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in engineering.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Mike,
According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not
true.
Henador Titzoff
_____
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Hello Eric,
This may be a "loose canon" question..
In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same
size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back
to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
Thanks in advance,
Mike W
LNC2 360 builder forever
PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
************
From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
<emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years.
Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it
too.
Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tech
polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super-8
uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons,
racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
[url=tel:%28508%29%20764-2072](508) 764-2072[/url]
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp;
<http://forums.matronics.com/files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf>
ums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/
_; -Matt Dralcontribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://wt;
http://www.matronics.com/contrib==============
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
<http://forums.matronics.co=>
Forum -
to browse
Un/Subscription,
Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 01:09:41 PM PST US
From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Thanks for your clear reply to my [humor intended] question. Ironic that yo
u mention the ex-USSR president, as he remains a hero to some friends [USSR
], primarily for trying to get corn started in the countryside. Better it h
ad been "popcorn." I still enjoy watching kids eyes when popping in a bag o
f micro-waveable corn for them, on visits [Belarus].=C2-=C2- Mank=0A=0A
=0A>________________________________=0A> From: Jay Hyde <jay(at)horriblehyde.c
om>=0A>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) =0A>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013
12:48 PM=0A>Subject: RE: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A> =0A>
=0A>=0A>Correct; whilst the relative voltage changes in a series circuit, t
he current stays the same throughout the circuit.=C2- We size cables by c
onsidering the current through them, and the voltage drop incurred across t
he line until it gets to the load; the current being the primary factor.=C2
- Since the current is the same throughout the circuit the return line mu
st be the same size as the supply line.=0A>=C2-=0A>Johannesburg Jay=0A>PS
I think that it was Kirchoff=99s law and not Krucshev=99s=C2
- J=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>From:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.
com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Hena
dor Titzoff=0A>Sent: 25 June 2013 07:51 PM=0A>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matroni
cs.com=0A>Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A>=C2-=0A
>Mike,=0A>=0A>According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say
below is not true.=0A>=C2-=0A>Henador Titzoff=0A>=0A>___________________
_____________=0A>=0A>From:"wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>=0A>To
: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)> =0A>S
ent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM=0A>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:
#2 Welding Cable=0A>=C2-=0A>Hello Eric,=0A>This may be a "loose canon" qu
estion..=0A>In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be
the same size [dia.]?=C2- Seems in reality, that there are less electron
s "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the=C2-allowance
=C2-for a smaller pipe! =0A>Thanks in advance,=0A>Mike W=0A>LNC2 360 buil
der forever =0A>PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
=0A>************=0A>=C2-=0A>>From:Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>
>To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28
AM=0A>>Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A>>=0A>>--> AeroE
lectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>>
=0A>>I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for ye
ars. Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters lov
e it too.=0A>>=0A>>Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame
retardant high tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insul
ation can be. Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the m
ilitary and others).=0A>>=0A>>All of these are designed for aircraft use bu
t find uses in balloons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight
is important.=0A>>=0A>>I will gladly send a free sample to interested build
ers. See attached.=0A>>=0A>>--------=0A>>Eric M. Jones=0A>>http://www.perih
eliondesign.com/=0A>>113 Brentwood Drive=0A>>Southbridge, MA 01550=0A>>(508
) 764-2072=0A>>emjones(at)charter.net=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this top
ic online here:=0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4033
88#403388=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Attachments: =0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matr
onics.com/files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf=0A>>_; =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralcontribution" ta
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>
=0A>>=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>ank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?AeroElectric-List">http://wt/; http://forums.matronics.co=/=0A>=C2-
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
AeroElectric-List=0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>http://www.matronics.co
=0A>=0A>
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 03:00:41 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)>
Kruschev's Law says: "Politicians are the same everywhere, they want to
build you a bridge when you have no river."
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Rob Housman <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com (rob(at)hyperion-ef.com)> wrote:
> It was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in engineering.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Best regards,****
>
> ** **
>
> Rob Housman****
>
> ** **
>
> Irvine, California****
>
> Europa XS****
>
> Rotax 914****
>
> S/N A070****
>
> Airframe complete****
>
> Avionics soon****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] *On Behalf Of *Henador
> Titzoff
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:51 AM
>
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
> *Subject:* Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable****
>
> ** **
>
> Mike,
>
> According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not
> true.
> ****
>
> Henador Titzoff****
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
> *To:* "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable****
>
> ** **
>
> Hello Eric,****
>
> This may be a "loose canon" question..****
>
> In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same
> size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back
> to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
> ****
>
> Thanks in advance,****
>
> Mike W****
>
> LNC2 360 builder forever ****
>
> PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items. ****
>
> ****************
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
> *Subject:* Re: #2 Welding Cable****
>
>
> emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
>
> I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years.
> Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it
> too.
>
> Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high
> tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be.
> Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and
> others).
>
> All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons,
> racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
>
> I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> [url=tel:%28508%29%20764-2072](508) 764-2072[/url]
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp;
> ums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/<http://forums.matronics.com/files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf>
> _; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *ank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://wt; http://www.matronics.com/contrib=============== <http://forums.matronics.co=>*
>
> * <http://forums.matronics.co=>*
>
> *
>
>
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>
> * <http://forums.matronics.co=>*
>
> * <http://forums.matronics.co=>*
>
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> * <http://forums.matronics.co=>*
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> * <http://forums.matronics.co=>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List <http://forums.matronics.co=>*
>
> **
>
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>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
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> *[url=http://www.matronics.com/contribution*]http://www.matronics.com/contribution*[/url]
>
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>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 03:31:16 PM PST US
From: =?utf-8?B?am9obi5tYWNjYWxsdW1AYmlncG9uZC5jb20=?= <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com (john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com)>
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0OiBSZTogIzIgV2VsZGluZyBDYWJsZQ==?
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Pi0tLS0tLS0tCj5FcmljIE0uIEpvbmVzCj53d3cuUGVyaWhlbGlvbkRlc2lnbi5jb20KPjExMyBC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________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 04:15:19 PM PST US
From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)>
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEFlcm9FbGVjdHJpYy1MaXN0OiDvu79SZTogQWVyb0VsZWN0cmljLUxp?=
=?utf-8?B?c3Q6IFJlOiAjMiBXZWxkaW5nIENhYmxl?
John, actually it's Kirchoff's voltage and current laws.=C2- He formulate
d them in 1845, which is way back before we had EE decrees.=0A=0AWhen I arr
ived on the crypto scene in 1969, the old timers had been calling them Khru
shchev's voltage and current laws as a JOKE.=C2- Do you guys get it?=C2
- Both names start with a K and kinda sound alike unless you're German or
Russian.=C2- Then they don't.=0A=C2-=0A=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0A From: "john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com (john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com)" <john.ma
ccallum(at)bigpond.com (ccallum(at)bigpond.com)>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) =0ASent: Tuesday
, June 25, 2013 6:30 PM=0ASubject: =EF=BBRe: AeroElec
tric-List: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AKirchoffs law I think you mean.
The sum of the current flowing into a node is equal to the sum of the curr
ent flowing out of a node. Or in other words you need the same size cables.
=0ACheers =0AJohn MacCallum=0A=0ASent from my HTC One XL on the Telstra 4G
network=0A=0A=0A----- Reply message -----=0AFrom: "Henador Titzoff" <henado
r_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (r_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)>=0ATo: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-
list(at)matronics.com (list(at)matronics.com)>=0ASubject: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0ADa
te: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 01:51=0A=0A=0AMike,=0A=0AAccording to Krucshev's curr
ent and voltage law, what you say below is not true.=0A=C2-=0A=0AHenador
Titzoff=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "wynaire(at)citlink.n
et" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>=0ATo: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelec
tric-list(at)matronics.com (tric-list(at)matronics.com)> =0ASent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM=0ASubject:
Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A=0A=0A=0AHello Eric,=0AThis
may be a "loose canon" question..=0AIn a glass/plastic aircraft, do both po
larity cables need to be the same size [dia.]?=C2- Seems in reality, that
there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., h
ence the=C2-allowance=C2-for a smaller pipe! =0AThanks in advance,=0AMi
ke W=0ALNC2 360 builder forever =0APS: Your heavy cabling is on my list o
f must have items. =0A************=0A=0A=0AFrom: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)cha
aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com) =0A>Sent: Tuesday, June 25
, 2013 6:28 AM=0A>Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A> =0A>
er.net>=0A>=0A>I've been selling=0ACopper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several
sizes for years. Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel d
ragsters love it too.=0A>=0A>Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a V
W-1 flame retardant high tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent a
s an insulation can be. Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-
8 to the military and others).=0A>=0A>All of these are designed for aircraf
t use but find uses in balloons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where
weight is important.=0A>=0A>I will gladly send a free sample to interested
builders. See attached.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Eric M. Jones=0A>www.Perihelion
Design.com=0A>113 Brentwood Drive=0A>Southbridge, MA 01550=0A>(508) 764-207
2=0A>emjones(at)charter.net=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:
=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>Attachments: =0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_
cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElect
bsp; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=0Aums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">ht
tp://forums.matronics.com/=0A>_; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.m
atron======
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 04:46:36 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Re: AeroElectric-List:
Re: #2 Welding Cable
From: Bill <wtrooper(at)gmail.com (wtrooper(at)gmail.com)>
Hey Henador -
Good joke - too much damage control but I get it now (I am also prepared to
accept "EE decrees" as another joke . . ?).
