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Alternator/regulator

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gburdett1(at)frontier.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: Alternator/regulator

I have a JD/yanmar PM alternator and regulator with crowbar circuit. Voltage was starting to run over 15 volts at cruise rpms. Replaced battery and regulator, now hits 15.5 volts at anything over 2400 rpms on first test with a fully charged battery..????



Sent from my iPad

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: Alternator/regulator

At 15:34 2015-01-19, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I have a JD/yanmar PM alternator and regulator with crowbar circuit. 

Voltage was starting to run over 15 volts at cruise rpms. Replaced 

battery and regulator, now hits 15.5 volts at anything over 2400 

rpms on first test with a fully charged battery..????


	




    Regulator is not properly adjusted for maintaining

    a lead-acid battery. Unfortunately, most of the

    off-the-shelf regulators for pm alternators do not

    offer user adjustments.



    Finding a drop-in replacement with friendlier

    performance is about your only option. Your

    problem is not uncommon and the folks who design,

    manufacture and market these products seem oblivious

    to the disservice they impose on their customers.

   Bob . . .

gburdett1(at)frontier.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:08 am Post subject: Alternator/regulator

Thanks Bob, 

I have an odyssey 680 cell and the first regulator ran ok for about 75 hours and two years. I checked B&C and they do not recommend using their regulator with an 18-20 amp pm alternator. 

Oddly enough, about 10 hours ago, I switched to a rear alt setup on a Corvair which meant the alt would spin a lot slower than the belt setup  so  it doesn't start getting up to voltage until about 15-1800 rpms. If there is nothing else to check,I will look for a higher quality regulator,maybe ,motorcycle . If you know of good ones.....

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 20, 2015, at 8:08 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 At 15:34 2015-01-19, you wrote:

> 

> 

> I have a JD/yanmar PM alternator and regulator with crowbar circuit. Voltage was starting to run over 15 volts at cruise rpms. Replaced battery and regulator, now hits 15.5 volts at anything over 2400 rpms on first test with a fully charged battery..????

   Regulator is not properly adjusted for maintaining

   a lead-acid battery. Unfortunately, most of the

   off-the-shelf regulators for pm alternators do not

   offer user adjustments.

   Finding a drop-in replacement with friendlier

   performance is about your only option. Your

   problem is not uncommon and the folks who design,

   manufacture and market these products seem oblivious

   to the disservice they impose on their customers.

  Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Alternator/regulator

Measure the voltage between the regulator case and regulator voltage-sense-input terminal.  If that voltage is at the desired set-point, then the regulator is doing its job and is not defective.  And if that measured voltage is at the desired set-point, but aircraft system voltage is much higher, then there is a bad connection someplace between the alternator output and the regulator input.  Possible trouble spots are wire terminals and alternator switch contacts.

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

gburdett1(at)frontier.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: Alternator/regulator

Thanks Joe, 

The input to,the regulator comes directly from the aircraft bus through a switch and breaker and the alternator feeds directly to the bus through the regulator and breaker. . The input is reading what the bus is reading  minus 2/10 volt due to resistance in circuit . This regulator has no adjustable set point. It is for a PM alternator. 



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 20, 2015, at 9:40 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Measure the voltage between the regulator case and regulator voltage-sense-input terminal.  If that voltage is at the desired set-point, then the regulator is doing its job and is not defective.  And if that measured voltage is at the desired set-point, but aircraft system voltage is much higher, then there is a bad connection someplace between the alternator output and the regulator input.  Possible trouble spots are wire terminals and alternator switch contacts.

 Joe

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437306#437306

gburdett1(at)frontier.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: Alternator/regulator

Follow up on pm alt regulator, adding about 5 amps of load brings the voltage down to 14.2 at WOT .My plane does not use a lot of electricity and normal running with radios and some low draw instruments pulls only a few amps. Maybe it's a heat dissipation issue although the regulator is on the firewall under the panel with good air flow around it and it's cool today. So , when weather breaks,a will try a flight with everything on. Since I don't need cabin lights all the time, maybe a 50 watt switched resistor across the bus may be a good addition.

