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richvetterli(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: Aileron trim (or not) |
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Listers,
Instead of using the electric trim tab on the aileron
of my XL, I’m planning on installing a modified
version of the Van’s spring trim on the stick. Very
K.I.S.S. It will be similar to the “Bungee Trim”
found on the “www.ch601.org” web site, however, I’m
going to use the Ray Allen servo that came with my
trim tab kit to control the tension of the springs
(also similar to the Van’s electric/spring trim).
Does anyone see any safety or hazard problems with
this set-up? Also, any scratch builder that wants a
completed trim tab with horn, hinge and channel, get
in touch with me off list and make an offer.
Thanks,
Rich Vetterli
XL/Corvair
Working on wings
Check it out at www.geocities.com/stixx5a
__________________________________________________
protection around
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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: Aileron trim (or not) |
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I spent many happy hours flying a Cessna Hawk XP with bungee rudder
trim. The bungee system was the only thing about this wonderful
airplane that seemed to create problems. I felt it didn't do a good
job and was an after thought (normally powered C-172's don't need
rudder trim, but the huge engine in the XP makes it necessary.
I am not sure this experience translates to a Zodiac, but I opted for
the electric trim properly installed in the aileron. I suspect this
will function much better than the bungee system. I didn't find it
at all difficult to install, and it could probably even be installed
as an afterthought with the aileron already mounted to the wing. The
only really challenging part would be drilling the hole for the
electric cable exit from the aileron.
Paul
| Quote: | Instead of using the electric trim tab on the aileron
of my XL, I'm planning on installing a modified
version of the Van's spring trim on the stick. Very
K.I.S.S. It will be similar to the "Bungee Trim"
found on the "www.ch601.org" web site, however, I'm
going to use the Ray Allen servo that came with my
trim tab kit to control the tension of the springs
(also similar to the Van's electric/spring trim).
Does anyone see any safety or hazard problems with
this set-up?
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noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: Aileron trim (or not) |
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I must be missing something here... You have a problem with the rudder trim
and you put a tab on the aileron??? Why not put a fixed tab on the rudder??
Noel
[quote] --
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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: Aileron trim (or not) |
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Sorry for the confusion. There are two different airplanes involved
in this discussion.
The bungee rudder trim was on the Cessna. The aileron trim is
installed on my Zodiac XL.
I used the Cessna example to point out that, in my experience, bungee
trim is not a desirable choice compared to good old fashioned trim tabs.
Paul
XL wings
do not archive
At 06:51 PM 6/12/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | I must be missing something here... You have a problem with the rudder trim
and you put a tab on the aileron??? Why not put a fixed tab on the rudder??
Noel
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noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: Aileron trim (or not) |
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Now I C said the blind man....
I agree the less fangdangling around the controls the better. With the
tabs once set up there is nothing to tangle or jam or even just get in the
way.
Noel
[quote] --
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dredmoody(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: Aileron trim (or not) |
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| Quote: | Now I C said the blind man....
I agree the less fangdangling around the controls the better. With the
tabs once set up there is nothing to tangle or jam or even just get in the
way.
Noel
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Not exactly...... you are considering building and flying a plane which may or may not have a 200 pound or so passenger in the right seat. Add to that the unavoidable fact that as you fly, you will burn fuel out of one wing tank then the other. Even if you choose the standard wing tanks, that fuel (12 gallons) weighs72 pounds.... and it's not in the fuselage in the right seat like the passenger, it's out there in the wing with a larger moment arm off center.
You might say that you will switch back and forth from one tank to the other while flying to minimize this shift in balance but that isn't the best choice either. You really want to keep one tank as full as practical enroute so that you can switch to it on approach. That gives you less chance of sucking air if you have to accelerate on a go-around. That may not be practical depending on your route and your rate of fuel burn but it's still a good idea.
Soap box session is now over. Reconsider inflight adjustable aileron trim for any Zodiac 601 model even if you choose to use a simple cable type design.
Ed Moody II
Rayne, LA
601XL / wings
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: Aileron trim (or not) |
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If I were building a Zodiac today I would add aileron trim.
As to the comment about keeping a fuel tank nearly full...I would
suggest that rather depends on your fuel system design. If you use an
electric fuel pump in each wing root then it does not matter whether you
suck air on one side or not as the engine will continue to run. Not sure
I have ever got my fuel this low but it is nice to know the fuel system
can tolerate a huge slip with nearly empty tanks on final.
Frank
HDS 400 hours
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N601RT
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron trim (or not) |
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Rich,
I used an RV-6 aileron trim kit (AIL-T6 from http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1150222747-272-15&browse=airframe&product=ail-tx) in N601RT.
In the RV-6, the control handle mounts between the pilots. The control handle is welded to a tube with similar flat extension welded to the other end of the tube and extending the opposite direction. The second flat extension is the “bottom” of the control part. The tube mounts in a hole in a delrin (or similar plastic) piece with a slot that allows tightening the with a bolt. (Similar to the tension adjuster for the Zenair throttle.) Springs go from the end of the bottom extension to the lowest end of each control stick.
In N601RT, I mounted the control handle in the spar centrally under the left seat, with the control handle pointing up. I ran a spring from the bottom flat to the lowest end of the control stick and then ran another spring from the lowest end of the control stick to a mounting bolt centrally located in the spar under the right seat. Push the control handle left to bias a left roll, push it right to bias a right roll. The RV6 springs are not strong enough in my installation for the trim adjustment to have enough effect. I’ll double the spring tension at some point.
Two additional notes: 1) When getting in N601RT I have to be careful not to snag my pant leg on the trim control handle. 2) I also bought a AIL-T34 for an RV-3 or RV-4 which mounts on the control stick, but could not figure out how to make it work.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, Arplast PV-50, All electric, IFR equipped, 535hrs, 640 landings
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