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Best glide speed RV6A

 
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Charles Heathco



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H

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denis.walsh(at)comcast.ne
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. There are probably more.
In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle speed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of drag if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal with. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.

One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be different than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing with coarse pitch glides. I don’t think you can count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergency has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually not a good option.

I certainly don’t claim this is the best or the only way to practice, it’ s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thought i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..

I hope your shoulder heals soon.

Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)


Quote:
On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H

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Doug Gray



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best glide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine has a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended procedure this would be helpful too.
Doug Gray

Sent from my iPad

On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. There are probably more.
In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle speed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of drag if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal with. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.

One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be different than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing with coarse pitch glides. I don’t think you can count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios.  So I just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergency has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually not a good option.

I certainly don’t claim this is the best or the only way to practice, it’ s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thought i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..

I hope your shoulder heals soon.

Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)


Quote:
On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H

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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

I think best glide endurance and best glide range might be the same .... at least it is to me.
What I do is start 10 miles out from my airport at 5000 feet .... in still air if I can find it.  Pick an airspeed (I like 70 for the first try) and try to hold the airspeed steady.
I want to be over the airport at 1000 feet ..... pattern altitude for me ..... but record the altitude (or distance from the airport if short) you get and you can figure the glide ratio.  If you repeat the procedure for 65, 75, etc. you'll home in on the best glide ratio for your particular plane.  It's something to do while you're flying off those 20 or 40 hours in phase 1.
Linn

On 5/21/2015 9:54 PM, Doug Gray wrote:

[quote] When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best glide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine has a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended procedure this would be helpful too.
Doug Gray

Sent from my iPad

On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:


Quote:
Charlie, I have a  6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc.  There are probably more.
In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle speed.  I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K.  That leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of drag if windmilling.  This is what I practice with.  It gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite  different with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal with.  I always practice with  the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.

One can practice for the  zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be different than you practiced any way!  My opinion is the same about practicing with coarse pitch glides.  I don’t think you can count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios.  So I just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made then flare, add drag and land.  I figure if my emergency has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or side slip.  Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually not a good option.

I certainly don’t claim this is the best or the only way to practice, it’ s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A.  You would have thought i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..

I hope your shoulder heals soon.

Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)


Quote:
On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Interesting article in  Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experimented with determining that quite  bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in  late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final.  This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H 

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skylor4(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:35 pm    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

"Best glide" usually refers to best glide angle, i.e. the speed at which the aircraft will cover the most distance for a given amount of altitude loss in still air. In engine out situations, this is usually what we're interested in because we want to go the most distance possible with the amount of altitude that we have. I believe best glide angle typically coincides with the speed at which L/D is the greatest in still air.
Best endurance is the speed at which the rate of descent is minimum. This is useful for getting the most time possible for troubleshooting, but not necessarily traveling the greatest distance. Best endurance can occur at a significantly lower airspeed than best angle, so while the rate of descent may be minimized, less forward progress is made per unit time resulting in a steeper glide angle.

Skylor
Sent from my iPhone.

On May 21, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au (dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au)> wrote:
[quote]When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best glide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine has a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended procedure this would be helpful too.
Doug Gray

Sent from my iPad

On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. There are probably more.
In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle speed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of drag if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal with. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.

One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be different than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing with coarse pitch glides. I don’t think you can count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergency has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually not a good option.

I certainly don’t claim this is the best or the only way to practice, it’ s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thought i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..

I hope your shoulder heals soon.

Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)


Quote:
On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H

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Doug Gray



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:39 am    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

Skylor,
Yes that is as I recall, I think the best glide angle speed corresponds to the tangent intercept drawn from the origin on the ROD plot. I will need to check my books to confirm.
I need to figure out the best way to test these. Also I don't think I could have flown my aircraft anywhere near smoothly enough during phase 1 to have collected useful data.
Thanks,
Doug

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 May 2015, at 1:31 pm, Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com (skylor4(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]"Best glide" usually refers to best glide angle, i.e. the speed at which the aircraft will cover the most distance for a given amount of altitude loss in still air. In engine out situations, this is usually what we're interested in because we want to go the most distance possible with the amount of altitude that we have. I believe best glide angle typically coincides with the speed at which L/D is the greatest in still air.
Best endurance is the speed at which the rate of descent is minimum. This is useful for getting the most time possible for troubleshooting, but not necessarily traveling the greatest distance. Best endurance can occur at a significantly lower airspeed than best angle, so while the rate of descent may be minimized, less forward progress is made per unit time resulting in a steeper glide angle.

Skylor
Sent from my iPhone.

On May 21, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au (dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au)> wrote:
Quote:
When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best glide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine has a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended procedure this would be helpful too.
Doug Gray

Sent from my iPad

On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. There are probably more.
In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle speed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K.  That leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of drag if windmilling. This is what I practice with.  It gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal with. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.

One can practice for the zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be different than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing with coarse pitch glides. I don’t think you can count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergency has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually not a good option.

I certainly don’t claim this is the best or the only way to practice, it’ s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thought i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..

I hope your shoulder heals soon.

Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)


Quote:
On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H

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Dave Burnham



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Posts: 6
Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:19 am    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

Hi Charlie,
Look up CAFE foundation, they did a full review of the RV6 6A back in 1993.
Regards
Dave Burnham


On May 22, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au (dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au)> wrote:
[quote]
Skylor,
Yes that is as I recall, I think the best glide angle speed corresponds to the tangent intercept drawn from the origin on the ROD plot. I will need to check my books to confirm.
I need to figure out the best way to test these. Also I don't think I could have flown my aircraft anywhere near smoothly enough during phase 1 to have collected useful data.
Thanks,
Doug

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 May 2015, at 1:31 pm, Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com (skylor4(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
Quote:
"Best glide" usually refers to best glide angle, i.e. the speed at which the aircraft will cover the most distance for a given amount of altitude loss in still air. In engine out situations, this is usually what we're interested in because we want to go the most distance possible with the amount of altitude that we have. I believe best glide angle typically coincides with the speed at which L/D is the greatest in still air.
Best endurance is the speed at which the rate of descent is minimum. This is useful for getting the most time possible for troubleshooting, but not necessarily traveling the greatest distance. Best endurance can occur at a significantly lower airspeed than best angle, so while the rate of descent may be minimized, less forward progress is made per unit time resulting in a steeper glide angle.

Skylor
Sent from my iPhone.

On May 21, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au (dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au)> wrote:
Quote:
When discussing best glide I am never sure if we are talking about best glide endurance or best glide range. Which do we use?
I have never tested these on my RV-6 but intend to do so now the engine has a couple of hundred hours. If someone can point me to a recommended procedure this would be helpful too.
Doug Gray

Sent from my iPad

On 21 May 2015, at 9:18 am, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
Charlie, I have a 6A, and I agree with your ball park figure; however I would caution there are many variables: prop (cs or fixed), power status (stopped prop or windmill), airplane weight, Idle rpm of your engine, etc. There are probably more.
In my case I have an average weight 180hp with c/s prop and low idle speed. I use 80 to 90 knots for glide and across the fence 75K. That leaves a lot of speed to kill in the flare but I have a low idle speed and lots of drag if windmilling. This is what I practice with. It gives a rather steep glide and I am sure it would be quite different with a stopped prop or partial power, but I feel these would make for a better glide which I could deal with. I always practice with the prop in max RPM so I have max drag.

One can practice for the  zero thrust, min drag glide if you fiddle with the throttle to establish zero thrust, but I consider this to be too tough for me and of minimal value in an emergency which will almost certainly be different than you practiced any way! My opinion is the same about practicing with coarse pitch glides. I don’t think you can count on having enough oil pressure to go coarse pitch in many engine failure scenarios. So I just practice the worst case, with low pitch low rpm, and glide at 80-90, until the field is made then flare, add drag and land. I figure if my emergency has better glide angle than I have practiced, I can put the flaps down sooner or side slip. Coming up short on final is, on the other hand usually not a good option.

I certainly don’t claim this is the best or the only way to practice, it’ s just the way I do it, as you asked, based on a lot of practice over the past 18 years and 3100 hours in the 6A. You would have thought i would have worn it out by now but it is still going strong..

I hope your shoulder heals soon.

Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)


Quote:
On 20May, 2015, at 11:07, <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> <cheathco(at)cox.net (cheathco(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Interesting article in Flying mag (may) re dead stick landings. I experimented with determining that quite bit when I first got my 6A, based at LZU at the time. That was in late 04/early 05. I never felt I could absolutly put a number on it, but settled on 75/80 mph, pretty much speed on final. This article got me thinking about it again, but due to very recent rt shoulder surg, I will no be flying for a while. ( think I could manage everything exept flaps but getting in and especially back out may take a while). Anyway, would like to hear from 6A drivers what they would use for dead stick air speed? Charlie H

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ianxbrown



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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

Jack Dueck wrote a great article on testing your best glide speed. I've attached a copy.

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Best Glide Speed.pdf
 Description:
Courtesy of Jack Dueck, who also created a whole series of flight testing articles, published in EAA's Bits and Pieces. You can check the archive for some of his other articles.

Download
 Filename:  Best Glide Speed.pdf
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Doug Gray



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Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 am    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

Thanks, a useful article.
Doug

Sent from my iPad

Quote:
On 26 May 2015, at 11:51 am, ianxbrown <ixb(at)videotron.ca> wrote:



Jack Dueck wrote a great article on testing your best glide speed. I've attached a copy.




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442559#442559




Attachments:

http://forums.matronics.com//files/best_glide_speed_176.pdf









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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:52 am    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

On my RV-6 the rate of descent data indicated a maximum endurance true
airspeed of about 70 knots and maximum range of about 85 knots.

Warren

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drholling



Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

ianxbrown wrote:
Jack Dueck wrote a great article on testing your best glide speed. I've attached a copy.


Are there more articles like this from Jack? He referenced one about airspeed in this one. Would be nice to see other Flight Test Cards from him.

Dave


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

The CAFÉ foundation did a comprehensive flight review of the RV-6(a) in
1993. Here's the link:

http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf_cafe_apr/RV-6A%20Final%20APR.pdf

Basically, it says 70 knots for lowest sink, 92 knots for best glide ratio.


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Doug Gray



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Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Best glide speed RV6A Reply with quote

Kyle, thanks for this document. I think these will be more reliable figures than what I could measure & calculate even despite the difference in model. Mine being a 6.
I am reading through the doc for any clues on their methodology.
Doug

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On 27 May 2015, at 8:40 am, <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> wrote:



The CAFÉ foundation did a comprehensive flight review of the RV-6(a) in 1993. Here's the link:

http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf_cafe_apr/RV-6A%20Final%20APR.pdf

Basically, it says 70 knots for lowest sink, 92 knots for best glide ratio.






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