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:50 AM, Gary Burdett <gburdett1(at)frontier.com> wrote:

 Thanks Joe, 

 The input to,the regulator comes directly from the aircraft bus through a switch and breaker and the alternator feeds directly to the bus through the regulator and breaker. . The input is reading what the bus is reading  minus 2/10 volt due to resistance in circuit . This regulator has no adjustable set point. It is for a PM alternator. 

 Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 20, 2015, at 9:40 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Measure the voltage between the regulator case and regulator voltage-sense-input terminal.  If that voltage is at the desired set-point, then the regulator is doing its job and is not defective.  And if that measured voltage is at the desired set-point, but aircraft system voltage is much higher, then there is a bad connection someplace between the alternator output and the regulator input.  Possible trouble spots are wire terminals and alternator switch contacts.

> Joe

> 

> --------

> Joe Gores

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437306#437306

kjashton(at)vnet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: Alternator/regulator

I see a lot of discussion on tractor and boat forums about the Yanmar alternator and its regulators, for example

http://ymowners.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1924



Try this search for a good bit of discussion:

https://www.google.com/search?q=yanmar+PM+alternator+voltage+regulator&biw=1531&bih=894&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=HrO-VN7ZCqOxsATijILgDg&ved=0CAUQ_AUoAA&dpr=1



Here is one disassembled

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=258762

-Kent



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 20, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Gary Burdett <gburdett1(at)frontier.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Thanks Bob, 

 I have an odyssey 680 cell and the first regulator ran ok for about 75 hours and two years. I checked B&C and they do not recommend using their regulator with an 18-20 amp pm alternator. 

 Oddly enough, about 10 hours ago, I switched to a rear alt setup on a Corvair which meant the alt would spin a lot slower than the belt setup  so  it doesn't start getting up to voltage until about 15-1800 rpms. If there is nothing else to check,I will look for a higher quality regulator,maybe ,motorcycle . If you know of good ones.....

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

> On Jan 20, 2015, at 8:08 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> At 15:34 2015-01-19, you wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> I have a JD/yanmar PM alternator and regulator with crowbar circuit. Voltage was starting to run over 15 volts at cruise rpms. Replaced battery and regulator, now hits 15.5 volts at anything over 2400 rpms on first test with a fully charged battery..????

> 

> 

>  Regulator is not properly adjusted for maintaining

>  a lead-acid battery. Unfortunately, most of the

>  off-the-shelf regulators for pm alternators do not

>  offer user adjustments.

> 

>  Finding a drop-in replacement with friendlier

>  performance is about your only option. Your

>  problem is not uncommon and the folks who design,

>  manufacture and market these products seem oblivious

>  to the disservice they impose on their customers.

> 

> 

> Bob . . . 

> 

> 

> 

>

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: Alternator/regulator

That seems strange to me.  Perhaps you meant +2/10 volts.

My PM J.Deere controls the voltage at the regulator output. ie the 

highest voltage in the system is at the regulator output lug. There is 

no separate voltage sense wire on my regulator. Perhaps the Yanmar does 

have one in which case you can trouble shoot much like for a 

conventional wound field regulator.

A 0.2 volt difference anywhere while charging lightly seems high to me 

but possible if the regulator is in fact not regulating and feeding many 

amps into the battery.  I assume you've verified the voltage with a 

handheld digital voltmeter to rule out a bad indication.

I would give the same advice that Joe did. FWIW the easiest way I've 

found to kill a J.Deere regulator is to start the engine without a 

battery connected (actually I had a completely dead AGM battery 

connected but it might as well have been disconnected) and yes the 

failure mode was maximum output with no regulation.  I encourage you to 

get this fixed properly and not mess with adding load to manually lower 

the voltage. These batteries do not like to be overcharged.