All is well -
Bill
SF bay area
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Henador Titzoff
<henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)>wrote:
> John, actually it's Kirchoff's voltage and current laws. He formulated
> them in 1845, which is way back before we had EE decrees.
>
> When I arrived on the crypto scene in 1969, the old timers had been
> calling them Khrushchev's voltage and current laws as a JOKE. Do you guy
s
> get it? Both names start with a K and kinda sound alike unless you're
> German or Russian. Then they don't.
>
> Henador Titzoff
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com (john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com)" <john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com (john.maccallum(at)bigpond.com)>
> *To:* aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:30 PM
> *Subject:* =EF=BBRe: Re: #2 Weld
ing Cable
>
> Kirchoffs law I think you mean. The sum of the current flowing into a nod
e
> is equal to the sum of the current flowing out of a node. Or in other wor
ds
> you need the same size cables.
> Cheers
> John MacCallum
>
> Sent from my HTC One XL on the Telstra 4G network
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Henador Titzoff" <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)>
> To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
> Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
> Date: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 01:51
>
>
> Mike,
>
> According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is no
t
> true.
>
>
> Henador Titzoff
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
> To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
>
>
> Hello Eric,
> This may be a "loose canon" question..
> In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same
> size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming bac
k
> to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe
!
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike W
> LNC2 360 builder forever
> PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
> ************
>
>
> From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
> >To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
> >Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
> >Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
> >
> >
> emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
> >
> >I've been selling
> Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many many happy
> users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.
> >
> >Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high
> tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be.
> Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and
> others).
> >
> >All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons,
> racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
> >
> >I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
> >
> >--------
> >Eric M. Jones
> >www.PerihelionDesign.com
> >113 Brentwood Drive
> >Southbridge, MA 01550
> >(508) 764-2072
> >emjones(at)charter.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Attachments:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp;
> ums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/
> >_; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">
> http://www.matron======
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 06:38:57 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
From: Neal George <neal.george(at)gmail.com (neal.george(at)gmail.com)>
Wasn't Krucshev the guy with the shoe...?
Neal George
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2013, at 1:57 PM, "Rob Housman" <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com (rob(at)hyperion-ef.com)> wrote:
> It was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in engineering
.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
>
> Irvine, California
> Europa XS
> Rotax 914
> S/N A070
> Airframe complete
> Avionics soon
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelect ([email]owner-aeroelect[/email])
ric-list-server(at)matronics.com (ric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:51 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
> Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
>
> Mike,
>
> According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, what you say below is not
true.
>
> Henador Titzoff
> From: "wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)>
> To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
>
> Hello Eric,
> This may be a "loose canon" question..
> In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same s
ize [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to
the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe!
> Thanks in advance,
> Mike W
> LNC2 360 builder forever
> PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items.
> ************
>
> From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM
> Subject: Re: #2 Welding Cable
>
net>
>
> I've been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years.
Many many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it t
oo.
>
> Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant high tec
h polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can be. Super
-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military and others).
>
> All of these are designed for aircraft use but find uses in balloons, race
cars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is important.
>
> I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See attached.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectbsp; ums.matronics.com/" t
arget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com/
> _; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.
matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://
wt; http://www.matronics.com/contrib==============
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
=
=========
=
=========
=
=========
=
=========
>
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 07:37:23 PM PST US
From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com (henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
Yes, Neal, everybody thought Krushchev was a heel, but he had a lot of sole
.=0A=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A Fr
om: Neal George <neal.george(at)gmail.com (neal.george(at)gmail.com)>=0ATo: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.
com" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)> =0ASent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:37
PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AWasn
't Krucshev the guy with the shoe...?=0A=0ANeal George=0ASent from my iPhon
e=0A=0AOn Jun 25, 2013, at 1:57 PM, "Rob Housman" <rob(at)hyperion-ef.com (rob(at)hyperion-ef.com)> wro
te:=0A=0A=0AIt was Kirchhoff's Law way back when I was an undergraduate in
engineering.=0A>-=0A>-=0A>Best regards,=0A>-=0A>Rob Housman=0A>-=0A
>Irvine, California=0A>Europa XS=0A>Rotax 914=0A>S/N A070=0A>Airframe compl
ete=0A>Avionics soon=0A>-=0A>From:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronic
owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of He
nador Titzoff=0A>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:51 AM=0A>To: aeroelectric-
list(at)matronics.com (list(at)matronics.com)=0A>Subject: Re: Re: #2 Welding Cable
=0A>-=0A>Mike,=0A>=0A>According to Krucshev's current and voltage law, wh
at you say below is not true.=0A>-=0A>Henador Titzoff=0A>=0A>____________
____________________=0A>=0A>From:"wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)" <wynaire(at)citlink.net (wynaire(at)citlink.net)
>=0A>To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
> =0A>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 1:07 PM=0A>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-Lis
t: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A>-=0A>Hello Eric,=0A>This may be a "loose canon
" question..=0A>In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need t
o be the same size [dia.]?- Seems in reality, that there are less electro
ns "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the-allowance-
for a smaller pipe! =0A>Thanks in advance,=0A>Mike W=0A>LNC2 360 builder fo
rever =0A>PS: Your heavy cabling is on my list of must have items. =0A>**
**********=0A>-=0A>>From:Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>>To: aero
electric-list(at)matronics.com (electric-list(at)matronics.com) =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:28 AM=0A>>S
ubject: Re: #2 Welding Cable=0A>>=0A>>--> AeroElectric-L
ist message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>=0A>>=0A>>I've
been selling Copper-clad-aluminum Fatwire in several sizes for years. Many
many happy users on the Aeroelectric LIst. Top fuel dragsters love it too.
=0A>>=0A>>Sizes Super-2-CCA and Super-4-CCA both use a VW-1 flame retardant
high tech polyester insulation which is as benevolent as an insulation can
be. Super-8 uses a TFE "Tefzel" copy (I sell the Super-8 to the military a
nd others).=0A>>=0A>>All of these are designed for aircraft use but find us
es in balloons, racecars, helicopters, drones, etc., where weight is import
ant.=0A>>=0A>>I will gladly send a free sample to interested builders. See
attached.=0A>>=0A>>--------=0A>>Eric M. Jones=0A>>www.PerihelionDesign.com
=0A>>113 Brentwood Drive=0A>>Southbridge, MA 01550=0A>>(508) 764-2072=0A>>e
mjones(at)charter.net=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic online here:
=0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403388#403388=0A>>
=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Attachments: =0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com//fil
es/copper_cables_aluminum_cables_727.pdf http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?AeroElectbsp; - - - - ums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http:/
/forums.matronics.com/=0A>>_; - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dra
lcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>
=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>-=0A>-=0A>ank" href="http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://wt; http://www.matronics.com/contrib
================0A>-=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>-
=0A>-=0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List=0A>http://f
orums.matronics.com=0A>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>-==
=========0Ast">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElect
ric-List=0A=====================
===============0Acs.com=0A=======
====0Amatronics.com/contribution=0A===========
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-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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wynaire(at)citlink.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:02 am Post subject: #2 Welding Cable |
|
|
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Yours [and the others'] answers did settle a long-nagging point [kinda' like a turn-to-downwind and stall... ]. It is great the way others chime-in. Humbling actually, especially if [every once in a while] when you begin to think you know it all, you find out the opposite, and keep on learning.
Cpaciebo. [Thx in Russian].
Mike
**********
[quote]
From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 11:33 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: #2 Welding Cable
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>
| Quote: | ...This may be a "loose cannon" question...In a glass/plastic aircraft, do both polarity cables need to be the same size [dia.]? Seems in reality, that there are less electrons "coming back to the battery" than going out..., hence the allowance for a smaller pipe! ...Mike W
|
What a wonderful question! In fact, there are exactly and precisely as many electrons returning as got sent out. Electrons don't go back to "battery rehab" for another trip. The true picture is far more complicated, and if you decided you wanted to know, you'd never finish your airplane.
In a metal airplane, letting the metal body carry the ground current is possible but not to be undertaken without some serious engineering work, and might change over time. Letting the metal tube frame carry the ground current likewise is problematic.
See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403408#403408
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electricity_385.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabbling_with_electrici - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -http://forums.matronics.com/< -Mats.com/contribution" =======
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