Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

PCB Mfg board house

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: PCB Mfg board house

I recently designed a circuit board using Cadsoft Eagle.  The program is not intuitive and requires reading the directions or watching YouTube tutorials.  Even after learning the program, if not used regularly, it is soon forgotten and requires watching the tutorial over again.  I could have saved many hours by using ExpressPCB which is very easy to learn.  But I wanted to be able to use a more competitive PCB board house.  I sent my design to Elecrow in Hong Kong and they made 5 boards 10 x 10 cm for $23 delivered.  The boards are beautiful and exactly like I ordered, including my mistakes.    The only disadvantage is that it took a whole month from the time I ordered the boards until they arrived in the mail.

Joe

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Joe Gores

edpav8r(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: PCB Mfg board house

Joe,



I agree with you re ExpressPCB, PCB123, and similar services.  Their software isn't anywhere near as competent as a commercial CAD package, your files are locked into a format that's not portable, and you can only order boards from their overpriced fab service.



I tried Eagle some years ago and found its interface impenetrable.  I switched to DipTrace and have never looked back.  I found it much easier and more intuitive to learn.



Take the time to set up the design rules for your board fab in DipTrace, and turn on real-time Design Rules Checking.  It will instantly show you if trace spacing is too close, you have unconnected or cross-connected nets, etc.  This reduces board errors to zero (unless your source schematic contains errors, of course).



Click "Buy" then "Non-Profit" to get a free license.  The site also has a nice video guided tour and PDF tutorial document.



     http://www.diptrace.com/



For prototype or small run PCBs, I use OSH Park.  They charge $5 per square inch for three copies of your board, made in the USA, with free USPS First Class Mail shipping.  I've put dozens of orders through their system and been very pleased.  I had one order a year or so ago that had a manufacturing error in one of the three boards, but they emailed to notify me before the boards even arrived.  It made no difference, as I only needed one board.  The only time I use a Chinese fab is if I need 2-ounce copper, which is very costly from domestic fabs.



If you continue using Eagle, you can just upload your .BRD file to OSH Park.  With any other CAD package, you just upload a .ZIP containing your Gerber files.  The website shows you a rendering of what your board will look like, then you can order.  It's a very slick system.  Boards typically arrive in less than two weeks.



     http://www.oshpark.com/



If you do surface mount designs and want to simplify assembly by using a solder paste stencil, you can get them for very reasonable prices at OSH Stencils.  Like OSH Park, you just upload a .ZIP containing your board outline and top paste Gerbers, and the site shows you a picture of your stencil before you order.  My last order for two stencils was produced the day after I ordered and arrived in about four days.



     http://www.oshstencils.com/



Eric

On Feb 18, 2014, at 8:51 PM, "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I recently designed a circuit board using Cadsoft Eagle.  The program is not intuitive and requires reading the directions or watching YouTube tutorials.  Even after learning the program, if not used regularly, it is soon forgotten and requires watching the tutorial over again.  I could have saved many hours by using ExpressPCB which is very easy to learn.  But I wanted to be able to use a more competitive PCB board house.  I sent my design to Elecrow in Hong Kong and they made 5 boards 10 x 10 cm for $23 delivered.  The boards are beautiful and exactly like I ordered, including my mistakes.    The only disadvantage is that it took a whole month from the time I ordered the boards until they arrived in the mail.

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: PCB Mfg board house

Eric,

Thanks for that information.

Joe

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Joe Gores

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: Re: PCB Mfg board house

My two cents:



Eagle is a great program compared to many PCB design programs. It comes in several versions. It would be my first choice for boards that need autorouting. It's probably worth reviewing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EAGLE_(program)



I use www.ExpressPCB.com exclusively now, since my PCBs are the size of postage stamps. Their great advantages are:



1) Lightning fast delivery. I can finish a design Tuesday am and get the PCBs Friday am.

2) Stunning easy to learn. The learning curve is a "One Cup of Coffee to Expert" experience.

3) Schematic Capture and Layout modules are FREE. 



And yes, they will send you the Gerbers for a reasonable charge after your first order (I think).

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:25 am Post subject: PCB Mfg board house

At 09:07 AM 2/19/2014, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



My two cents:

I use www.ExpressPCB.com exclusively now, since my PCBs are the size 
	


of postage stamps. Their great advantages are:



1) Lightning fast delivery. I can finish a design Tuesday am and get 

the PCBs Friday am.

2) Stunning easy to learn. The learning curve is a "One Cup of Coffee 

to Expert" experience.

3) Schematic Capture and Layout modules are FREE.



   I will echo Eric's sentiments. For the kinds of things

   I do, time is often of the essence. I submitted an order

   for proof of concept boards to Exp-PCB yesterday morning,

   will have boards tomorrow morning and assembled samples

   in my customer's hands Friday morning (or even late

   tomorrow night if they so wish) . . . even tho I live

   in cow-town KS . . .



   The software is stunningly easy to learn, custom

   components easily crafted, turn-around times difficult

   to better. Their software also spits out .dxf files

   of the board with holes and parts locations so that

   creating an assembly drawing in any dxf friendly

   cad program is greatly assisted.



   Had one customer voice some amazement that holes

   in the board I provided "lined up exactly" with

   CAD/CNC holes in his target assembly. Don't know

   where his previous disappointments came from but

   the transitions from Exp-PCB -> cad -> g-code ->

   aluminum are in solid lock-step with each other.



   When you're charging my exorbitant fees for $time$,

   the external costs for materials and services are

   relatively insignificant. Most customers are interested

   in shortest path to workable solutions. I think there

   may be some services on a par with Exp-PCB but I've

   used Exp-PCB for many years with no note-worthy

   incentives to change.





   Bob . . .

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: PCB Mfg board house

On 2/19/2014 10:24 AM, Robert L.       Nuckolls, III wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.       Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)       

       

       At 09:07 AM 2/19/2014, you wrote:       

        	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted         by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net> (emjones(at)charter.net)         

         

         My two cents:         

       	
       I use www.ExpressPCB.com exclusively now, since my PCBs are the       size of postage stamps. Their great advantages are:       

       

       2) Stunning easy to learn. The learning curve is a "One Cup of       Coffee to Expert" experience.       

       

         The software is stunningly easy to learn, custom       

         components easily crafted, turn-around times difficult       

         to better. 

     	
     On a somewhat unrelated note, the ExpressSCH software (free) is an     excellent tool for documenting aircraft electrical diagrams if one     does not already have skills with an appropriate drawing tool.      Though intended for use in designing custom circuit boards, it     adapts well to the task of drawing electrical diagrams for your     project.  Since it 'knows' circuits, it works in a way that is     compatible with generalized electrical diagram documentation.  Not     as good as Autocad/Turbocad but much easier to learn for this simple     task.  I can pick it up after 6 months to make a change and am able     to use it without relearning anything.  As Bob said above, "Stunning     easy to learn".   Great for 'one time use'.

     

     Thanks to whoever originally suggested this.

     

     Here's my Z-14 drawn using ExpressSCH

     Z-14       for RV10

     

     (ExpressSCH is one of the two components of the ExpressPCB package.      You only need the ExpressSCH to draw diagrams for your aircraft.

      [quote][b]

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum