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Landing Light Aim

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email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:29 am Post subject: Landing Light Aim

This might be slightly off of the usual topic, but does anyone have

any tips for where to aim a landing light on a tailwheel airplane?  I

have the tools to align it with a vertical tilt of choice, but I don't

know what the best choice would be.  I can also include some measures

for adjustment, but I wonder how many degrees of adjustment I should

include.  Thanks in advance!

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:35 am Post subject: Landing Light Aim

Good Morning Jared,

  

 I would aim it so the light beam parallels the ground with the tail wheel  on the ground. Then go try it and adjust as needed!

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

  

 In a message dated 6/27/2013 11:30:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  email(at)jaredyates.com writes:

   	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jared Yates    <email(at)jaredyates.com>



This might be slightly off of the usual    topic, but does anyone have

any tips for where to aim a landing light on a    tailwheel airplane?  I

have the tools to align it with a vertical tilt    of choice, but I don't

know what the best choice would be.  I can also    include some measures

for adjustment, but I wonder how many degrees of    adjustment I should

include.  Thanks in  advance!

	


 [quote][b]

email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject: Landing Light Aim

Thanks Old Bob!



On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:34 PM,  <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Good Morning Jared,



 I would aim it so the light beam parallels the ground with the tail wheel on

 the ground. Then go try it and adjust as needed!



 Happy Skies,



 Old Bob



 In a message dated 6/27/2013 11:30:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

 email(at)jaredyates.com writes:



 



 This might be slightly off of the usual topic, but does anyone have

 any tips for where to aim a landing light on a tailwheel airplane?  I

 have the tools to align it with a vertical tilt of choice, but I don't

 know what the best choice would be.  I can also include some measures

 for adjustment, but I wonder how many degrees of adjustment I should

 include.  Thanks in advance!

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Landing Light Aim

You would think that DC3's or B17's must have had a way to do this. A brief search turned up nothing, but I am sure a more thorough search would find something applicable.



Sensing the angle of the airplane and adjusting the light automatically would seem tricky, but sensing the speed from the pitot and making an automatic adjustment, or putting a switch on the tail wheel might yield a system that is worth implementing.



But Keep It Simple. Remember that the main long-throw lights are used when the tail and airspeed is high. By the time the tail is on the ground, you might not need much.

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

mapratherid(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:01 am Post subject: Landing Light Aim

So, maybe the light could be aimed by tracking the pitch trim.  



Simpler and maybe even lighter to put two lights on the airplane?  One for taxi and one for landing.  You get a bit of redundancy too.  Old recipe for success.  Moving parts = yuck. 



Finally, I would have guessed aiming for landing attitude might be better, as once you're in three point attitude you're not covering ground nearly as fast so maybe don't need to see as far/well.  I do understand that your desire for visual acuity increases while close to the ground..

Cheers,



Matt-



On Jun 28, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 You would think that DC3's or B17's must have had a way to do this. A brief search turned up nothing, but I am sure a more thorough search would find something applicable.

 

 Sensing the angle of the airplane and adjusting the light automatically would seem tricky, but sensing the speed from the pitot and making an automatic adjustment, or putting a switch on the tail wheel might yield a system that is worth implementing.

 

 But Keep It Simple. Remember that the main long-throw lights are used when the tail and airspeed is high. By the time the tail is on the ground, you might not need much.

 

 --------

 Eric M. Jones

 www.PerihelionDesign.com

 113 Brentwood Drive

 Southbridge, MA 01550

 (508) 764-2072

 emjones(at)charter.net

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403564#403564

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:25 am Post subject: Landing Light Aim

I must say that I agree with "Old Bob" that the light should be adjusted for 

straight ahead with the tail on the ground.  If you adjust for straight 

ahead with the tail high you will be lighting the tree tops during taxi, 

which greatly decreases the utility of the light.  If the light is adjusted 

somewhat low, you will still be able to see the ground for both approach to 

landing and taxi.  This is not optimal for all phases of flight and taxi, 

but IMHO it's the best compromise for one solidly mounted light.



Roger 

--



Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:26 am Post subject: Landing Light Aim

Good Morning Eric, 

  

 Actually there were retractable landing lights which did provide the pilot  with the capability of adjusting the beam up or down, but the majority only had  one position where the light was on. 

  

 In my past, the only two airplanes I flew with the adjustable lights were  the Bamboo Bomber (Cessna Bob Cat) and the Douglas DC-6/7 series

  

  

 Both of those series' aircraft had one switch that extended or retracted  the light and it had a center position by which the light could be stopped.  They also had a separate on/off switch for the bulb itself. 

  

 Unfortunately. If you retracted the light and failed to turn it off it was  not noticeable from the cockpit unless you flew into a cloud where the blast of  light would make it obvious. The vast majority of retractable lights I have used  just went up or down. No stopping in between and the light came on shortly after  it vacated the housing and went off shortly after the retraction process was  initiated.  I suppose that a bit of rewiring could make any of them work  like our old DC-6/7 lights did. 

  

 The DC-3s that I flew had very nice fixed landing lights mounted in the  leading edge of the wings. Since I just flew for one company, I have no idea  whether other airlines had their airplanes differently equipped.

  

 One thing for sure, we tried to use the landing lights as little as  possible on the ground because they got too hot and would burn out the bulbs  prematurely. The fixed ones would also warp the plastic leading edge  cover if used on the ground.

  

 Landing lights were normally off for all taxiing. If the need arose, just a  short blast was used.

  

 Happy Skies 

  

 Old Bob

  

  In a message dated 6/28/2013 9:02:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  emjones(at)charter.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"    <emjones(at)charter.net>



You would think that DC3's or B17's must    have had a way to do this. A brief search turned up nothing, but I am sure a    more thorough search would find something applicable.



Sensing the angle    of the airplane and adjusting the light automatically would seem tricky, but    sensing the speed from the pitot and making an automatic adjustment, or    putting a switch on the tail wheel might yield a system that is worth    implementing.



But Keep It Simple. Remember that the main long-throw    lights are used when the tail and airspeed is high. By the time the tail is on    the ground, you might not need much.



--------

Eric M.    Jones

www.PerihelionDesign.com

113 Brentwood Drive

Southbridge, MA    01550

(508)  764-2072

emjones(at)charter.net

	


 [quote][b]

email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: Landing Light Aim

Thanks for the additional input everyone!  This particular application

won't have any provisions for in-flight adjustment, but the variation

in replies here has helped establish the range of ground adjustment

that I will provide for.



On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:25 PM,  <BobsV35B(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Good Morning Eric,



 Actually there were retractable landing lights which did provide the pilot

 with the capability of adjusting the beam up or down, but the majority only

 had one position where the light was on.



 In my past, the only two airplanes I flew with the adjustable lights were

 the Bamboo Bomber (Cessna Bob Cat) and the Douglas DC-6/7 series

 Both of those series' aircraft had one switch that extended or retracted the

 light and it had a center position by which the light could be stopped. They

 also had a separate on/off switch for the bulb itself.



 Unfortunately. If you retracted the light and failed to turn it off it was

 not noticeable from the cockpit unless you flew into a cloud where the blast

 of light would make it obvious. The vast majority of retractable lights I

 have used just went up or down. No stopping in between and the light came on

 shortly after it vacated the housing and went off shortly after the

 retraction process was initiated.  I suppose that a bit of rewiring could

 make any of them work like our old DC-6/7 lights did.



 The DC-3s that I flew had very nice fixed landing lights mounted in the

 leading edge of the wings. Since I just flew for one company, I have no idea

 whether other airlines had their airplanes differently equipped.



 One thing for sure, we tried to use the landing lights as little as possible

 on the ground because they got too hot and would burn out the bulbs

 prematurely. The fixed ones would also warp the plastic leading edge cover

 if used on the ground.



 Landing lights were normally off for all taxiing. If the need arose, just a

 short blast was used.



 Happy Skies



 Old Bob



 In a message dated 6/28/2013 9:02:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

 emjones(at)charter.net writes:



 

 <emjones(at)charter.net>



 You would think that DC3's or B17's must have had a way to do this. A brief

 search turned up nothing, but I am sure a more thorough search would find

 something applicable.



 Sensing the angle of the airplane and adjusting the light automatically

 would seem tricky, but sensing the speed from the pitot and making an

 automatic adjustment, or putting a switch on the tail wheel might yield a

 system that is worth implementing.



 But Keep It Simple. Remember that the main long-throw lights are used when

 the tail and airspeed is high. By the time the tail is on the ground, you

 might not need much.



 --------

 Eric M. Jones

 www.PerihelionDesign.com

 113 Brentwood Drive

 Southbridge, MA 01550

 (508) 764-2072

 emjones(at)charter.net

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: Landing Light Aim

At 08:06 PM 6/28/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks for the additional input everyone!  This particular application

won't have any provisions for in-flight adjustment, but the variation

in replies here has helped establish the range of ground adjustment

that I will provide for.