Ken

On 20/01/2015 12:50 PM, Gary Burdett wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Thanks Joe,

 The input to,the regulator comes directly from the aircraft bus through a switch and breaker and the alternator feeds directly to the bus through the regulator and breaker. . The input is reading what the bus is reading  minus 2/10 volt due to resistance in circuit . This regulator has no adjustable set point. It is for a PM alternator.

 Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 20, 2015, at 9:40 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Measure the voltage between the regulator case and regulator voltage-sense-input terminal.  If that voltage is at the desired set-point, then the regulator is doing its job and is not defective.  And if that measured voltage is at the desired set-point, but aircraft system voltage is much higher, then there is a bad connection someplace between the alternator output and the regulator input.  Possible trouble spots are wire terminals and alternator switch contacts.

> Joe

>

> --------

> Joe Gores

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437306#437306

>

>

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator/regulator

I agree with Ken that 2/10 volt drop seems high for a sense circuit that conducts very little current.  Try measuring the voltage drop across the switch and then across the breaker to determine exactly where the 2/10 volt is being dropped.  Also measure the voltage drop from the regulator case to ground, assuming the regulator is grounded through the case.

A jumper wire could be temporarily connected from the bus to the regulator input to see if the regulation improves.

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

gburdett1(at)frontier.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: Alternator/regulator

Joe  etal, 

The 2/10 was just the voltage difference between different points in the circuit with the master turned on, no alternator charging. Just to illustrate an insignificant difference around the circuit and that the power input to the reg, sensing, was the same as the bus. The system is working, as Bob said earlier, the lawn tractor regulators are not always crafted to the highest quality as they are made meet lawn tractor standards, not aviation ones. Nevertheless , I will keep a watch on the voltage carefully until I find a replacement, giving it a dummy load does work, just not a permanent fix. Thanks for the help.

Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:27 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I agree with Ken that 2/10 volt drop seems high for a sense circuit that conducts very little current.  Try measuring the voltage drop across the switch and then across the breaker to determine exactly where the 2/10 volt is being dropped.  Also measure the voltage drop from the regulator case to ground, assuming the regulator is grounded through the case.

 A jumper wire could be temporarily connected from the bus to the regulator input to see if the regulation improves.

 Joe

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437365#437365

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: Alternator/regulator

At 15:34 2015-01-19, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I have a JD/yanmar PM alternator and regulator with crowbar circuit. 

Voltage was starting to run over 15 volts at cruise rpms. Replaced 

battery and regulator, now hits 15.5 volts at anything over 2400 

rpms on first test with a fully charged battery..????


	




    Regulator is not properly adjusted for maintaining

    a lead-acid battery. Unfortunately, most of the

    off-the-shelf regulators for pm alternators do not

    offer user adjustments.



    Finding a drop-in replacement with friendlier

    performance is about your only option. Your

    problem is not uncommon and the folks who design,

    manufacture and market these products seem oblivious

    to the disservice they impose on their customers.

   Bob . . .

gburdett1(at)frontier.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:13 am Post subject: Alternator/regulator

Bob,

Thanks for the clarification . I think I jumped to confusion.



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 20, 2015, at 8:08 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 At 15:34 2015-01-19, you wrote:

> 

> 

> I have a JD/yanmar PM alternator and regulator with crowbar circuit. Voltage was starting to run over 15 volts at cruise rpms. Replaced battery and regulator, now hits 15.5 volts at anything over 2400 rpms on first test with a fully charged battery..????

 

 

   Regulator is not properly adjusted for maintaining

   a lead-acid battery. Unfortunately, most of the

   off-the-shelf regulators for pm alternators do not

   offer user adjustments.

 

   Finding a drop-in replacement with friendlier

   performance is about your only option. Your

   problem is not uncommon and the folks who design,

   manufacture and market these products seem oblivious

   to the disservice they impose on their customers.

 

 

  Bob . . .

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