	


   Given the low cost, small size and low energy requirements,

   have you considered separate landing and taxi lights. Even

   the trikes often have separate lamps.



   Bob . . .

email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: Landing Light Aim

I'm a little to far into the integration to use two on this project.

I'm not planning to fly at night very often, so the benefit side of

the cost/benefit is fairly low starting out.



On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III

<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



 At 08:06 PM 6/28/2013, you wrote:

>

> 

> <email(at)jaredyates.com>

>

> Thanks for the additional input everyone!  This particular application

> won't have any provisions for in-flight adjustment, but the variation

> in replies here has helped establish the range of ground adjustment

> that I will provide for.

   Given the low cost, small size and low energy requirements,

   have you considered separate landing and taxi lights. Even

   the trikes often have separate lamps.



   Bob . . .

fly4grins(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:50 am Post subject: Landing Light Aim

The old:



Hi Eric et al- On the (tailwheel) PV-2, the Grimes retractable landing lights are very versatile.  The basic unit and it's components can be wired a variety of ways, but in this example a three position switch controls lamp movement at will through it's entire range of ops.  Limit switches stop the motor at either end of the travel, with 'up' being fully retracted and 'down' being in a perfect position for use as a landing light.  On the ground, the lamp can be motored to any position desired for taxi.  Another switch in the assembly turns the lamp on or off as it passes the retracted plus 15 degrees position.  A separate switch in the cockpit can be used to extinguish the lamps if req'd.  Footnote:  the bomb bay lights were wired through the squat switch...  one can only imagine how that came about!  Also, I believe that basic landing light ass'y was used right up through the DC-9.

 



The new:  

Hi Matt et al-  Although not yet flying (someday...), I have a light in each wing, one to be aimed for taxi the other aimed for landing, and both for redundancy and collision avoidance, including one of Eric's wig-wags.  With any luck, there will be some overlap and each will suffice for the other should the need arise.

 

  [quote][b]

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:51 am Post subject: Landing Light Aim

I've been operating off a rather dimly       lit grass strip for 15 years or so.  First with a tailwheel Maule       (hundreds of landings) then an RV10 (1 dozen night ops).  Some       observations:

                The Maule's incandescent wing mounted landing light was           aimed roughly so that the landing area was lit when on a           'normal' short final.  I never adjusted it.         
During landing, the runway lights provide most of the visual           information. 

                  
 The Maule's lights provided confirmation that there was a           ground surface in the black hole and a quick view of any major           obstructions just before rounding out.         
I never saw the deer.         
The Maule's light was on the left wing.         
An additional light on the right wing I'm guessing would be           somewhat useful on short final (see deer strike by right           wheel) but of little use during taxi.         
During taxi, the light mainly lit up the trees.  If I didn't           live here, I wouldn't be able to taxi safely here.         
A nose mounted light aimed for taxi might be very useful on           a dark, rough strip.         
The pair of wing mounted HID landing lights on the '10 is           what I should have had on the Maule.  I would have aimed the           left one for taxi and the right for the trees.  Or just           swapped out the incandescent unit for an HID unit.

                       Bill "lit grass with 100LL and JetA seems like heaven" Watson

       

       On 6/28/2013 12:00 PM, mapratherid wrote:

     

     [quote]        	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mapratherid <mapratherid(at)gmail.com> (mapratherid(at)gmail.com)



So, maybe the light could be aimed by tracking the pitch trim.  



Simpler and maybe even lighter to put two lights on the airplane?  One for taxi and one for landing.  You get a bit of redundancy too.  Old recipe for success.  Moving parts = yuck. 



Finally, I would have guessed aiming for landing attitude might be better, as once you're in three point attitude you're not covering ground nearly as fast so maybe don't need to see as far/well.  I do understand that your desire for visual acuity increases while close to the ground..

Cheers,



Matt-



On Jun 28, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> (emjones(at)charter.net) wrote:



          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> (emjones(at)charter.net)



You would think that DC3's or B17's must have had a way to do this. A brief search turned up nothing, but I am sure a more thorough search would find something applicable.



Sensing the angle of the airplane and adjusting the light automatically would seem tricky, but sensing the speed from the pitot and making an automatic adjustment, or putting a switch on the tail wheel might yield a system that is worth implementing.



But Keep It Simple. Remember that the main long-throw lights are used when the tail and airspeed is high. By the time the tail is on the ground, you might not need much.



--------

Eric M. Jones

www.PerihelionDesign.com

113 Brentwood Drive

Southbridge, MA 01550

(508) 764-2072

emjones(at)charter.net





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403564#403564





	
       

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